Discussion for Workshop Paid Mods - Thread 4 : V - Skyrim

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:15 am

Gone through your blog post and sorry I disagree that it will be small impact for modmakers. It was desasterous as it happend for Sims 2 and it will happen here too. Greed, Greed never changes :fallout:

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:45 am

I think this is a very reasonable and well thought out post.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:39 am

Who does business in the EU has to respect EU laws, same for every country in the world.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:26 pm

It was considerably less so on both counts last night.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:56 pm

So what? They sell games in the EU. Those sales are subject to EU laws. Valve is already in hot water because of that. Their home country isn't a defense.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:18 am

That's true, but as long Valve offer their services and products to EU customers then EU rules applies whether Valve like it or not. The same thing applies for Bethesda as well.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:58 am

Exactly. If they don't agree to the EU law they can take their shoddy business practices elsewhere.

Steam has even a clause in their end user contract that people agreeing to the term of use of Steam cannot participate in class actions against Valve! I'm told that this kind of clauses may be legal in the US and but certainly not here in Europe, where you cannot waive your individual rights, not even if you make an informed decision and sign a contract.

(That's why I'm thankful I live in a country where individual freedoms and rights are still valued a bit more than the lobbyist's interests.)

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:11 pm

Could i basically take someones mod (for example a person that hasnt replied for a long time assuming that same person isn′t not going to continue his/her workand log on to steam) and claim its my own, selling it in the workshop? I mean how high is the risk of getting sued?

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:14 am

See QA the fourth one down http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1516784-skyrim-workshop-now-supports-paid-mods/#entry23942002

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:34 am

Yes... actually, whether or not that's enforceable in the US is unknown. Also, this is so not something I think I'd want to complain about, but meh. Go sue Valve in the EU if you think it worthwhile. It's not like the EU isn't shy about enforcing it's will on US companies.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:17 pm

People are already doing it.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:01 pm

It's funny to imagine the unofficial patches requiring payment, with Bethesda getting paid for someone else doing their job.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:04 pm

I'm also considering not buying future Bethesda games. Despite TES being my favorite games so far.

I'll certainly think both once, twice and thrice before buying anything on Steam.

If I'll buy future Bethesda games or not, depends on what will happen.

If mod sites like Nexus will remain, then yes I might buy the games and continue uploading my (free) mods on these other sites.

If mods become Steam Workshop only content, then NO WAY.

As for people on Workshop uploading stolen content and them having the right to do so as long as the content was free... No one wants to buy something they can get for free somewhere else, so hopefully mod users will check if there's a free version available before buying anything.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:26 am

Thats not going to happen

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:04 pm

Looking at what happend with UOP (there was a lot of unneeded quarrel about "how you can't use the patch that I made" or "you have ripped of my glorious and so special patch") for NV I wouldn't be so sure about that.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:09 pm

I wouldn't be so sure.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:02 pm

I only slept about four hours last night because I woke up and my mind started churning over this mess. I'd like to believe that this won't significantly damage the modding community, but I'm having difficulty convincing myself. Words of assurance that this won't kill modding as we know it ring about as hollow as the empty promises of a corrupt politician with a severe honesty deficit.

"If you like your mods, you can keep your mods! If you like your Nexus, you can keep your Nexus! Period!"

Bethesda really needs to release a clarifying statement and assure the community that the creation kit and GECK will work as they always have, and that obtaining mods from private sites like the Nexus will always be supported and encouraged.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:38 pm

It'd never happen. The amount of content rights dispute that'd take place would be ridiculous and the unofficial patches have always been made out of a passion to improve the game for everyone.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:17 am

Arthmoor has already said the USKP will cost $0.00 USD. Publicly on Nexus

And as Silent Spike says it would be a nightmare

How would you also divvy up the profits among all of the many many community free contributers ( if they all agreed to it in the first instance, such a proposal would have to be checked with all because the original spirit of contributing to the Unofficial Patches would be changed ). How do you account one fix in cost versus another persons work. Is a code fix the same in value as the skills required to make texture or mesh fixes .. How does anyone account for the many hours they put into it even if everyone got an equal slice of the minimum wages per hour say .. It would be ridiculous

I certainly would not agree to it.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:27 pm

Was sadly not true for New Vegas for a very long time. Business changes the mind of people. Even some valueless internet points do.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:51 am

Probably not, but it's the same with most mods: it's not only bugs, but also bad design, lack of variety, and shallow gameplay which are the reason mods exist in the first place. It's amazing to consider Bethesda wouldn't fix/improve their game because it's not lucrative enough, and now, on the contrary, they'll get paid for not doing it.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:09 pm

Yeah it still amazes me companies get away with this even more and more as time goes on. I recal the Unreal Tournament 2004 Official patches where the company went all out to squash every bug that could be found .. I think they had a pretty comprehensive patch plus lots of extras to go with it ..

But that was the exception. Compare Bethesdas chum bucket of code, 4-5 official patches and the thousands of bugs that are left are the communities job because the company policy does not give a rats [censored] beyond the end of support period is up.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:23 pm

My Skyrim mods will always be free (once I release one, that is!) like they have always been.

But, and this is a very big but, one total conversion I have worked on will be an indie game. This is the sole exception and yes, I know, I would expect a lot of booing and hissing and the "you are a traitor!" shouting. Funnily enough, once I finished the agreements with the original creators, this was announced.

I will still release mods, though, and they will be free, aside from that exception. In fact, most of my mods take a long time from being finished to the release - some mods of mine never saw the light of someone else's eyes.

Now I don't like the paid for thing for virtually any type of Skyrim mod. I would pay for a choice and consequence overhaul and I would definitely pay for total conversions on Skyrim's engine. But where do we draw the line in terms of "overhaul"?

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:01 am

As others have said, the Unofficial Patches will remain free; that has already been established and isn't going to change.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:50 pm

What were Valve and Bethesda thinking!?

Payment carries certain expectations of quality, stability, compatibility, and ongoing support of the product you purchase. All things that modding absolutely cannot guarantee, for SO many reasons.

An influx of terrible money-grabbing mods is on the horizon, diluting mod quality to atrocious levels. Right now you can buy a mod called "extra apple" for $29.99. It adds an extra apple to the Bannered Mare. Certainly a joke mod, but it's a perfect indication of what to expect going forwards.

Furthermore this is only going to tear apart the modding community. Quality mods are ceasing to be updated on free sites like the Nexus, appearing with the latest versions only available on the Workshop for a fee. Other paid mods are using other author's assets without permission. Assets that were designed to encourage and support a healthy modding community based around free sharing and teamwork. All of this is going to hell.

A donation option would have been fine. Payments? There are just far too many expectations of quality, invitations for people to cash-grab and scam, and concerns over the health of such a robust modding community to support this. Whoever came up with this idea needs a stern talking to. They have no idea what they're doing, and have no concept of how the modding community operates.