[BlackaneseB]

I despise piracy but I bet a quick search would show all those paid mods already available via torrents, Mega/Dropbox uploads and so on. These modders are going to be spending a lot of their time playing whack-a-mole with DMCA takedown notices. What will be next? DRM for mods? Hahaha.

[Madeleine Rose Walsh]

That may be the case now. Awhile ago the consesus was that paid mods would not happen in any capacity. Things change.

I'd like to see your response to this if you will:

Q. Is there a minimum revenue I must earn before I can receive a payment?
A. Yes. There are costs associated with issuing each individual payment as well as potential bank fees charged to you upon receiving money that make it prohibitive to pay out for small amounts of money. Therefore, we may hold your payment until a minimum of $100 payout is earned.

So, if you only get $399 dollars worth of downloads, are you going to be happy with Bethesda and Valve making money at your expense while you literally get nothing? I realize this will not affect big time modders, but these guys should be sickened that fellow craftsmen will be exploited. Or maybe not, as we have already seen that the allure of the big time is more important than the closeness of community. This would not have been the case in the Elder Scrolls modding community ten years ago and I firmly stand by that. This change will serve nothing more but to make mod users and mod authors both more petty and entitled. I am afraid that the tight-knit community of old will become a relic of the past.

[Joanne]

That would provide further incentive for piracy and cracking the game, seeing a snowball effect here?

And really... There people that are way over reacting and being completely uncivilized about it. One of the asset creators for Wet & Cold (the only getting something out of this, i must say, said that some authors are getting harrased and have even received death threads. We are luck things did not get even uglier and nobody was doxed or somehow hacked, i hope it never gets to that.

[Rodney C]

That's exactly what I'm afraid of not because I pirate mods but because I use tools that potentially alter mods which will never play nicely with DRM.

[renee Duhamel]

Most likely.

[patricia kris]

Don't laugh. That's exactly what will end up happening...you mix in the mods loaded with your subscribed list from the workshop and there's mod DRM. Also would kill off completing sites that host mods.

[Nuno Castro]

they aren't reviews though they are complaints being posted in the review section

a Review is a rating of a based on Mechanics, Visuals, story, etc.. "Pay mods can die", or "your ruining the industry" are in no way reviews, they are people complaining in the review section trying to down the games rating because they are upset..

I think the term is "rater hater" (is that what you still call those peope? it was during the early 2000s anyway)? a person or group of people who will continuously rate down something, and not because the product or post they are rating down is bad or as issues, but because they have some suppressed anger or resentment towards the creator of the product..

people seem to be upset at Bethesda, so they are trying to knock down its rating as a sort of "revenge" (which no offense to anyone who may of posted one of those reviews, but its kinda childish)


honestly though, I haven't seen a case of rater hating this bad since the first Sims2 expansion launched and some guy on the Sims forums had all his stuff rated down because he "didn't like the legacy challenge"..

some things never change..

[Hussnein Amin]

Do they really need to respond to every insane doomsday theory people are coming up with?

Chesko has said that his mods will be on a timed exclusivitity system, Nexus Arissa will be updated in 30 days.

[Jason Rice]

I already see the freaking snowman. It's big, it's ugly, and it's not going to melt. It's going to leave a split community and divide the community resources. Modding just went cold!

[Ross]

That great of Chesko for making a reasonable compromise like that. But that's only one mod and I don't even use it. How many mod authors seeing dollar signs floating in front of their eyes are going to be that magnanimous, I wonder.

[Kelvin]

I'm thankful for that decision on his part!

[phillip crookes]

Not a lawyer, just someone who's used the Creation Kit and read the terms. Here's a quote:

As soon as you put your mod out there (as opposed to keeping it 100% private), Bethesda can do whatever they want (notice how they even use the word EXPLOIT) with it AND you have to agree to waive all rights to act against them.

Now I have no clue what actions fore could or could not have taken against Chesko. All I know is that he could not take any action against Bethesda or Valve.

[Steve Smith]

There are two things that i add based on that.

1 - EULAs and TOCs are not law, their conditions only work as far as the law allows it. If a court decides that Bethesda has no right to claim ownership of the mod them it's just like that.

2 - You said yourself that this is on the CK's EULA, what about mods that don't use the CK? What about meshes, textures, skeletons and third party programs like SKSE and FNIS? After all it's the guys that do those things that will the most common targets of this problem with authors using their assets for commercial mods.

[Robert Devlin]

I'm not going to change my mind because some modders have some nice (or not so nice) things to say about all of this.

This is not about whether or not modding is work, modders should be paid, art is worthy of coin, etc. This is about what this community is going to look like in a year.

I have always been supportive of modders. Google it. On nexus I have endorsed over 1000 mods. My heart is with them, and their passion for what they do. If they want to be paid, that is their prerogative. If they want to be paid THEY should be paid in my opinion, but ultimately if they want to throw their finally earned money at valve, that's their call.

However, Bethesda and Valve are not worried about the poor modders. They are worried about the money. Why, after years of a hard stance that NO ONE can profit from mods is this 180 happening? Ask yourself, I already know the answer.

We're in a climate where games are being used as a platform for everyone and their mother to make a buck. Youtube, Twitch, Patreon, and now my beloved TES mods are being squeezed by so many filthy fingers that what's left of my love for this hobby is being slowly bled dry. It sickens me. It saddens me.

Day one dlc, early access, paid season passes for content that is clearly developed or at the very least nearly finished but not on the disk, microtransactions? Really?! Maybe I'm just too old for this silly little habit. Maybe I'll take up knitting.

I'll not stand idly by and accept this nonsense. I already Do Not purchase games made by publishers who use these gimmicks. I Will Not do so under any circumstance, and if that means what I thought was my last bastion of sanity in this declining world known as gaming has to die, so be it. I'll watch it die, watch it drown from the shore with tears in my eyes. I will not go down with it, follow it to the depths as I spit up nasty, polluted water filled with trash. I Will Not.

[Scotties Hottie]

What? I can't believe it has come to this. This is a new low in history of modding games. If you want to support modders financially then there's donation options all over the place.

People tend to neglect everything that's involved into making mods. Where did you get the source of information on learning how to code? What amount of money is granted to the person that wrote the tutorial that allowed you to make a Mod you're charging people for? What's with the people making the tools you've made the Mod with (photoshop, gimp, blender...whatever?). Modding standards are way lower then those from game developers, hidden bugs are in every single Mod, often just because the modder isn't a professional coder or texturer...how could he be professional if he's just a modder? That's true for even the most prominent and skilled of modders.

It's not that I accuse game developers for allowing such a disgrace. They want to create a win/win situation for themselfs and the modders, and after all they're a companie that needs to grow/sell to stay alive. But if I'm paying money for people modding the game, why should I longer care about buying products made by professionals? It's a general principal that you shouldn't be allowed to charge money for something you don't do professionally...reality is different I know...but that's up to every single person to decide. Any modder should have the nerve not to charge money for things they do in spare time. It dishonors the work of professionals, it's like the piper playing the lute, and all the 'dumb' children follow him in believe he's the new highland, while he clearly's just a blender. Modding shouldn't become an industry!

And yes...there's an oath...there's a holy code. I've learned my job, I've learned how to correctly achieve what I'm supposed to do...professionally. When it comes to coding/modding I'm nothing but a do-it-yourselfer. And no matter how professional a modder does his 'job', he and his product is not professional. So charging money for the product he's delivering is nothing but a rip-off. It's a disgrace...most of the customers using Mods are under age 21...they don't even know what they are doing. You think you get your products easily sold to advlt people that have lifetime experience?

Edit: And [censored] stop using the art/work argument...people claiming their mods to be art/work have never made the experience of what IS work and art. This is how the world goes down, selling every single piece of crap as art/work, as long as you utilize the tongue to convince people. Stop blending people!

[Devin Sluis]

No one deserves this flak. Not Beth not the Modders. Absolutely no one if forcing anyone to charge or buy mods. Will it kill the modding community, no. There will always be free mods, Beth has only offered an Option to Monetize the content made by authors. It is solely up to the modders if they want to charge for their work, and to the customer if they would like to buy them. Don't like paying for mods. Don't buy them. But Beth is a company like any other that is a fact.

There will be those who disrespect other Modders and claim work that is rightfully their's. And there will be those who create content from scratch. And to those who create content from scratch, there is nothing wrong with wanting to make some cash if you're good at something. Just ask yourself before you put a price on something. "Would I myself buy this?" If not than just publish it as free.

Beth should have asked more questions, talked to the community and see if this was what WE wanted. That is their biggest blunder. And they can't force any Author to charge for their work, doing so would cause a PR nightmare unlike any other.

There are mods I'd certainly pay for, and mods that I wouldn't. If you hate the very idea of paying for mods. Don't voice your frustration at random internet users, there are petitions floating about. SIGN them. Because I'm certainly not going to care about your stance regarding paid mods. So stop complaining and do something.

[Ilona Neumann]

Like I've been saying if you want financial aid do commissions and get a patreon.

[Danielle Brown]

My my thoughts so far...

Good job Bethe$da killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.

As some already mentioned this will divide the community and the resources it provides.

Content DRM is virtually guaranteed for the next Bethesda title and may be locked into steam workshop. It's conjecture but it's logical. It might be even technically possible that they could release DRM modded content in the future for Skyrim.

If DRM is implemented most likely many of the third-party tools created that most likely will not function or would not be able to be created in the first place.

The current revenue scheme svcks 25% which is only given once a mod has reached $400. Everyone's making a killing off of this except the author. Authors/end-users are at the mercy of the workshops ever-changing terms of service. Even worse steam workshop needs a more advanced mod management to keep its users from destroying their current saves. Steam workshops mod auto updates can very easily destroy saves and load orders.

Bethe$da is making money through mods they should be continuing to update Skyrim to fix all the bugs like to lip-synch bug and it's in their best interest to fix and expand creation toolkit.

So far the only good news is that Chesko who put up his mods under a pay wall has said that his mods will be on a timed exclusivitity system, Nexus Arissa will be updated in 30 days on Nexus for free.

I'm all for authors making a revenue but I believe it should be to donation. It's the only way the community can be preserved.

We do have a right to blame Bethesda because what they've done will change the community. They did this without the input of the community. Paid content might provide revenue to create a few amazing mods but overall I think it will be a detriment to the community.

[Javier Borjas]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

[Ron]

The theory that Bethesda and Valve are going to team up and shut down Nexus/Dark Creations/TES Alliance/ect is seemingly based on the idea that they are going to want everyone to buy mods on the Workshop. But not every mod on the workshop is going to require payment, a free mod on the Workshop is no different than a free mod on Nexus. We already have an author saying they will be updating the Nexus versions at a later date, so the theory that there is some nefarious contract where if you upload to the workshop you cannot upload anywhere else is already proven false.

There isn't exactly a shortage of authors who have voiced their opposition to this, so there isn't going to be a lack of mods being created. The Beyond Skyrim team has said their mod will be free, the team behind Awake have said they are also not fans of this. I'm not entirely sure what the makeup of that team is at the moment, but I know at least Apollo and Elianora are on it, and I think t3nd0 is on the team though I am not sure. The only way this community is going to die is if everyone decides to stop modding to spite Bethesda.

And yes, the mimimum amount of money made before Valve pays up and the cut each party gets svcks. This is without a doubt Bethesda trying to milk money from mods. I'm much more a fan of donations directly to the author. Modding does not need Valve or the Workshop, we have done a terrific job of ignoring it for the most part since it launched. But declaring modding dead or thinking that every single author is suddenly going to demand a king's ransom for their mod is silly. I fully expect the Workshop to be filled with mostly terrible garbage like Greenlight or even Steam proper these days.

At this point Bethesda is in incredibly limited company with regards to their support of modding. If this is a change they had to make to keep some suit happy and let them keep releasing mod tools then so be it. If this is a change they made to buy a third diamond encrusted limo so be it. And maybe I'm wrong and they are plotting to shut down all mod sites, but insulting authors and adding dollar signs to names is not accomplishing anything. This is incredibly early in a time of tremendous change in modding Bethesda games, I think calming down and waiting to see where it ends up going is far better for everyones sanity. If the end of modding is really upon us, lets at least make the end as great as the start.

[Chloe Lou]

I take it all the p0rn mods will be the first to go "pay for"... Just one more reason to not download any of that crap...

[Gavin Roberts]

The door already hit me on the way out with this announcement today. It hit me and all PC gamers right in the face.

The backfiring is exploding.

[Louise Dennis]

It's insane that anyone can support paying for mods, especially where customers are getting screwed over and mod authors are getting played like a fiddle.

[Alisia Lisha]

This saddens me... Truly it does. I havnt been in this community as long as some of you guys but this place has always been a HUB of ideas and discussions. The mods are what gave life to the games for me. The games themselves are good but the mods made them outstanding! And now Beth is going to capitalize on what we used to do for fun, as a hobby, as a testament of how far we can push ourselves and the games engine?

I'm sorry Beth but if this becomes the norm and the Nexus is killed off you will lose me as a customer.

[Laura Cartwright]

Where is Todd Howard, what's his take on this?