[Jessica Lloyd]

Theyre already doing it man. there's a handful of mods for sale, currently, by people who didn't create it and are doing it against the creator's wishes.

This whole system is messed up.

[FirDaus LOVe farhana]

I wonder if I misunderstand how Steam mods work. Can you use a mod manager on those as well, just like you do for those from Nexus? The only drawback is that they are auto-updated?

I have never actually downloaded a Steam mod so I just don't know. Apologies if I spoke too soon and about something I don't know anything about.

[Stephanie I]

I am very tired and my thoughts on this matter are conflicted, so I'll merely make a few comments:

I never planned to move anything to the Workshop and have no intentions to, but I'm not going to not do it ostentatiously.

A dear friend of mine is charging; what can I do? He's in quite dire financial straits already; anything that gets him money can't be all bad.

Someone earlier said that they "supported" modders by endorsing. This must be a joke. An endorsemant is an impersonal matter -- it's the click of a button. A well-written thank you would fulfill my need to be gratified by strangers, but those are few and far between in my experience. A silent majority is not a comforting audience; a quiet house makes one feel like a fool.

If mod users feel entitled when the mods are free, heavens forfend us when they have to pay.

Some people have vivid imaginations.

[elliot mudd]

Yup, it's completely [censored]. Who would release modding resources, or allow their mods to be shared when some guy can just take it and use it to make money on the workshop? Who would want to take the effort to police the workshop to make sure their stuff aren't being stolen. It's ridiculous.

Anyone defending this is being too optimistic. The majority of the mods today in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim were made possible not by one person, but through the contributions of an entire community. They used tools and resources left by previous modders. We literally are already seeing great mods like Wet and Cold getting stripped off its unique custom models because isoku is rightfully afraid of using free assets in his paid mod. I don't want a future where every modder or modding team hides in their little corner of the game, never sharing or collaborating just to get the scraps of revenue dropped by Valve and Beth.

[DAVId Bryant]

I don't know the motivation of Valve nor do I care (money? don't they make enough already?) but for Bethesda it's a stupid move, much more stupid than the horse armor and that'll bite them in the $ in the long run. They should have kept integrity for the sake of their loyal PC community and ditch Steam if necessary. Steam is not their main income anyway.

[Assumptah George]

I will be the first to support modders and I heavily sympathize with those in financial trouble. But monetizing mods *is not* going to be helpful to the system. For creators, mods exist as a way to fill their portfolio when looking for a job in the gaming industry. Now, we are already seeing low quality content being pushed to the front of the Workshop as quick cash grabs. I'm completely behind the idea of Kickstarter or donations for modders, but turning them into buggy, unofficial DLC is a terrible idea.

Not to mention how open to abuse this is. Right, there are already a handful of mods being sold that aren't uploaded by their creator and is against their wishes. Modders are already removing their content from Nexus so that people won't reupload and charge for it.

All in all, this will be so much more destructive to the modding community, the TES community, and PC gaming altogether. If you'd like, I explain all of this much better in my long post in the middle of the previous page of this thread (page 5).

[Setal Vara]

Really? That's happening?

I'm not entirely innocent. Heck, I'm converting a total conversion of a previous TES game (set in a different universe) to a fully separate indie game. But I've been in contact with the original creators and we discussed a deal so we would all benefit.

[Jonny]

Would you perhaps consider donating to him, then?

[Claire Vaux]

I agree with everything you said. Also, now Bethesda can put out even shoddier work because they know every modder out there will make mods and patches that fix the problems and they (Beth) will get even more money off all the modder′s work. They can also cut costs by firing people from the company because the modders do their work anyway.

[Ana]

what saddens me more is the mere idea of shekels has had the effect of blood in water and the sharks have gone into a frenzy.

We see in Chesko's post he couldn't resist. He took a bite of the apple and indeed it was delicious.

The cold, stark, grey reality is that he's being pimped by bethesda and valve. Now, from both companies perspectives they probably believe they are being reasonable.

But this is going to open up a black market. 40,000 mods on the nexus? and we're supposed to pay for all of those? that's the future they are promising. But its not a realistic future, the only effect this will have is to blacklist certain modders, copy cats will come up (probably by ripping thier scripts) and offer a free alternative. and ofc the black market will rise.

I wish Chesko wouldn't have lent a shred of credence to this, instead he should have held out for more. if this is going down, it needs to be 50% minimum. And steam needs to vet every mod, which should be limited to gameplay and quest mods. Not armor and weapons mods.

and they need to be completely free of outside utilities, especially SKSE, nifskope, xEdit just on pure principle, unless these people extract a fee for using them. There should be no collaboration from anyone except the parties getting paid. It should be perpetually compatible with all updates and dlc. At the end of the day, its no longer a mod, its a digital product. And that carries with it certain liabilities.

Chesko's work should be scrutinized under a microscope, he is essentially providing DLC under the employ of bethesda.

[Esther Fernandez]

If his work is good and I enjoy it, then yes I would. I've actually been a big supporter of Morroblivion and Skywind, helping to bugtest the former, creating a few simple plugins, and always letting Qwertyasdfg, llde, and Brainslasher know how much I love their work. I absolutely would donate to them because I like their work and I like to reward them for their work.

But a paid mods system is not the way to support peoples' work, for a multitude of reasons.

[Schel[Anne]FTL]

Hey Agure, sorry to bother you, but I can't find the comments thread where the above screenshot is from. Would you mind posting the direct URL? I'm sure a lot of people would like to read the whole conversation (if it has been moderated out of existence, that is.)

[M!KkI]

Yeah, this is a really fair point. I mean, devs already do this. Whenever there's a feature that doesn't work well or if they aren't sure that a mechanic isn't well received they are assured in knowing that modders will fix it. This will increase heavily now that there are paid mods. This has opened a big can of worms that will cause problems for everyone in the long run: fans and modders.

Also, I recommend people go read the post I left on page 5. I know it's long, but I think it sums up everything nicely. I tried to be as neutral as possible, but I'm naturally biased because I am passionate about TES and it's modding community

[Suzy Santana]

I understand why content creators would like to be paid for their work, it's a reasonable desire. If there was a way for me to be paid for modding without any negative results I'd take it.

However, I don't think the demand for paid mod content exists. The price of Skyrim with all of the DLC is ￡19.99 (with no discount) and the price of the debut mod pack is ￡24.88 (with no discount). The cost/benefit ratio just isn't there for the majority of consumers.

You can't just spawn a market for things out of thin air (well you can...but generally that only works for apple) and when you already have an existing one you're taking a big risk when you decide you no longer want to support it. Frankly this seems like a straight up money grab by valve/bethesda (especially considering the ludicrous cut they're taking) and I think anyone who agrees to those rates is severely devaluing their worth - especially considering the amount of skyrim sales that're driven because of mod content.

[Eibe Novy]

Yeah, this whole system is as harmful to modders as it is mod users. It's going to reward low effort content and totally screw over the modding scene. I'm all for donating to modders, but suggesting that they sell their mods (beyond things like Black Mesa or Skywind) a little naive. People will just pirate them. The ones who don't condone piracy just won't even use mods.

If you're a modder of a big project, set up a Kickstarter. KS would be a great way to fund really big projects and it would reward good content. The unnofficial nickle and dime DLC system that we have right now is just going to seriously wound the TES modding community. What's worse, calling people who criticize this system freeloaders will only further divide this community and certainly not convince them to buy your content. I'm a huge supporter of modders, but I cannot abide this system.

If you're a mod creator, you're likely creating because you're passionate about the game. Your incentive is to build a portfolio based on your work so that a dev company will hire you (this is like the main thing that they look at when hiring new talent). Turning modding into an industry is the most destructive thing imaginable and is a sign of the times where DLC has become so pervasive that it's seeping into free content.

[le GraiN]

Or Flattr, or Patreon. There's plenty of options of getting support from followers, all far better than Valve's ridiculous 25% split.

[Michael Korkia]

A paid mod becomes a Product. If a modder releases a paid MOD and a game update breaks it, would people be able to hold the modder liable? What if his MODs breaks another one permanently? Many mods eventually stop updating and are forgotten. What would be considered adequate support both in terms of time and actions taken?

The trade laws in Eu are pretty clear:

Specific information requirements apply when buying digital content online. Before making the purchase, the consumer must be informed how the content operates with relevant hardware/software (interoperability) and about its functionality, including whether any geographical restrictions apply to the use of the content and if private copies are allowed.

Consumers also enjoy the right of withdrawal within 14 days from concluding the contract for online digital content. However, even if once the consumer starts downloading or streaming the content he may no longer withdraw from the purchase, still the trader obligations remains. So, if a MOD is not working the consumers is fully entitled to a refund, regardless of how much time has passed.

Needless to say, in this case, the modder is not the only one liable, as both Valve and Bethesda are more than happy to take their fair cut of profits. At least in the EU, Steam is operating in a grey area (if not totally outside) of the law.

[sally R]

If you can't tell within 72h, I have no words for you. Also, I don't work for Valve.





Because as silly as Valve is, they aren't /stupid/. If they claimed ownership over mods, they wouldn't have anyone contributing to their system.



I have no clue. Also, the idea is that you sell your 2 dollar mod at least 100 times. It's how microtransaction works.



Wouldn't happen. And if it did, I'd wonder how the Nexus could afford it. I suspect you just dislike Valve.

[kitten maciver]

I "create" because I fulfilled my own wishes and shared; my incentive is to bolster my meagre self-esteem with the praise of strangers. I want to go to law school, be a lawyer or a politician.

I recall a rather prominent incident where a quest mod author was harshly criticized for trying to use Kickstarter to fund a sequel to their quest mod -- talk of it bordering on illegality, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Gaelle Courant]

Actually, what I said was that I've always supported modders (full stop). I included giving endorsemants as part of that. My main point was more referring to supporting their wishes, their rights to remove their content if they wished, not be customandered, etc. Also reporting bugs in a polite manner, helping them bug test when necessary, doing some beta testing here and there, and generally not being an ass. You know, being supportive of modders as it was known prior to recently.

I also said that if they want money that's their prerogative, but in that case I think they themselves should get the money for their work, not Valve. Not much imagination required for that really.

[Jani Eayon]

I've loaded mods in my game that i haven't seen until 200 hours later. which could mean 6 months.

going through a mod like falskarr would need more than 24-72 hours.

I don't think you understand this issue about mod ownership, i'm 99% positive that all mods are actually the intellectual property of bethesda, the only reason mods are allowed now is that they aren't being sold. The issue i'm having with this particularly, is that when bethesda sees actual profit from a mod, they may seek to shut down their competition if a similar mod is offered for free on the nexus. Plus it opens up the possibility of Bethesda changing or repackaging a mod on the basis of whim.

Here's one reason i don't like steam:

Q. Do I need to provide bank information even though I don’t want to receive revenue share on the item(s)?

A. Yes, you will need to provide valid bank information regardless of whether your item is a paid item or a free item.

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoppaymentinfofaq/

[Neko Jenny]

That is just sick!

[Zualett]

I agree. I know you made some http://forums.totalwar.com/forumdisplay.php/107-Let-s-Play!?s=8e7928c0f3caebd128945103cfbb4891 videos for Total War games, but I had no idea that you had legal issues with those videos along the way.

I came to the same conclusion and http://www.fliggerty.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=87434#p87434 on the matter almost 3 years ago. Modding is a hobby and have always been that for many people, but when money gets involved into a hobby then it isn't a hobby anymore it is sort of a salary for mod makers.

Why not let a modding community be a place there people create mods and share their work with other people for free, but also be a source for companies to recruit talented modders to their business just what happen to Sotobratos and last year I think to Alexander J. Welicky. This has always worked as long money stays outside of the community, but NOT inside of the community.

[Luna Lovegood]

To be fair you're not allowed to use KS to kickstart projects you don't have the rights to. Mods are an iffy area.

As far as I can tell Patreon's about supporting the creator directly, not really the work. Brodual has a Patreon to support his youtube videos, for example. People pay to support the person so that they can continue to put out their content for free, so no one is directly monetising copyrighted material. You can also withdraw support anytime. I think it's a good compromise.

[glot]

Odd. Perhaps I misread a period as a comma. That is a much more rounded definition and I'm sorry for my misunderstanding.