So well all know at this point how badly we were lied to during the Oblivion previews. Dynamic real time shadows, Radiant AI its all been mentioned before and taken away before release.


So will we see these and maybe other features pulled once again or shall we put our faith back into Todd and Co?

For those that don't know what I'm talking about watch the preview videos that came out for Oblivion. The graphics far surpass what Oblivion looks like right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqMmrZdLnUo&playnext=1&list=PLAABD208DC66D99E3&index=22

This question has been asked so many times before, and the answer is no. They had a good reason for removing AI from oblivion, and from what it sounds like its been overhauled for skyrim. What people still don't understand is that bethesda didn't know what would be available on the xbox 360. They had to remove some things because of that as well. I don't think we have anything to worry about, considering fallout 3 and new vegas were much better when it comes to these things.

They got a lot of criticism. I'm sure they won't repeat that.

Keeping in mind - those are the things they WANTED to put in, but couldn't work on because they didn't get the hardware until 6 months before the release. This is a different case, where they have had the hardware from the beginning. It would have been tested up to this point. If it didn't work well by now, they wouldn't have/ won't mention it.

I voted yes, but I wouldn't call them lies.... I'm sure we will see some cool visuals and game play mechanics that aren't gonna make the final cut.

We were never lied to in the first place, not even misled, features getting reduced or cut is just part of developing a game. I'm sure they regret losing those features as much as any player, even without our [censored]ing and moaning.

meh I love Bethesda so all is forgiven and its not really lies its not like their 2k who with Mafia 2 took out content and made them dlcs (not really like buying a full game aye) anyway Bethesda's a good company so I doubt their going to lie

They will exaggerate features and other elements. They will induce mags and sites to be on the verge of lying for them in reviews and previews by the granting of exclusives and make reviewers play in controlled enviroments but sadly this seems to be standard industry practice. I'd ike to hope they wont go into full scale lie mode though.

One thing i'm pretty sure will be over hyped will be radiant story and this whole random AI thing. While it sounds great to have a kid run up to you and offer a sword you dropped back i'm sure this will be scripted rather than something the AI chooses. Equally the replacement of a shopkeeper with his sister seems like something that will be rare rather than common. Given that we all accept that full voice acting is a certainty the variables and amount of dialogue required make this prohibitive to apply widely. I'm sure there's other stuff mentioned that wont bear out as well.

One problem is the sometimes unwitting perception that's created by some statements. When the hivemind takes something on and the game doesn't turn out that way it isn't always as a result of deliberate deception.

I'm not sure this is quite true - we were definitely misled, certainly in the instance of the AI - which was something that Bethesda talked about (and bigged up) massively building up to the release of Oblivion - not once were we told that in reality the AI was pretty terrible.

That aside - I don't think they will be making the same mistake with Skyrim

Okay, I'll cede that, but I don't think we were misled intentionally.

I doubt they'll cut that much this time. Looking at those videos , there doesn't seem to be much change other than the NPC conversations and the lighting being much better than in the actual game. Anyway, this time they're only 11 months away from the release. I imagine that by now they have msot of the work done and probably won't be adding/cutting much between now and the release.

Considering that we gave them so much *censor* for that I think they have learned their lesson, and that's probably part of the reason why they have been so tight lipped. I loove Bethehda, I always will they are like a kid that keeps on growing up and getting stronger and with ZeniMax running the show on innovation my heart and soul will fully support bethesda even with their mistakes. I would call it lies, more like to ambitious. Though I bet they will have nailed it this time! Even those horrible scans that have been going around loook fantastic! Thank you Bethesda!

*cough* Correction, Bethesda running the show

What about the graphics in those videos are better than the Oblivion we got? Looks the same to me.

I think lies is a bit of a harsh term to use.

It`s not unsual for ambitious games to have features dropped before the final release - two worlds 2 is only the latest example of that, when the game was released with a large island not having content in it, boy did the Zuxxez forums get filled with angry posts about it.

Thats the downside to getting info on a game way before the release date.

I have faith in Bethseda though and reckon that Skyrim will blow most of us away with it`s content. If the radiant AI and radiant Story work as well as implied, I`ll be one happy chap.

In a word: YES.

As a rule, I expect all games to lose some features in development. Developers have time / money problems and things need to be dropped in order for the game to come out on schedule. It svcks, but game developers are business, just trying to make money like everyone else.

Wow if you think Todd Lies, i'd hate to get your opinion on Peter Molyneux.

Radiant AI wasn't a lie exactly it was still there but it was very dumbed down and that like another poster said was due to them receiving the hardware for the next gen consoles so late into development.

yup, that's true...they only had the 360 hardware for I think 6 months before launch so they were forced to scrap a lot of it, fall out 3 did a better job of it.

I'm going to bet that this newly redesigned engine was built from the bottom up to support the radiant AI system.

Todd said somewhere they threw a party when the ram was increased on the 360 lol.

No need to worry really. Oblivion got gimped at the last minute because Microsoft didn't get the developers final hardware to look at until May of 2005, which was a mere 6 months before Oblivion's planned release. They've has 4 years to assess things for Skyrim. I don't think there's going to be a problem this time.

"Welcome to our demo"

That wasn't a preview. Just like the Sacred Ashes trailer wasn't what actually happened in the DA:O game. Actually, I think that's about the only area of that game where you don't run into darkspawn, where in the trailer they were the only enemy besides a rather large critter.

If they had said that was definitely in the game, then it would have been a lie. They created a set area for the demo; it was for E3 and they had 20 minutes to show off the whole game. It was set up with the pc ubered with the console, starting out with high skills and 10,000 health and magic and the enemies were nerfed so they would be one shot kills. The 20 minute demo that had to show off the world, the combat system, the magic system, and the npcs that, again, had the settings changed with the console for the demo. To show off the AI, they set the schedules to run in a very short span of time. It wouldn't have been much of a demo watching the bookseller wake up, open her shop, stand around for a few in-game hours, head off to lunch, go back to work for a few more in-game hours, head off to dinner, and go to bed, to start over again the next day. Or they could have followed David Surile to work in his vineyard all day. That would have taken a lot longer than 20 minutes, and could have proved to be rather boring, as well. The AI had to be toned down because the npcs were screwing up quests. Finding a deserted town because the inn ran out of food and everyone left to find lunch, or finding a lot of dead npcs because one was supposed to do a job that needed a rake, and the other npc had it, so the first one killed him for it and the other npcs joined in wouldn't have made players happy after the first "OMG that is funny" reaction. Enough people complained when they themselves broke a quest, if the game was breaking the quests all by itself, there would have been a lot of complaints. They took out the shadows because there were problems with it. They changed the UI from the demo because they thought it could be improved. The persuasion interface was changed. Nothing said at any point said that everything in the demo was in the game.

Its also one of the reasons I'm happy they said nothing about the Skyrim until it was almost ready. The fewer things they released, the fewer things people could complain about if they had to take it out of the game at some point. Early build of the game does not equal finished build of the game that goes gold.

Definitely true. I remember waiting for Fable 2 and getting so excited. Peter Molyneux is a complete joke of a character. I didn't even watch any of the fable 3 trailers after playing the second one. Such a disappointment.

Lots of good answers in this thread btw.

Used to be a fan of Molyneux, but he lives in a fantasy world of his own where he makes the awesomest games in the universe.
Dungeon Keeper was hilarious and Black&White, while not being a very good game, still has some amazing programming and holds the record for "most innovations in one game ever".

He's a bit like the crazy genius of gaming who makes a lot of inventions but none of them are really useful or as he imagines them.

Peter: *look, the characters can hold hands...*
Everyone: *whyyyyyyy?*

This. We're getting to the point that any features that turned out to be a bad idea or that just not work well somehow have been scrapped already. By the time we get the first video they're not going to scrap any major features anymore.

Haha I agree. Peter is like a mad scientist. He's constantly making inventions without uses.

I agree that "lies" is a bit of a strong word. Considering the very specific release date, the length of development, and the team's familiarity with the console hardware from the beginning, I can't imagine that with this game, Bethesda will ever be in a situation where they don't know for certain that a given feature or technology will work on all three platforms before they reveal it.

So unless one of their actual goals is to deceive and subsequently disappoint their fans, no, I can't see it happening.