Hi,I am a PC gamer.
For long I was a console gamer,but recentely (2008) I decided to become a PC gamer after some unfortunate things happened to me with some consoles.
Anyway,lets get to the topic.
Lately I've been hearing lots of things from the mouths of game developers regarding PC gaming and PIRACY.
After a developer announces that their game will not be released for computers,when they are asked why their usual response is "
Pc gaming suffers from piracy and because of that I will not release my game to computers"
Is it right or wrong ?
We will find out later,what is certain is that such kind of words are surely offensive and dissapointing to people who buy original computer games,as they are punished by not being able to play a game and they are also called pirates.
There are some developers that are doing almost racistic discrimination to some gamers by having the logic "since 1 of you pirated my game,then all of you are pirates,so I don't trust any of you so I will not release my game"
That's frustrating if you ask me.
And then some developers come up with extreme ideas like demanding from pc gamers to have constant connection to internet so their computers will communicate with developer's servers each time someone want to play the game he bought,to authenticate if the game is original or not.
That's so punishing for us who pay our money to play your game,and we feel insulted by that behaviour.We don't want a "Big Brother" watching us every time we want to play the game we paid for.We are not criminals,and it's also boring to have to create accounts and login with passwords and stuff every time we want to play our game.

But is piracy something that only concerns pc gaming,and is it the only reason some games doesn't sell well on computers ?
IMO the answer is No.
Lets think about it with some examples.
Crysis was a game exclusive to computers,and EA said that it sold 3 million copies.
Three million people bought the game original for their computers.
Lets now compare the sales of a PC exclusive,to some console exclusives...
(all sales information are from Wikipedia)

Halo ODST: (xbox360) 3 million units (same)
God of War 3: (PS3) 1.46 million units (less)
Zelda Twilight Princess: (Wii) 4.46 million units (more)
Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe: (both xbox360 and PS3 sales combined) 1.6 million units (less)

I think we can see that there are also console exclusive games that sold as good as Crysis,or worse.
But nobody complains for piracy when a console game doesn't sell well while they do when it happens to computer games.
I didn't herd Midway saying that MKvsDCU sold only 1.6 million units because of piracy,but at the same time they say they will not release MK9 at PCs because of piracy.
So when a game sells bad at pc automatically it means that it's because of piracy ?
Nah,I don't think that's the case.
You see lately there is a trend that developers will release their games to pcs as rushed,unoptimized,buggy,broken console ports but these bad ported games doesn't sell well because they are so rushed that important parts that should be done for a game to work good at pcs are overlooked,delivering broken ports.
A nice example is Star Wars: Forced Unleashed for computers.
When a developer delivers a bad pc game and people doesn't buy it,it doesn't mean that pc gamers pirate these games but that they doesn't buy them because they s**k.
Honestely,I think Crysis is a good example that if a pc game is done well enough,it will sell.
There are computer gamers like me that are honest and buy original games IF we like them.
But it's at least rediculous when a developer says that they don't release their game because of piracy.
Low sales doesn't translate to piracy.
They can also mean bad execution of transfering a game to another platform. :spotted owl:

Let's share our opinions on this matter.


Disclaimer:
This thread is intended for polite conversation.
Don't bash consoles or computers,as this isn't the topic of this thread.
The point of this thread is to share opinions about myths,and foul developer behaviour.

If you can sell a product with no fear of theft, would you do it? Would you do it over selling a product with a higher probability of being stolen? Sure, it svcks. As a PC gamer, I feel the pressure. I've not bought games because of overly intrusive DRM and I've missed out on some great games not available on PC.

On the flip side, I've played some great PC only games. Crysis and countless flash games, MMO's etc. etc.

It's a double edged sword. Each platform has its ups and downs. I think the good of PC gaming outweighs the bad.

Dragon Age 2 Xbox version leaked first :teehee:

It's just an excuse, console games are just as pirated as PC games. May be a bit simpler for PC, but not rocket science on consoles either.

It seems to me that companies have a bad tendency to blame their games not selling as well as they should on piracy. Just look at how game companies keep coming out with more and more intrusive methods of DRM, but I think this is kind of a short-sighted approach, myself, for one thing, there could be other reasons why the game doesn't sell as well as the creators hope, like say... maybe it wasn't such a great game. Yet when they just blame it all on piracy rather than trying to anolyze the real cause of the problem, they might end up leaving the problem unsolved. Moreover, DRM generally does not stop piracy. games that use Steam or limited installs or whatever still get pirated, in fact, I heard that Spore, one game that was infamous for using very intrusive DRM, was even pirated before its official release. Now, this isn't to say that developers should just give up on copy protection entirely, but they should stop using DRM that not only fails to stop piracy, but also causes inconvenience to paying customers. I wonder if it ever occurred to companies that maybe some people are driven away by said intrusive DRM? Maybe some players who would have bought the game actually decided to pirate it because they don't want to support a company that's just going to treat them like criminals after taking their money, and let's not even get into the fact that even if developers actually manage to make a means of DRM that can't be cracked, that doesn't guarentee players will buy the game if they can't pirate it. Maybe they will simply not play it at all. In short, intrusive DRM may cause developers to lose more sales than it earns them.

And refusing to release a game for PC because of piracy is no better. I mean, companies aren't obliged to release a game for any platform, if they don't release it for PC, that's their choice, I'll play it on Xbox 360 instead, if I want to. But when their reason for not releasing the game for PC is because they're afraid of piracy, it just comes off as assuming all PC gamers are pirates, and treating potential paying customers like criminals is generally not a good way for companies to earn the loyalty of their customers. Plus, it seems to assume that only PC games get pirated, and I'm pretty sure that's not the case. So not only is it bad logic, it's based on a notion that's false to begin with.

Heavy-handed copyprotection can actually increase the chances of someone obtaining the game through illegal means.

I mean, if I offer you the choice between a product that you have to pay $100 for and will likely require you to jump through hoops at some stage just to get it to work the way it should, and a product which costs you a few gig in downloads and will have fewer hassles than the other option, which one would you choose? (If there were no issues of legality)

Fact is, when you have people resorting to downloading cracked versions of your game even though they own a boxed copy, you're doing something wrong :whisper:.

EDIT: Anything you take away from a product needs to either be unimportant, or balanced by something you add. A cd check removes the ability to play the game without the cd, but having to switch disks can be lived with relatively easily. Steam requires an internet connection at least occasionally, and imposes a some other limitations, but makes up for it in convenience and other features. The solutions most big name businesses are opting for don't do this.

Piracy is not a competitor one can stamp out. To beat it, you must provide a superior product.

And I think many forget that piracy isn't just limited to PC games. I know of tons and tons of Box and PS games being pirated.

Any vaguely mainstream game will almost definitely be acquirable by unauthorised means.

QFT. As the boss of Stardock said, why spend money on non-customers? (DRM)

I think ultimately all big budget singleplayer games are going to include some kind of online interactive component in order to force people to connect with a server. Personally I think it would be great if piracy were reduced, more units sold for PC and developers could dedicate more resources into catering for PC gamers.

Piracy would be drastically reduced if it was technically impossible to play through to the end of a single player AAA RPG without authenticating because a small portion of the content was MP, for example, or needed to pull your save game history from a previous game that is only accessible from your online profile on some social website, etc.

I don't mind a one-time online DRM ,
I couldn't stand constant connection. I just won't buy those type of games. so there is a sale lost.
I also have no intention of ever playing on a console.
...maybe one day my PC will just sit there looking pretty :shrug:

Or, you know, make a good game that is not the same overused weapons, basic patchwork story and a huge amount of pretty lights every damn time.

On one hand, I don't feel any pity to that plight, perhaps it's because I'm a PS3 user and used to that dissapointment, though it's because Microsoft dikes us over by offering more, anywho, another topic for another day.

Personally, I see it this way, a game series that doesn't do PC anymore because it's been proven sales suffer due to piracy, it's their right as a developer to pull it from any platform that causes them financial woes. Developers arent there to please everyone, though that's they'd like to, that's not a reality. Suffice it to say, you can't please everyone. The fact is, they still have a quota they need to fill financially.

In reverse, an interesting thing to me is, I've read alot of pirates, not all, but a decent amount, say they pirate not because they can, but more to 'test ride' a game, if they like it, they'll buy the actual game. While I cannot condone them stealing to begin with, I can respect that logic, I mean, the world as a whole seems in a financial down turn for the past few years, why spend 50-60 dollars on a game that looks good, but turns out to be a pile of crap wrapped in pretty gift wrap?

I think the only thing dragging PC gaming into the eternal svck is console ports. That is all. ^_^

Edit: I own a console, if a game is obviously made for it I will buy it, for it. lol If I wanted to play ports with slightly better graphics, I honestly would seriously have to consider my reasons for owning a very capable PC that is essentially being put to work playing something shipped over from a rapidly ageing console that isn't pushing boundaries but trying to stretch very tight, restricted and rigid ones. "It's better on PC..." Usually means, "It looks slightly better on PC." lol

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/04/dice-on-the-decline-of-pc-gaming-%5Bcensored%5D-battlefield-3-will-give-extra-love-to-the-pc-community/

Edit: Ah the link won't work because a word is being censored. lol The word is a variation of bull-crap. If you wanna get to the article. ;) Ah here you go -> http://www.pcgamer.com/category/news/page/3/ Third article down.

I never understood why they didnt make a PC version and then a console friendly version. The Strip in Fallout New Vegas is said to be the reason all those gates there are in place.

Games that are basic console to PC ports are just terrible. :banghead:

DRM is one of the reasons I'm starting to become more of a console gamer. That, and Demon's Souls and soon Dark Souls. The PC just isn't getting good games. That may be because of the draconian DRMs, or that developers just like to make games for the consoles :shrug:.

The reason for the focus on consoles is only because console games sell more units.

Although sadly, I cannot play games like Demons Souls, Dark Souls and RDR because I don't own a console, I do take issue with "the PC just isn't getting good games" - Witcher 2, Skyrim, ME3 are all new 2011 titles that will likely look great on PC.

And it is interesting to note that Bioware supported PC gamers by releasing a PC version of DA2 with a very high res texture patch, DX11, SSAO, hq blur, etc., from what I can tell it is night and day comparing the graphics with the console versions.

Piracy is something that will allways be out there, dosent matter how much the companies try and stop it, someone will find a way around it.

Imagine them culling all those PC graphics options and having to change the interface and control method to suit a console. All that work. lol Imagine having a game with requirements so high 360's and PS3's just whine and implode when they encounter them. Much easier to port up, they don't even have to offer a new interface or even basic options PC players are used to... most just basically say, 'hey make do with the default settings and get yourself a joypad'. Trans: "Treat your monster PC like a console. Like you're emulating old SNES games or something. It's fun lulz!"



Good List Here http://www.pcgamingfan.com/?page_id=719... a lot of ports, too, but some awesome PC exclusive titles.

You make a point, but saying 'lets just do it all in one setting' is more or less a ncie way of saying 'You know what? Let's just make the modding community make this game as it could be if properly fixed for the PC.'

I can't really agree. I never got any enjoyment out of Mass Effect, the way I perceive Skyrim going is killing Elder Scrolls for me, and I have yet to play the Witcher. I'm kinda getting to the point where the only reason I use my PC is to play Grand Strategy games (like Medieval II and soon Shogun II), RTS (Stronghold 3 looks pretty cool), and older games like Baldur's Gate and Morrowind..

The PS3 is just drawing me in more with, the best version of Dead Space 2, Killzone 3, Dark Souls, and Resistance 3.

This isn't to say that I wouldn't love to see PC gaming get its act together and produce some really exciting games, but the line up for this year is looking pretty low for me in the PC department. But with monster DRM, and unstable games (which seems to be a freakin' norm, now, apparently) I can't see myself getting into it for awhile.

EDIT: Except Duke Nukem. Frankly, it ain't right unless you play Duke on the PC.

I'm thinking the only thing dragging PC gaming into the eternal poop is console ports. I thought the stip in FO:NV was going to be open. But they made it have 3-4 gates.

Even if I did own a console, I couldn't imagine buying any game for console that was available for PC.

If nothing else, 1280x720 simply does not look good on 1920x1080 resolution HDTV or projector when you are used to 1080p. Also, I really hate dealing with physical discs and prefer to get all my games as digital downloads from Steam.

Nothing more than corruption and pure laziness.

I have visited several sites that crack every game out there the day it's out, or before, DRM doesn't help crap.

I stopped buying pirated games since 1996 and my first original game was Wing Commander 4, then Diablo. These games were known expensive to the core, yet they turned a pirate into a real buyer. So the key is, make a good game.

Baulder's Gate series made millions back when console games were more robust than PC games and turned Bioware into what now? Piracy is a dellusion created by developers either to trick their employees to believe they are going the right direction. The only advantage of console over PC development I can think of is unified hardware specification leading FAR less technical issues and shorter development period. If your games are good, they will create real buyers. For pirates (lot of my friends are), they either pirate your games or don't play at all, they cannot be a factor to your game development. Hell some of my friends pirate every console games they play, we have plenty stores out here to tweak your console to be able to read pirated disks. Funny thing is, once your console's been tweaked, they can't read original copies anymore, so your DRM or "anti-pirate" policy never contributed craps.

I love Steam, not because of its "anti-pirate" features, but because of it's ease of use and its cloud concept to game distribution.