[Lyd]

Moderator Note:
All forum rules apply to these threads. If you cannot follow them, you will quickly find yourself cut out of any future discussions on the forums.
If you have questions about the forum rules, send one of us a PM.


http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1516784-skyrim-workshop-now-supports-paid-mods/#entry23942002

Copy of the FAQ:


Quote
For Creators

Q. How do I set the price of my item?
A. When posting a new mod or item to the Skyrim Workshop you’ll be presented with some controls and a checklist to get your item listed for sale.

Q. How much should I charge for my item?
A. The appropriate price for your mod, map, or item will depend on a number of factors. Here are some things to think about:
1. How many similar items are already available for sale or for free?
2. How much unique content have you created? Is this something which is hard for others to do?
3. How many hours of playtime does your experience offer?

Q. Can I change the price of my item once posted?
A. Yes, but there may be limitations on how frequently you can adjust your price.

Q. What if I see someone posting content I've created?
A. If someone has copied your work, please use the DMCA takedown notice.

Q. Can I include someone else's mod in my mod?
A. The Steam Workshop makes it easy to allocate and approve portions of your item’s revenue with other collaborators or co-authors.

Q. Can I delete my Workshop item?
A. You can stop selling and delist your Workshop item, but it cannot be deleted. If there are customers have purchased your item, they will need continued access to the mod as well as your Workshop page so they can reference the items they have purchased.

Q. How do I get paid for sales of my item?
A. Please see Workshop Revenue FAQ

Q. Can I sell the mods I’ve made for other games in the Steam Workshop?
A. It is up to the developers or publisher of each game to decide if paid Workshop mods are appropriate for their game. You will only be able to sell mods for a game in the Steam Workshop if the developers have enabled that functionality.

Q. Can I sell a mod that contains artwork or content from another game or movie?
A. You must have the necessary rights to post any content that you post to the Steam Workshop, whether it is for sale or not. If you upload copyrighted content that you or your contributors do not have the rights to distribute, then you may forfeit all earned revenue from the item, may be liable for damages and compensation, and may be banned from future participation in this Workshop or the Steam Community in general.

For Players

Q. Can I get a refund?
A. If you discover that a mod does not work for you, or does not meet your expectations based on the description of the mod, you can get a refund within 24 hours of your purchase. You can view the full refund policy here.

Q. How much do paid mods cost?
A. The prices for mods are set by their authors, and depend on their size, complexity, and the type of content. Unique quests that may contain dozens of hours of playtime will probably cost more than a new hat for your character.

Q. Where can I find the mods I've purchased?
A. In your Steam Inventory

Q. Why can't I rate all the mods I see in the Steam Workshop?
A. For paid Workshop items, you need to have purchased the item before you can rate it.

Q. What happens if a mod I bought breaks?
A. Sometimes one mod may modify the same files as another mod, or a particular combination of mods may cause unexpected outcomes. If you find that mod has broken or is behaving unexpectedly, it is best to post politely on the Workshop item's page and let the mod author know the details of what you are seeing.

Q. Couldn’t I already buy items made in the Workshop?
A. While a few games support voting for items to be integrated by game developers and sold in-game as items or DLC, there hasn’t until now been a way to buy items directly through the Workshop. With paid mods and items becoming available for sale on the Workshop itself, it means more high quality items, mods, and experiences can be made available for your favorite games.

Q. How do I play a Skyrim mod I’ve purchased or subscribed to?
A. Once you’re acquired a new mod, simply launch Skyrim from your Steam library. When the launcher appears, you’ll notice status text on the lower-left as your game downloads and installs or updates new content. Once that’s done, you’re ready to go!

You can also use the “Data Files” portion of the launcher to activate or deactivate specific mods. If you’re unsure how to access new content in-game (such as figuring out which in-game vendor carries Lydia’s new hat) it’s best to check the Workshop page for that mod to see if the author has provided any clues or instructions.

[CArla HOlbert]

?

how exactly is he a traitor though? was there some kind of modders oath I am not aware of? and if so, what does it entail?


While I may not be happy with what he did, he didn't actually do anything wrong. they came to him with a Business offer and he accepted it.. now if he had replaced all his mod files on the Nexus with Malware, that would certainly be considered a betrayal of trust. but changing how he chooses to distribute his work? I don't see how that is "betrayal"..

sure, I am not happy with it and many others aren't either, but "Betrayal" implies he had some kind of Obligation to the community to begin with, and unless i missed the "Modders oath", he nor any modder has an obligation at all to make "everything free and only free"..

[Dina Boudreau]

To quote the great Tom Petty:

"As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free."

[Lucy]

To my mind, modding has always been a hobby. Some are waaay more into it and can devote large chunks of time to creating DLC sized mods. Others just enjoy creating a cool little house mod. Some just mod for themelves (like me). Anyway you look at it, paying for mods fundamentally kills that ideal and consequently modding as we know it..

[Natalie Harvey]

these latest skyrim reviews on steam are hilarious.. a good entertainment
sadly this game is no longer modding paradise. well done bethesda well done you are making sure people dont buy future fallout and elder scrolls game on PC i will certainly not.

[xemmybx]

Bethe$da is worse than EA. Can't believe I'm saying that.

[A Lo RIkIton'ton]

I guess that means no pre-order on Bethesda games going forward until this shakes out. If they attempt to kill off the Nexus, I will be done with them and their games. I have been around along time and saying that makes me quite sad.....

[Suzie Dalziel]

Mods are what give ES games from MW on wards their longevity... Stifle that and you stifle the game. Way to rub your fan base the wrong way Beth/Valve.

Add me to the list of disappointed.

-kaos

[OJY]

Bethe$da killed the goose that lays golden eggs.

[Colton Idonthavealastna]

What about the collaborative sharing of knowledge that has made the TES/FO modding community so great? Gone, I guess. Poof.

[Andy durkan]

TES games aren't good games, they're good sandboxes. As a game, the stories are fairly boring and cliche, and really only suffice for a single play through without the major overhauling supplied by mods. Hell, I still can't get through Oblivion even with mods. They're riddled with bugs and prone to crashes. If they cripple modding, they're basically taking their cash cow out back and putting a bullet in it's head...at least as far as the PC using crowd is concerned (or so it seems).

[Laura Cartwright]

It's a pretty awful day when you can say such a thing for sure. EA might be bad, but they at least produce the crap they churn out for a quick cash grab. Not try to ruin a great community to make money without effort.

[OnlyDumazzapplyhere]

Having the afternoon and evening off, I've been following this development all day, starting with Gopher's first youtube video about an hour before the news broke, his and other youtuber's responses, Dark0ne's response on Nexus, the response here and on /r/skyrimmods, on Steam and on the Nexus pages for the mod authors involved. My brain is fried, but I want to put together a full collection of my thoughts as well as information I've gathered:

-According to Chesko, Bethesda take a 45% cut, the author gets 25% and the remaining 30% is given to Valve with the possibility of some cut given to 3rd parties if appropriate. I really don't like that ratio personally. I don't know what would be fair honestly, but my first instinct is to say something like 50% for author, 40% for Beth and 10% for Valve, but I honestly don't know if that would cover Valve's operating costs for the program.

-Mod authors who monetize their mods will not receive payment until they have earned $100 in payout ($400 in total sales). On the one hand, I do understand that it costs Valve/Steam money to distribute the payout. On the other hand, how long will it take the average mod to make $400 in sales? I honestly have no idea. And what happens if a mod never makes $400? What if it sits at $300 in sales for a year? Does it all just sit there collecting digital does? Or do Steam and Beth get their $90 and $135 cuts? This is remarkably shady.

-The fact that Bethesda & Valve can change their terms whenever they see fit. Or at least so it seems. Yesterday, you couldn't make money off mods. Now you can. Who decided this? Beth & Valve. Not mod makers. So what is to stop them from changing their 75% cut to 80% in the future? Or 90%? If monetized mods actually are profitable, are they going to be content to continue giving the authors 25%? Obviously they weren't content letting mods exist for free, so I sort of doubt it.

-Explanations from both Valve and Bethesda seem to point the majority of the blame for monetized Skyrim mods being a thing at the other party. Valve says it is up to game developers to decide whether to monetize their mods, Bethesda seems resigned to the fact that this is just the direction Valve is taking their workshop in, which they are dependent on and thus must abide by. I guess it really doesn't matter as there's plenty of blame to go along.

-The fact that the entire announcement and marketing for the monetized mods is presented as a way to "support mod authors" is disgusting. I am guessing the average person will not bother looking up the info to determine the exact percentages. No direct disclosure or admission that they're doing it to rake as much money out of it as possible, even though it's blatantly obvious that if they truly cared about supporting mod authors, they would've just let them make a profit and manage their own sales all along instead of only allowing it now that they have a system in place to enjoy the majority of the profits.

-The fact that the Steam workshop is the only platform where the sale of mods can take place. For a whole host of reasons, the workshop is pretty terrible and very few people seriously interested in modding their games use it, preferring other hosting sites and modding tools. Even the layout of Steam and the workshop is horrible to navigate and search, everything looks cluttered and squished.

-There appears to be contradictions on how payouts work in regard to collaborative mods. It is unclear whether mod authors can set it up so that team members each receive a proportionate cut, or if Steam only pays the team lead who is then responsible for redistributing the payout to team members. Furthermore, it is unclear how this works in regard to the $100 minimum payout before mod authors receive a cut. Does each team member's percentage need to reach $100 before they get paid? Before anyone gets paid? Is there any sort of system in place to ensure that each member gets their cut if the team lead receives all the funds?

-Considering the rampant claims of "stolen" content on the Steam workshop (I have heard of this from many sources over the years, but have never encountered it for myself), I am wondering about Valve's ability to police any potential infractions and violations of the new system they've set up when they didn't bother doing so with the old system. Then again, dollar signs are usually a big motivator so perhaps this is a non-issue...

-24 hour trial period to "test" mods during which you can request a refund. So many issues from this...ranging from the ability to thoroughly "test" certain mods or types of mods in 24 hours, to the potential abuse of this policy to pirate mods (download, copy all files so they're unconnected to Steam, return mod and request refund), to Steam's ability to actually handle and honor refund requests, to the fact that refunds are only made in Steam dollars.

-It appears that mod authors can monetize their mods but still allow people to "buy" them for free. The Better Combat AI mod (currently under review to be authorized for monetization) would allow users to pick their price and download their mod even if the price they picked was $0. So far, this is the only monetized mod I've seen with this option, though many of them have a "pick your price tool" along with a "suggested price". I think the community would be a lot more calm if this was the norm rather than the exception, but at the same time, if you are going to offer your mod for free, why not just set up a donate button so you at least get 100% of any $ instead of just 25% if it's completely voluntary?

-I approve of Chesko's "timed exclusivity" model, where new mods or major updates could come out as pay-to-play for a time before going up for free elsewhere. In many ways, this seems like a "best of both worlds" approach. However, it opens up all sorts of other problems like 1) how motivated will a mod author be to push out a bug fix as a standalone update when they can bundle several together along with a piece of new content to put out as a monetized timed exclusivity update? Will mod authors actually be willing and able to support two separate versions of all of their mods (the older free versions and the new monetized ones)? 2) how will this work in regards to mod authors that create compatibility patches between mods? Will they now be required to maintain two patches at all times for the free Nexus version and the $ Steam one?

-Similarly, I have read that Arthmoor will be releasing different versions of new mods in the future, a pay-for version and a free version (note, this is not based on anything I've read from Arthmoor and could be 100% wrong). This is an even bigger issue than the last one imo, as it would mean two separate versions to worry about in terms of compatibility and such forever (as opposed to just a limited time with the timed exclusivity model). Content exclusivity reminds me a lot of Day 1 DLC. Nobody likes Day1 DLC.

-It seems as though Chesko has removed his new fishing animation mod from the workshop, or it has been removed for him. I can only speculate, but reading through the comments, it seems the mod either included or was dependent on assets from the FNIS animation mod by fores. Fores posted his (?) disapproval, Chesko took the conversation to PM and a few hours later the mod has disappeared. While this confirms nothing, it could suggest that mods dependent on other mods may be barred from monetization unless they have permission from all parties. How far this extends I don't know. Could the SkyUI or SKSE teams force isoku to take down his mods? No clue. BUT SKSE is the thing that makes most of the big gameplay mods possible. If they in fact have the ability to disallow monetization of mods that make use of SKSE, this would severely limit the types of mods that would be monetized on the workshop, and severely limit the number that would actually be worth paying for.

-Mod users are way too entitled. I get people being upset and all. I'm upset. But the reaction to mod authors on places like Steam and Nexus and youtube, and to a lesser extent here and reddit has been horrid. The entitlement is bad enough, but the outright rudeness was appalling in some cases.

-Arguments that modding is an art or hobby and thus shouldn't be monetized, or that money goes against modding...are pretty silly. I mean of course everyone's welcome to their opinion, but there's no rule for this thing. For one, people get paid for their art and/or hobbies all the time, so why not modding? And just because something was a certain way (modding is free) doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever. Things evolve and change over time.

-The number of people who have come out against monetization of mods, claiming that "if it was optional I would totally do it, but because you're demanding money it's not worth it" is laughable. MANY big mods have donate buttons on sites like Nexus and even Steam. Yet time and again I've read reports from mod authors talking about how they've made maybe $20 in donations for HUNDREDS of HOURS worth of work in the CK. Most mods on Nexus have a 10-to-1 download to endorsemant ratio (with many far worse than that). This includes the top mods, the mods that are almost universally seen as "great". If 90% of people are too lazy or don't care enough to press an endorsemant button, it makes it really hard to believe all these people claiming they would donate money if it was optional WHEN IT ALREADY IS AN OPTION IN MANY CASES.

-I am 100% in favor of mod authors making money. TotalBiscuit said in his commentary video on this subject that people should have a right to be paid for their work and I agree. Bethesda profits from mods because they help increase sales. Youtubers profit from mods by reviewing them or playing them in LPs and monetizing their channels. But the actual mod author can't or shouldn't make any money? That's ridiculous. This entire model seems very poor to me for a slew of reasons, but to say that they shouldn't make money is absurd.

-How much a mod is worth or should be sold for is something I hope that the rules of supply and demand will settle in time. I wouldn't get upset at the current prices on Steam since 1) most of the SUGGESTED PRICES aren't the same as the MINIMUM prices if you click the arrow button and 2) as the market expands (which it will if successful, otherwise it fails and all this is a nonissue) and there is greater competition, prices will fall.

-I don't think charging for mods will allow consumers to demand better mod support. Bethesda still ship buggy games and don't bother patching everything, yet we still pay for them. All we can do is vote with our wallets, and this will probably be true of monetized mods.

And finally, some long-reaching worries:

-This has divided the community. This is the only concrete effect I see as 100% certain. I constantly hear about how ugly things got in the SIMS modding community, and while I've never cared enough to look up what exactly happened, I am worried that this could cause a permanent fracture (yes I know the community already has a variety of fractions. That doesn't change my point).

-This could be the death of the Nexus & other 3rd party mod hosts. If Beth & Valve really want to earn serious money from mods, rivals like Nexus hurt them. And we all know Valve is quite comfortable with the idea of monopoly.

-Alternatively, Beth could partner with sites like Nexus and implement a similar system. This might be the best, though most unlikely, potential outcome.

-The monetized option could be applied retroactively to Beth's back catalogue. It almost certainly will apply to their games going forward (perhaps mandatory rather than an option).

-How this could affect Bethesda's support of future games is questionable. Will they focus less on DLC when there are DLC mods for people to buy? Will Bethesda worry even less about finding and fixing bugs when now people can be paid to make bug fixing mods? Or perhaps will they do a better job of supporting games since now there's less guarantee that they'll be patched for free for all users to enjoy?

I had a lot more to say, but I've run out of STEAM. Sorry for the tl;dr.

[Sylvia Luciani]

Just read this on the SkyrimMods subreddit "I just want to emphasize the SKSE point: The SKSE creators do not care. They do not think this is a disgusting move. They do not have problems with people requiring SKSE in their paid mods. They will be making a workshop version of SKSE. They have not been paid off." He says "One of the SKSE devs said that in irc" Who knows what to believe, but still...

Very disappointed. If any team had a good hold on what could change, it would be the SKSE team.

[RObert loVes MOmmy]

You guys do know Art of the Catch is not being sold anymore because of Fore did not give permission for FNIS to be used on paid mods, right?

[Kortknee Bell]

The SKSE team's position is disappointing. If they had opposed this, almost no major mod would have been able to be monetized, as most of them depend on SKSE these days.

[Tessa Mullins]

and for that i have great respect for fore..... i hope skse team will do the same modding should be free

[Stephanie Nieves]

....and so it begins...

[CORY]

I'm done purchasing video games from Bethesda Softworks.

Allowing mods to be sold just ruined their reputation.

I'm never going to be a Bethesda Softworks customer ever again and that is my final decision.

[Gracie Dugdale]

I too am surprised by this. But they have not announced anything official, yet. So, who knows?

[Jade]

So from the company that gave us Horse Armor DLC almost a decade ago and led the way for all the terrible anti-consumer practices that have followed, we now get to pay for the privilege of playing the broken and boring games we, the community, fix while you enjoy the profits and do none of the work, share none of the risk and take none of the responsibility.

SHAME ON YOU BETHESDA, THIS IS DISGRACEFUL.

Why don't you come out and confirm for everyone now so we can understand just how underhanded and shady you are being, and how little this has to do with supporting the modding community: Will the next Bethesda Softworks game be moddable exclusively through Steam Workshop?

[Charlotte Lloyd-Jones]

Yes, I think i owe one for Fore. Sadly he does not receive donations. I was going to donate to him even if it by a small amount if he did.

[Gill Mackin]

Link please? I don't know how it's possible to make a workshop version of SKSE.

[Darren]

I haven't play the video game for quite a while due to college, so I was out of the loop until I found out about paid mods through a few of my classmates earlier this morning. Anyways, I log in to respond to R'lyeh Liberation Front's comment:

It is going to happen some times. As I stated earlier, a few classmates of mine are quite pissed off about this paid-mods nosense, and they're planning to do this PDS (pay-download-share) with the public via torrenting, lockers or something else. They set up some kind of "donation" locally today, and they already have several hundreds dollars in their pockets because of it (mostly from college students). I'm not exactly happy with either ways: pirated mods or paid mods. There'll be an ugly battle ahead of us.

I've donated some to the modders in the past, and I definitely will donate some more in the future. Steam modders will not get any thing from me (why should I? Valve and Bethesda eat up 75% of our money while donation goes to non-steam modders 100%).

Cheers,

Dakkon

[Sierra Ritsuka]

This.