[Lisa Robb]

[censored]. Considering most of the crap being shoveled out, you're just wildly speculating. Paying for mods doesn't ensure better mods, but it does ensurehttp://imgur.com/a/bqcla?gallery are fostered on the buying public in hopes of a quick sale.

I spent a lot of time on my mods and would be very angry if someone else were to take what I did and market it as their own. I've always modded in things either I wanted to see or that I saw requests for and thought they were good ideas. Do I like getting positive feedback and Internet fame? Of course I do. I'm human, and as such, I don't want negative feedback, I want people to love my work as much as I do. Knowing there are mod users who still use a mod I first released over 4 years ago makes me ecstatic, but that doesn't mean I'm going to charge for them. The only way I would charge for anything I create is if Bethesda contracted me to either create a mod for them to sell or work on a team with the same goal. Everything I make myself is simply for the joy of seeing my creations not only in my game but in other people's as well.

Where do I draw the line? I draw it at money. Internet fame is an intangible thing that can be gained or lost in a heartbeat. Money is a tangible item that we use for both needs and wants, hence the reason people get very upset when they feel they've spent their money on substandard products.

I fail to see the correlation between looking for endorsemants and asking for money. Again, fame is intangible and has no use outside of where it's earned; money, however, has uses everywhere and is required if one wants to live in a society that does not use the barter system or where everybody helps everybody else. I see no reason to pay someone for something someone else has already provided for free.

Oh, it will fail. If you want to support your favorite modder(s), consider donating to them instead of using this failed experiment. Again, it starts becoming a business once money is involved. Modding started out as a hobby and should stay that way.

[Kat Stewart]

No, I'd say that's correct. Well, apart from the "conspiracy" word. It's just business.

The trick is to make people pay for things that used to be free, while making it look like you're doing them a favor. Gradually they'll pay for everything and thank you for it.

It's the old boiling frog metaphor, only this time the water was too hot for the frog not to notice, but not hot enough to kill it instantly. So now it's hopping around the kitchen, making a mess everywhere

[Baby K(:]

The term "paid mod" is incorrect.

They should more correctly be referred to as "Third-Party Micro-Transactions".

[NO suckers In Here]

The problem is, the world is full of casuals or kids with free access to their parents' credit cards. Remember the uprising when Oblivion horse armor was released? What had it accomplished?

Now DLCs are the norm. Publishers are even locking some games features on the DVD to be sold later as DLC, for crying out loud!

Season passes? Same story...

For a minority of people who stays true to their principles and uses their wallets wisely, there is a vast majority of sheep who line up and happily march towards the slaughterhouse, some even happy to be there!

[Honey Suckle]

How can you believe this? "really really outstanding 10x level Falskar Mods" will never happen in the paid mods system. They take to much time to be made and the 25% share of the "cake" allowed to the modders will never make for it.

[Lauren Graves]

Modifying files are illegal, that's the reasoning of SKSE team for why they chose to just stay silent. The official DLCs were released as masters, meaning without 3rd party tools you'd never be able to modify the files. And yes, I consider Windows Explorer's ability to rename files 3rd party tool.

People had mixed feelings on that particular EULA back when CK was released, people feared that Beth will suddenly take over years of work and make the Devil blush. Eventually, that feeling disappeared as Beth never monetized the mods, now that's changing

So you say "that's in the EULA, you're the fool for not heeding it", well guess what? You'd be right. I'd be wrong for making assumptions, and everybody will simply make it very hard for people to find mods instead of the current open way.

I don't see how that'd be good for anyone

EDIT: TES5EDIT was built by having people dump data from simple plug-ins created using CK for specific record types and anolyze that, that's why TES5EDIT can edit records and generally don't break your file. If that is not "reverse-engineer", then what do you call reverse-engineer?

[Kayleigh Mcneil]

I agree the term seems grammatically incorrect. 'Paid mods' as in purchased mods but they are just for sale. I wish there was a better term that made more literal sense. I haven't paid and don't intend to pay so how are these 'paid mods'. The term doesn't read right or roll off the tongue. It sounds like it breaks the rules of the English language.

The term seems to describe the hasty nature of the implementation of this 'thing'. They didn't even language or definitions for this monstrosity. It implies they didn't rushed out sure that they would make a heavy profit and they believed with out research that we would happily accept it. So now we have this silly sounding term that seems to suggest that these corporate guys think we are very naive. Its a stupid word probably meant to euphemistic but sounds more dysphemistic.

The fact that the language for is sounds so stupid and rushed shows a lot about the thinking of the people that implemented this.

[Ashley Clifft]

Ladyonthemoon is who said it, Emma quoted her.

[BEl J]

One of the best ways to contain this thing,is to be very vocal about it and how it will affect the games of people. Semi finished mods and mods that haven't passed a true quality check for selling are unacceptable. Noone in his right mind would bother to even glance at them, if he knew that there was no guarantee that the mods he bought will work correctly and won't bomb his game.

Anyone who asks you about where to find mods, tell him Nexus or Tesgeneral or any similar site. Tell him to avoid Steam Workshop. Explain the reasons. Every day people ask in reddit, here, Nexus, "whats the best mods to get" "where can i get them" . When everyone is informed and getting informed about the risk they taking with Steam the whole thing will become a joke. Only kids who wanna give 2 $ for a glowing sword will do. And even those kids,when they see their friends have a TON of awsome swords for "freeeeeeeeeeee", they'll get angry and go yell at Steam Workshop about how expensive they are, and why they ain't free.

Take heart my friends. We can't close the Steram Workshop paid service. WE CAN show to people what it really is.We can inform. We can joke about it. Reddicule it. Not use it for us and our kids. Explain our friends why it's bad. Go to Reddit and post your opinions. Many are there too. Tthere are people of quality that aint just "silly kids" (i'm a kid at heart and a bit silly though)

Be vocal! Big corporations dont care about angry people who just are angry and sad in a forum (even more if it's the company's site). Theyy're waiting for us to get tired, accept it as inevitable and move on in time. Yah, the same process as when you get around 30-32 and realise you really are growing older. It's all calculated and taken

[candice keenan]

Yep!

Emma's words are "In order to grow in quality rather than in quantity, modding has to be a labour of love, not a labour for money."

[Caroline flitcroft]

Sorry at work ,it cut it in half.

in account. "They will yell and get angry then will blow off, while we still do business as usual, lets see how it goes". Bethesda forums is the forums that people go the LEAST! Very few visit here,and when they do, they usually do a question or 2,get their answers and disappear. Those who stay, are mostly those who love the people here.

You can abstain from bying Steam products for sometime. You can fill some reports and petitions, go to Steam Workshop and fload it with negative revews of the offered products(mods), if they are bad. It's not a lie,it's providing the truth as you have an obligation as a modder and a decent human being.

Bottom line. protect the younger , weaker, uninformed of us. Who will give a ***ton of money for silly stuff like"oo a red sword!" or a completely broken mod and lose his time and money. That will hate mods cause "they break my game". Yelling on the street isn't civilized but yelling and complaining (in a mature way) to various places and informing is and can and will have results. At the very least, we CAN Force Beth/Valve to do implement a true quality check mechanism. Else they are doomed to have a failed experiment in the end.

The worse for us is to get tired,disappoined,say "damn it Beth!" and move on. Only then "they" will have won, and they'll be able to mold the whole situation in the most profitable way for them (but who knows if it's the best way for the customers too e? ). So yah, get in the mix, and control it.

Th

[Mackenzie]

That's how I'm interpreting it as well. If I were to put up a paid mod on the Workshop at some point in the future, I'd be setting the minimum donation amount to $0.00 so that people can choose to download it outright or chip in what they feel is fair. The main one I have in mind is alchemy-related, so that would take a fair amount of scripting to work out, particularly for what I have pictured in my mind as to how it'd work right now. It'd be somewhat similar to the Oblivion alchemy system, as a hint.

[Genevieve]

I can safely bet that this will never be allowed. x% of 0 = 0

[Heather Dawson]

True, but I'd be more comfortable ethically about it if it is possible.

[Miss Hayley]

Gabe makes a response. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avr1EZNsg8I

[Astargoth Rockin' Design]

Free mods are still allowed on the Workshop, so I don't see why it couldn't. Is there currently a minimum price for the 'pay what you want' option?

[Chloe Botham]

By the way, I was reading reddit and someone pointed out a very good problem:

If Skyrim were ever to be released on something that does not require steam, they'll never be able to access the paid mods in steam.

This would cause a huge vendor lock-in problem. Steam is slowly but surely dominating the PC digital distribution, this "feature" would effectively kill competition by virtue of not having access to extra content.

As much as I like Steam Summer Sale, that should never happen

You can change "Skyrim" to "Fallout 4" if you think Skyrim will never be released somewhere else

[Tiffany Carter]

Yep for all valves whinging about Microsoft creating a closed system it is what they have then gone and done themselves. Which is why the issue is much broader than free or paid mods.

If Bethesda thought paid mods were such a good idea why didn't they put their high res textures up for sale? They could have led by example instead of letting some modders be made an example of.

I really don't see why they didn't release some really high quality mods for the day one release as something to aspire to rather than over powered weapons?

[Amy Siebenhaar]

Ack. My apologizes! I'll edit my post and my signature. Thanks for correcting me!

[Nienna garcia]

Future Bethesda games will not be released outside Steam, we already expected that and the Workshop situation further confirms it. But yes, it does give Steam even more power and potentially a monopoly on mod distribution. Yet another reason to be worried about it.

[lauren cleaves]

Barring Xbox and PlayStation

The monopoly on modding is a concern with such poor curation

[matt oneil]

It looks like Valve and Bethesda refuse to budge on this issue. I'm going to be forced to boycott Bethesda. That and continue to get pissed off as much as I can. This is tearing the community apart. As for Steam I'm going to have to consider boycotting it over this mod issue. Now do I stop playing games on its service all togeather, or continue to play existing ones. For sure no more will be purchased.

Edit

I'm going to miss Fallout 4, but if this is what need to be done to show them. Then so be it. All i can do is hope people follow in the peoples footsteps who won't stand for this.

A rebel alliance is needed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xPZigWFyK2o

[Keeley Stevens]

You are absolutely right . I just quoted LadyOnTheMoon, which was stated in the first line of my post.

But, the first one who said this was actually http://lovkullen.net/Emma/gb_frame.htm, a highly respected modder back in the Morrowind era, the one who among other things invented warping companions. He was my closest friend in the community, and therefore it was extra heartwarming to see that for some of us, the spirit of sharing still lives on. I'm sure there are some direct quotes in old posts in my forum where he uses these words, but the closest I found now is when I am quoting him in my words of rememberance.

In this era of monetarizing mods, maybe we should also spend a few minutes reading http://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html thoughts on Cathedral versino Parlor view on modding, a view also totally built on the idea that you have to share knowledge in order to expand and move forward.

EDIT: Of course it doesn't really matter who said what first, but in this era of selling mods for money, it might be good to point out that it is the *sharing* perspective that has built the knowledge-base in this community for 13 years. That sharing knowledge for free has very strong roots in Elder Scrolls-modding.

[Lily Something]

Curation? You're giving VALVe far too much credit

VALVe explicitly stated that they'll do the least amount of work possible and leave the curating to the end users. That is, the people that considers whether a mod is worthy of getting into workshop are the people that will shell out money

[Rebekah Rebekah Nicole]

It also makes it near impossible to find asset thieves and when thieves are found it's not going to go over well and we're the ones expected to deal with this drama, not Valve. Valve and Bethesda are leaving the entire policing of the thing to the players who have to buy the mod in order to figure out if someone stole assets or not or are breaking the TOS.

So in the end in order for a mod resource artist to find if someone is selling their assets they need to waste money buying as much mods as possible and end up going broke or have their work stolen and leaving them powerless. We might as well end mod resources as a thing if that's the case.