[Elizabeth Lysons]

Previous thread http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1516943-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-13/

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Edit most recent update courtesy of our old oblivion friend mankar camoran.

Bethesda's most recent statement.

http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyrim-mods-on-steam/

Also revealed only 8% of players have used a mod. This puts total mod users at around 640,000, which really puts the 133,000 signed petition into a greater perspective.

[alyssa ALYSSA]

Spin. And they didn't exactly deny any future intent to tie all mods to STEAM, did they?

[Danial Zachery]

Doesn't seem like it. They only said they're as anti DRM as they can be.

[Nauty]

I'm pretty sure the bit about choice is what I would look for..

[Casey]

In response to this post linking to the Bethblog: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1516943-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-13/?p=23948107

Thank you for the link.

[Shiarra Curtis]

Go back and reread the nuances in what was said.

[sally R]

Here's one argument for the idea.

Say a mod creator has an idea but no more free time to dedicate to making it. With the incentive of earning a few coppers, they decide to proceed with the project. A project that would otherwise never have come about.

It could be a great mod, it could be [censored]. But you don't have to use it.

[jessica robson]

Unless they can match CDProjectRed / GOG. Does not really mean much to me.

As far as i'm concerned i had to go through steam if i wanted to play skyrim.

I really wish there were other options.

[Hayley Bristow]

I'm curious about the data that Bethesda says Valve initially showed them that proved that paid user content was "hugely positive", what games are they talking about ? TF2, Counter Strike, DOTA? Maybe some Flight Sims? I genuinely don't know.

"This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue. "
Well it was just the first two or three days, there are barely any mods worth something on it.


However, they made it clear that they won't shut down Nexus or something:
"There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. "
It countinues as:
"Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop then he made in all the years he asked for donations."
That is perhapse true, since not even donations were the "norm" a couple of years ago, I think with this recent development mod authors or modding teams with big ambitions can be more upfront and ask for money through Patron or even kickstarter for those big quest mods. Atleast all the money would go to them. The downside of those are their rather chaotic nature, having a system in place for authors that want to monetise their work in and of itself is not a bad thing, it's an option for people and I understand Bethesda angle on this in general.
I'm happy that Nexus will remain, because I could not physically endure Workshop system and it's auto updates and complete and utter lack of control it gives the user.

[Kelvin Diaz]

I did. They're pretty clear.

[Albert Wesker]

Seems black and white to me...

"Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM’d and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we’re anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don’t know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM."

[Hairul Hafis]

The blog is confusing

However I do not agree that modders are developers - they have none of the protection that a company can afford to provide for a start. Yet modders are repeatedly referred to in the post as developers. I have never aspired to be a developer - I am an amateur who enjoys messing around the game as a hobby.

The blog says that only 8% of Skyrim players have ever experienced a mod and only 1% have even made one therefore they wanted to move a free model to a paid one because that would increase the use of mods? I don't get that and I've tried re-reading it - the first way i read it was aggressive and they were saying who really cares

I think they then try ans say that Valve suggested paid mods increase the market base - all I can see is that paid mods increase the revenue share not the number of people using mods - like any unethical gaming company that preys on 'whales' some will pay thousands for mods because they cannot stop themselves.

How naive though to say that the workshop would bring out the best in modding - Early access certainly didn't bring out the best in game design - looking at the mods pending as paid they don't look like the best of the best to me even discounting the protest ones. If anything the quality of mods seems to be going down not up.

[Leonie Connor]

I don't know who wrote this but the description fits my own perception of the future of modding as far as Bethesda made games are concerned, at least to ones to come.

[Shannon Marie Jones]

I spotted three lies in the blogpost

Lie #1: Bethesda Loves Modders so much, they took a financial hit by allowing the ESRB to rerate Oblivion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB_re-rating_of_The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion

Bethesda had to allow Oblivion's rating change because of content they had left in. Modders were only involved in so far as they exposed the content that was already in the game. But to say that Oblivion modders were responsible for the ESRB rerating is a gross libel.

Lie #2: Valve has done much to solve problems regarding content theft.

Stolen mods get released on Workshop all the freaking time, and they are often allowed to stay on there for a long time. Oddly enough, I rarely encounter stolen content on the Nexus, despite the fact that Nexus is a larger and more active mod community, and the fact that Nexus is not a multi-billion dollar corporation like Valve is. Valve does diddly squat in policing their communities, and only get involved when it begins to be a PR problem.

Lie #3: Bethesda is anti-DRM

We all know this is false. For one, Fallout 3 shipped with GFWL, which is even worse DRM than Steam. Yes, Bethesda, Steam is DRM. If you are so anti-DRM as you claim to be, put your money where your mouth is and release your games on GOG.

BONUS:

This is probably true...if you factor in console players, who cannot use mods anyways. It's curious that Bethesda did not specify that they were talking about PC Skyrim players.

[Tarka]

I believe they included console players in this number. Even counting only the Workshop, Pure Waters currently has 830k subscribers, which translates to 10.375 mln players if 8% refers only to PC. Actually, I think current subs is total subs (because we had unique subs count as well at one point), but even so, it's only one mod.

[Brooks Hardison]

Exactly. If they expect us to pay for mods they better make sure that it's treated like something that should be paid for. Quality Assurance, constant updating, maximum compatibility, excetra.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Modders shouldn't start modding games to make money, you do it for one of two reasons (Maybe even both actually). One, you love the game and community and want to see it grow and get stronger. Two, you are making mods to pad out a portfolio for a career in game development. For the past 10+ years mods haven't been paid and amazing things have come out of it. It's like becoming a plumber and getting upset when you have to mess with people's toilets. If you can't handle it, don't do it. It doesn't mean much, but I'm currently working on a webcomic. When I finally start releasing it, I don't expect to make money off it. I'm doing it for the same two reasons I stated above. Set up donations? Sure. I'd never lock it behind a paywall though.

[sarah simon-rogaume]

Yes i noticed that they were blaming modders for the loss of millions

According to the official ESRB notice this is not the case

[:)Colleenn]

According to Wikipedia, Skyrim had sold 20 million copies by June 2013, and the launch sale statistics were about 59% Xbox, 27% PS3, and 14% PC. While both these stats are from years ago, I imagine the ratios would be pretty similar, and that the game sales have not passed 25 million since then.

So yeah, the only way the 8% figure makes sense is if you factor in console players.

[Joie Perez]

But isn't "Easier to access" not having them behind a paywall?

[ILy- Forver]

you must have played a different Oblivion than the one I have here on my shelf, it did not contain Securom, just a standard disc check

[Milad Hajipour]

Why should modders only start modding games for the two reasons you've given? I'm just curious, since you didn't give a reason why.

[Damian Parsons]

I believe Securom only applied to the installer. After that it used the disc check.

[Marguerite Dabrin]

No, you're the one who must've played a different Oblivion. Oblivon HAD SecuROM, that is not up to debate. That is fact.

http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&q=oblivion+securom

[Susan]

Googling oblivion and securom shows me that many users had problems with it, though I can't find official confirmation. I'll edit my post since I am not sure if it was in or to what extent.

Fallout 3, however, shipped with GFWL. So my point still stands.

[christelle047]

No - it's in fact, and one has to assume deliberately, not clear.

What they said is that DRM and the elimination of free mods is "the opposite of what (they) stand for." They didn't even address what they intend to DO.