I just don't think that's how it works in TES. Take a look a Morrowind, there's a huge difference in how a Telvani Mage Lord acts and the way an Ashlander acts, or a Guar farmer, or a House Hlaalu noble, but they are all Dark Elves.

No they're not.

Altmer think themselves that, but they don't quite live up to their lofty opinions of themselves, and that's not a failure on the part of Beth - that's very deliberate. Bosmer are squabbling, clannish hunters and ritual cannibals. Dunmer are what the Chimer became after they were punished by the gods. The "elves" in the TES universe are very much, and very deliberately, NOT "majestic, beautiful, graceful and wise creatures." That's just your Tolkien-inspired romanticism substituting for the way in which Beth specifically designed those creatures colloquially known as "elves" in their games.

I was thinking... attending to the lore, there were elves in Skyrim, yes... Aldmer (not alTmers) and Falmer (snow elves), not Bosmer... interesting? Would they "dare" to remove altmers and bosmers in favor of aldmers and falmers?

They way they ACT isn't how TES describes them though. That is the issue. TES says "Bosmer reject the stiff, formal traditions of Aldmeri high culture, preferring a romantic, simple existence in harmony with the land, its wild beauty and wild creatures." That is a wood elf, that's what I expect to see in game. Instead we get a mockery of that, with the Adoring fan and Glarathir, I can't even name a single wood elf in Oblivion that carried itself with this description in mind.

Wood Elves are made out to be a joke in the games and it seems clear to me that's not the way they were designed to be. These elves are designed to be a little more Tolkienesque, as another poster said, all Elves are. It's fine to break that mold and create your own vision, but look at what TES lore says and what we receive in game. It's silly almost, and it's not just a cosmetic issue.

Pretty much this!

I completely agree with you! The only elves that I can look at respectably are the dark elves and that's only because I have played Morrowind. I would love to see more tolkein inspired elves in Skyrim, everything about the elves in LotR is magical, interesting, rich, beautiful I think that something similar (since I don't want a direct clone of LotR) would be great. Besides Arewen is hot! :wink_smile:

Chill, people. I don't think the OP is asking for Beth to put Tolkien Elves in the game, only that they make them more Tolkien-ish in appearance to avoid them looking like tall, golden weirdos. Think about an elf from one of the Peter Jackson treatments, but taller, and with golden tinted skin

It's not continuity he's talking about, it's appearance, and the Elves of LOTR looked like living Elves as opposed to Oblivion's freakish yellow people.

True I am looking at these characters through tinted glasses, that I can admit. However based on what you described, none of that is represented in the game AT ALL. Altmer's don't carry themselves differently at all. Bosmer aren't seen hunting, in the wilderness, or performing rituals, they're seen being the town laughing stock or carrying torches for the grand champion. My point still remains.

Yet thats wrong. I'll post it again: Actually there are quite a lot of similarities in the Germanic, Norse and Romantic period Elves and your typical high fantasy fare. Not to mention Lord Dunsany wrote about high fantasy Elves before Tolkien even wrote The Hobbit. also TS Elves and Tolkien Elves are very different. Even a modest interest in both mediums tell you this. there's actually more things they dont have in common than they do. Tolkien Elves weren't even fully fleshed out until the posthumous Silmarillion.

Actually, I'd have to agree that a lot of the Altmer in OB acted like stuck-up assclowns. Which they were.

They should look more majestic, but really just act like dikes.

That is because you're dealing with mer that have been assimilated into Imperial culture. They're only "mer" (elves) in the sense that they have the appearance of one. The Altmer of Summurset probably don't consider the ones from Cyrodiil true Altmer.

That's interesting too. I'd just like to see more of the culture of each race be represented in the games. This is a really good discussion and I look forward to seeing the responses when I get back from work.

Not to mention, go read a book on Valenwood or on High Elves. They are represented like they are described.

Before the writings of fantasy, elves in certain folklore were known as small mischievous gnome-like creatures . Don't see much similarities there. Plus, if it wasn't for Tolkien, we wouldn't know fantasy like we do today. Yes that man may have written about elves first. But he isn't the one that made them famous. Tolkien is considered the grandfather of fantasy and it was because of his writings that the genre became such a staple.

Plus there are quite a few similarities ; Quite a few elves are tall or average human height (minus the Bosmer) The Altmer are known as high elves, which is a name used for some elves in Lotr, they live longer than men, have pointed ears. And some became orcs (Just like the orcs in Middle earth.)

How Skyrim should take a little more from Tolkien

Stopped reading there.
Just. No.

Have you played Morrowind? Though I never really paid attention to the Altmer in Morrowind, they did have dialogue that made them seem arrogant. I'm sure I heard one describe themselves as having "superior blood."

So therefore dudes statement was fallacious. And learn more about Mythological Elves, they were more than just little fairies etc. there were Dark Elves, High Elves, tree Elves all before the 20th century.

Elves in Norse folklore are little beings, in some traditions being part of faerydom. In Tolkien, and therefore in ALL high fantasy, they retain a sort of divine (in the super-human sense, no necessarily supernatural) nature they had in mythology, but Tolkien transforms them into something that is very like humans. Actually, Tolkien describes them like that in one of his letters.

While you are right about Dunsanny, and that being one of Tolkien's inspirations, the elves that have been endlessly reproduced are not Dunsanny's but Tolkien's. Yes, Tolkien takes from Dunsanny the characterization of Elves as beings of human stature, immortal, ect; but Tolkien adds more to it, he makes them slightly supernatural, or divine as I said, and ancient and pre-human (something that is VERY important in modern fantasy), and had some Christian undertones. Poul Anderson also made elves this way (without the Christian thing of course).

These characterization of elves as ancient, pre human, with an affinity to making objects of power, and being keepers of history, is what Dungeons and Dragons uses (not Dunsany's).

And these elves are everywhere, EVEN IN TES. Of course, every world concept plays around with its conceptions of elves to make them fit what the author needs, but that doesnt make them less tolkienesque, not in TES, not in Dragon Age, or other fantasy.

Tolkien Elves are not TES Elves, nor should they ever be. Again, they have more divergences than things they have in common. So no, TES Elves shouldn't be more Tolkien. This is nirn and that was Middle Earth, or Ancient Earth (same thing).

vsions, I know that you will work day and night to make sure that the elves all look spectacular! You're the man! :goodjob:

Now if the Altmer were like Melniboneans, I would be all for borrowing from fantasy literature.

Otherwise no, Tolkien's influence is everywhere in fantasy already.

I think he is trying to say that Tolkien elves inspired TES elves in the sense that their both more human-like rather than a nature spirit, rather than saying their culture is the same.

I thought the elves as portrayed by Peter Jackson more resembled D&D elves to begin with? Which would mean you're then not asking them to be LOTRish, but D&Dish, which would be a bit silly, since the series already has its roots in D&D and diverged from there so it wouldn't be just another D&D realm.

I think you guys will be very happy with the diversity and look of the elves. Fear not people, a few of you guys were initially worried about what orcs would look like and Im thinking that you guys were pretty happy with them right? Dont worry my friends, its all in good hands

yet they have more differences than things in common, plus Im just saying that TES Elves shouldn't be more like Tolkein Elves. then I was just rebuking his statement about how Tolkein created fantasy Elves.