Discussion for Workshop Paid Mods - Thread 5 : V

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:31 pm

Thread 5! Previous thread located here: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1516818-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-4/

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:08 am

Hmmm, I'm really thinking about quiting my job, return to my media cellar and start modding and charging people for it...but then...no, I'd feel like a prostitude.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:47 am

You'd be a dirty modder prosttute.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:15 am

You know what i think im done....ive wasted pretty much my whole morning on this subject and what will be will be.

Im gonna start a new skyrim game now for the 5000th time and play with my favorite mods and a few new ones and hope my game doesnt break( :smile: ) and just enjoy all that has been done for the game by the devs and modders everywhere.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:13 am

I'll repost this just in case nobody saw this in the last thread as it was one of the last posts, but I found this calculation on the /r/skyrimmods discussion thread:

Here's the totals (makes it easier to quote that way)

Totals

$5777.08 Total Revenue

$700 paid to 6 content creators

$744.27 content creator revenue being withheld

$1733.12 Profit for Valve

$2599.69 profit for Bethesda

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:30 am

Oh yeah, that doesn't look unfair or anything.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:24 am

Milking that cow for all its worth. All the while looking like the heroes for finally helping impoverished modders. What a joke.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:54 pm

Obviously EVERYONE should be paid for their work, right? Right?!

I'd like to see some of the supporters justify how volunteer moderators/admins are less worthy of monetary compensation than modders. 3, 2, 1, Go!

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:12 am

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

Seriously though, Bethesda already profits indirectly from modding, considering we extend the lifespan of their game, which allows them to sell more PC copies for alot longer. Them now wanting to directly profit from mods, is double dipping.

This change has already negatively impacted the modding community, since numerous modders have hidden/pulled their mods from Nexus, not to sell them on Steam, but to prevent them from being stolen and sold on Steam, which has already happened. The Nexus moderator, Dark0ne talks about it.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12454/?

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:48 pm

The people who are claiming self-entitlement are really not getting it. This 'paid mod' thing is actually not supporting the mod author at all. It's a complete exploitation of the modding community. It's an insult to the mod makers. THAT'S THE POINT we are trying to get across.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:46 am

A game developer has made http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/117200179771/what-is-your-opinion-on-priced-mods-on-steam-its excellent http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/117259074616/my-main-probably-with-the-whole-payed-modding-is on the subject. I'm going to paste the money part of the last one below:

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:39 am

As I mentioned too people who are part of the neighbourhood watch for example. They do a job patrolling etc. They're not paid, they do it for the community. If everyone looks out for each other everyone profits. Instead here we have big business using classic divide and conquer tactics.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:55 am

So we know for sure Beth and Valve planned it all along (from the start). :smile:

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:42 am

If Beth hired them to administrate the forums, then yes, indeed they should get payed...they work for it after all.

If not, they did it of free will and are allowed to ask for financial compensation. I don't see how I'm enforced to pay money for a Mod is free will. It's probably just a failure of juristical defintion on Beth side. Hence why I ask to change it to donation.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:14 am

That Shadow Scale Set requires you to get the set from the console.

Those guys have no idea what so ever how to mod.

Just sad.

» Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:01 pm

Sooooo basically, the many Makers of Skywind should hop on this, and everything will be honkey dorey. no cease in desist, no worrying about assets etc etc.

or am I trying a bit to hard.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:31 am

Excellent posts is debatable. Especially considering they think it's fine that the refund policy is terrible and that people should lose money/be robbed to moderate it. Complete ignorance. Also under EU law it is required for there to be a 14 day refund policy so what Valve are trying to do is completely illegal. Also what is to stop someone copying a mod for free? There is no copyright protection.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:47 am

Uh.. what? You want to tell me that game companies, all of them, are only in it for the greed?

No, it's demanding work for free. That is it in one form. You are asking people who mod to only release for free, and that is not your OR my call.

I'm actually saying that they can opt to charge if they want. They spent the time, it's their decision. Money is, at abstract, a way to pay for goods and services. A mod is a good. (okay, so that's actually very reduced but)

Up to the person making the mod. Some art IS actually meant to be sold and is generated as such. The content creator has the right to decide, not you or me.

No. This *is* a reductive strawman. I'm pretty sure I said it's their choice. If I choose to do volunteer work, I made the decision how to spend my hours. I could have also have chosen to get paid as part of a non-profit or for-profit company. The point is: I chose if I wanted to seek payment or not.

If they're selling you something, and you apparently treat all businesses the same, yes. Otherwise no. I buy posters from small mom and pop shops, for example, and I hold them to a different standard that I would if I went to the mall. But I'm pretty sure this is a strawman.

I didn't say this, so I don't know why you think I did.

K. This suggestion has but one outcome, the shutdown of all non Steam websites or at best, Beth creating their own mod website and forcing people to use one or the other with DMCAs. Steam nor Beth will patrol third party sites because then they become liable for anything that happens on them, and since they don't control them..

Well, I'm sure you can see where that path leads.

And Valve will care not that they lost a single customer. (An aside: This never really works, and if you think on it, you'll see why.)

Nah. The above posted figures are reason enough for them not to care. User feedback that isn't metrics is useless for making business decisions. It's why the best thing you can do if you dislike this is not to buy the mods on Steam. The lack of incoming money will show Beth and Valve this is a bad idea....

In any case, wow, I'm even more mixed on this. Nerevar's post is a good example of why they do what they do, but it still seems.. off.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:04 am

Imagine the mess that would create. People arguing who worked harder/worked more. Just creates rifts in the community.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:12 am

Moderators actually *are* compensated. Not with money, but they do get games and merchandise. Furthermore, these forums are some of the last game dev ones that use community volunteers, rather than having paid community managers handing the moderation.

This is from the last thread, but I was asleep. A year ago, if someone had said that Bethesda would charge for mods... I wouldn't have been surprised. That's probably the reason I'm not panicking now. This has been a possibility (a likelihood, even) since the launch of the Steam workshop. I've had time to think it over and decide that we, as a community, can adjust. Some people can earn money, other people can fail at earning money, other people can decide to keep things free. Unless everyone turns into a huge [censored] for no reason, we will keep collaborating and sharing ideas. Other freelancer communities have done the exact same thing. Skyrim isn't special because it's Skyrim.

Every modder should decide for themselves what system is best for them. No one has the right to tell them what to do.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:27 am

This is going to turn out a disaster.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:28 am

Now that is sad. Is it that hard to simply mod it into the crafting system? I mean, it's a really good system.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:14 am

LadyN, do you really believe most people who "kneejerk" to this are trying to Tell Modders what to do? honest question

do the Proponents of this move REALLY believe the "vitriol" (which isn't even at crescendo yet) is because the opponents think

MODDERS are the issue here.

because honestly that's Laughable (Not directed to you or anyone)

Modders by and large are the single beacon of hope this series has had for Years, its the one thing that hadn't changed. from DLC horse armor, streamlining, COD influences and questionable business practices dedicated to Xbox 360

MODDERS have been near well constant and reliable in the long haul.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:37 am

I think something good will come out of this.

» Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:33 am

I don't from previous experience.