I am aware of the lore. By core design, I only spoke of the Altmer cosmetically. It was a joke, meaning I wouldn't be proud if I looked like this: http://images.wikia.com/oblivion/images/e/ec/Varulae.jpg

Everyone was unnaturally hideous in Oblivion. But mer are not supposed to look like tall humans with longer ears, they're supposed to look alien.

Not going to argue with you there. I don't think Oblivion is a good depiction of any of the races, simply because facegen was horribly implemented and everyone looked like they were beaten with potatoes (Todd's words, not mine). I think Morrowind's depictions of them were perfect - they were alien looking, but some of them were rather attractive. I see the Altmer as a high fashion model sort of attractiveness - really weird looking when compared to a normal person, but beautiful in an art sort of way.


I'm not going to comment on the stylistic choices already present in Skyrim. Just because that concept looks like Edoras doesn't mean LotR-ing up everything else is a good thing.

pretty much, They are all Extraterrestrial life, while everything in LOTR took place on Earth in an unrecorded antiquity 10,000 to 6,000 years ago.

But ya, I think we could all agree that http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs19/f/2007/273/f/e/Oblivion__Character_Creation_by_TheMinttu.jpg

Good thing you didn't cause I obviously don't know how to hyperlink. ^_^

Oh my. No joke, that looks almost exactly like the Fallout 3 character I made yesterday. Except he had mutton chops and that Hitler comb-over hairstyle.

Nah, your link works fine. I just copy/pasted that part of your post, so the link was broken in mine due to the dots in the middle.

Another link to official art of http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/races_mw_bosmer.gif.

Oh okay, well of course that has art changes. I don't mind if they look like that either as long as they remain true to their character and are taken seriously. But in comparison to the more recent oblivion concept/official art, look what the finished results are, its just silly.
http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-ImageFileViewer/CommunityServer-Components-UserFiles-00-00-45-27-94-Attached+Files/7536.Picture-6.png_2D00_610x0.png

The concept art is fine, I think. I'm actually very fond of the square jaw Oblivion introduced for Bosmer. The execution is horrible, agreed, but hopefully with facegen out the window we can get back to better, more unique looking people. Judging by the screenshots and videos so far, I have high hopes.

The main culprit. http://www.facegen.com/
Does nothing but baby-smooth faces. I'm glad Bethesda got rid of it.

I love the concept art, and if they would have looked like that in game, I would have no complaints. Visually, using this as a concept,
http://elderscrolls.neoseeker.com/w/i/elderscrolls/thumb/8/87/Bosmer_official.jpg/180px-Bosmer_official.jpg

This: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l80rvbEEao1qd79ozo1_400.jpg
would not be a bad looking design for an in-game wood elf. And this character is inspired from an elf from the Woodland Realm.

Yep, it wasn't design choice, its because they only got the hardware to code it 6 months before Oblivion came out. It has been refined through the Fallouts, but the look from the screenshots alone show a more dynamic look. More realistic human for the Nedic races and from what we've seen of the others, they look to be more refined. The Khajiit kind of looks like a Kzin, but whatever.

Well, we already know how http://images.idgentertainment.de/images/idgwpgsgp/bdb/2216274/bigimage.jpg. If we compare that with the http://images.uesp.net//b/bd/Orsimer_official.jpg, and if that is any indication, the other elves might have gotten a serious redesign as well.

Other than a darker color, nose that points down and a less protruding flat forehead, they are similar. This particular new Orc has a Bone brow that goes down through the lower blunt jaw. The lighting, hair, paint and overall logical cranium design is what makes it look so different. Of course concept art, graphical limitations, and design choice are always changing, but they are similar.

The Other races are more ambiguous though,. You had some Bosmer looking like Pan, while others looked like the dude from the movie Brazil. Khajiits have always been changing depending on lore. Argonians used to look like Elves from the 70's cartoon version of LOTR. High Elves looked like Renegade Lorenzo Lamas in Arena. Its rather funny.

I've heard some people saying on this thread that original Norse elves are diminuitive gnomelike things that were part of Faerydom and that Tolkien elves were a complete redesign that had never been seen before, so I wanted to link the first two sentences on Wikipedia on elves.



So yeah, not quite true, original Norse elves were rather close to what Tolkien wrote about.

It also implies that the dark elves are dwarves were similar. I always thought TES was unique in placing Dwemer among mer. Guess not.

It does seem like the light elves and dark elves are what Tolkien drew on to inspire elves and dwarves.

I completely agree that the races portrayed in-game are absolutely nothing like what they are portrayed in lore. At least in Oblivion, the only things separating the races were their looks and minor differences in stats and abilities. High Elves really were not haughty at all. Wood elves seemed as comfortable with city life as anyone, and there were no more of them to be found in the wilds than there were of any other race. It’s not just the elves either. I don’t think any of the races were portrayed very well in Oblivion at all.

Ah, this reminds me of one of Harry Partridge's videos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Pjgs9I9Ns&feature=channel_video_title

Go Animate! = Face Gen
Mr. Partridge = Bethesda's Character Artists :biggrin:

The elves in Tolkien lore are DEFINITELY pompus asses They're selfish, self-righteous, racist, and when Middle-Earth was in real peril, they all decided it was time to ship off back to the West, where they'd better beg the Valar for their wretched lives after they blew them off in pre-history, killed a significant amount of their loyal followers, and then refused to defend Middle-Earth because they've "endured too much sorrow". Granted, there are good elves, and the elves were naturally stronger, wiser, and more powerful than Men, but they sure weren't afraid of parading it around like a jealous older sibling. Being immortal isn't an excuse for being rude and condescending.

That's not to say that the Altmer should be anything like Tolkein's elves. But the elves in Oblivion were dorky, and not in a lore-designed way. Just because the Altmer have a false sense of superiority doesn't mean they should all act like tea-drinking grandparents, there are better ways to carry the "I'm too good for you" message across. And Bosmer can definitely be portrayed as half-insane with claustrophobia without being the joke race. The various cultures of the elves should be better presented in-game, so that their weird behaviour is meaningful to the player instead of seeming badly-designed.

The Elves left because it was to be the Age of Men. They gave middle Earth to man so it would become our current Earth. Read the Silmarillion. Sometimes Elves went against the Valar, doesnt really make them similar to the pompous Altmer. the Altmer would never give up an entire continent just for man and "lesser" races without some sort of fight. which is what happened to a certain extent.

Tolkein's wussy elves can svck scrib butts. Barenziah could kick their asses any day of the week. :toughninja:

In other words: I'm sick of the stick-thin, long-blonde-hair, bow wielding, holier-than-thou cliche elves. I like TES's refreshing take on the whole "elf" concept.