Disenchanting! : V - Skyrim

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:01 pm

Though I do like making my own spells, I can see where Todd is coming from--spellmaking does sort of cheat the system.

Behold my Heartfire Proxy / Touch Combo:

Heartfire Proxy (Daedric Londsword - Weakness to Fire 100% for 5 seconds on strike)
Heartfire Touch (Spell - Deal 100 Fire Damage on touch)

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:03 pm

Behold my Heartfire Proxy / Touch Combo:

Heartfire Proxy (Daedric Londsword - Weakness to Fire 100% for 5 seconds on strike)
Heartfire Touch (Spell - Deal 100 Fire Damage on touch)

Yeah, see, this is what I mean. I think it would make more sense if you had to work your way up in order to make spells. Here's an example: If you want to make a spell in destruction, you have to be a master in destruction. A system like that would allow us to make spells, but we have to earn that ability. It wouldn't make sense for a novice to just go out and make a spell that gives them the power of a god, you know? :flamethrower:

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:31 pm

why not just give the option to forge a lookalike, and enchant that. then unique weapons can stay with their enchantments, and you can have your lookalike and make it do whatever you'd like.

Absolutely, there's no reason why Bethesda can't compromise. The artifacts would still feel unique (especially if they had unique colors, so that people could have the same design but the color would be either moderately or grocely different, depending). That's why I feel the idea is a good one, because the devs have the power to do things like that. They can basically do whatever they want with the game and within that, there's a lot of different ways to handle it.

At the core, the ordinary weapons should be disenchantable, and it seems like most people in this thread agrees with it. So, if nothing else, then I would greatly appreciate if Bethesda at least implemented that. As said, I would personally like to see the artifacts be disenchanted also, OR (as you said) have non-artifact uniques (replicas of the artifacts) so that people who are concerned about the artifacts losing their "divine feel" would be respected - BUT - if artifacts can't be disenchanted, then at least the ordinaries will and that's more than enough to satisfy me. The rest is just sugar on top.

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:42 am

The game Redguard made Enchanting seem very similar to resurrection or necromancy.

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:15 am

im tierd of recharging weapons

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:49 am

The game Redguard made Enchanting seem very similar to resurrection or necromancy.

Well, if you think about it, enchanting really is a form of necromancy--binding a soul to an item to give it magical powers? Maybe it's not technical necromancy, but it's not far from it...

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:24 am

Here's an example: If you want to make a spell in destruction, you have to be a master in destruction.

I think this should be true for Enchanting as well. E.g. the magnitude of a Fire Damage enchantment could be determined by the Enchanting and Destruction skills in unison. E.g. need to have both skills at Master-level in order to enchant with Master-level Fire Damage.

Well, if you think about it, enchanting really is a form of necromancy--binding a soul to an item to give it magical powers? Maybe it's not technical necromancy, but it's not far from it...

Interestingly enough, the word Necromancy literally means "Corpse Divination" (necros "corpse" and manteia "prophecy").

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:57 am

I think this should be true for Enchanting as well. E.g. the magnitude of a Fire Damage enchantment could be determined by the Enchanting and Destruction skills in unison. E.g. need to have both skills at Master-level in order to enchant with Master-level Fire Damage.

if I'm not mistaken, I believe that's already a requirement. In Oblivion, there were many times that I went to enchant something, and I wasn't allowed to use the spell I wanted because I had not yet earned the ability to cast that spell.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:47 pm

if I'm not mistaken, I believe that's already a requirement. In Oblivion, there were many times that I went to enchant something, and I wasn't allowed to use the spell I wanted because I had not yet earned the ability to cast that spell.

True, but that was only for the spell effect itself, not its magnitude. I think it should be true for the latter as well.

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:54 am

True, but that was only for the spell effect itself, not its magnitude. I think it should be true for the latter as well.

Okay, I see what you're saying. The only problem with that is that it's the size of the soul you're using that affects the magnitude of the spells you enchant with. But if there was some way to work out some sort of compromise with that system, it would make sense...

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:15 am

Unique items are just that, unique. You shouldnt be able to customize them. They would no longer be what they were intended to be.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:31 pm

It would be nice to be able to do this, at least with custom made enchantments, this way, if you no longer want the enchantment you placed in an item but want to use the item for some other enchantment, you could remove it, I'd say, however, that it should NOT apply to artifacts, because those items are unique, they're not supposed to be just random items with nice enchantments, they're distinct items that have some sort of significance, removing their enchantments would remove part of what makes them what they are, common items can be disenchanted (Though I'd say this should cause the soul used in the enchanting proccess to be lost so that you can't just go back on it if you decide you want to keep the item after all. Artifacts, however, should stay unique.

While we're on the subject, I wouldn't complain about being able to release souls from soul gems, because it gets annoying when you find a grand soul gem while looting a dungeon and then find that it's filled with a petty soul, this is of course assuming soul gems are still used, if Bethesda has chosen a different method of enchanting now, there's no point in discussing that as we have been given no indication as to what it could be.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:38 pm

Absolutely, there's no reason why Bethesda can't compromise. The artifacts would still feel unique (especially if they had unique colors, so that people could have the same design but the color would be either moderately or grocely different, depending). That's why I feel the idea is a good one, because the devs have the power to do things like that. They can basically do whatever they want with the game and within that, there's a lot of different ways to handle it.

At the core, the ordinary weapons should be disenchantable, and it seems like most people in this thread agrees with it. So, if nothing else, then I would greatly appreciate if Bethesda at least implemented that. As said, I would personally like to see the artifacts be disenchanted also, OR (as you said) have non-artifact uniques (replicas of the artifacts) so that people who are concerned about the artifacts losing their "divine feel" would be respected - BUT - if artifacts can't be disenchanted, then at least the ordinaries will and that's more than enough to satisfy me. The rest is just sugar on top.

ahh compromise... how i have missed the peaceful end to a dispute hahaha

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:17 pm

Okay, I see what you're saying. The only problem with that is that it's the size of the soul you're using that affects the magnitude of the spells you enchant with. But if there was some way to work out some sort of compromise with that system, it would make sense...

Nah, the souls could be like XBOX 360 (ok hear me out, I know that sounded insane lol). The 360 has a certain potential, but the games that started coming out for it are much less advanced than the games that it can potentially handle.

So by that logic, the 360 would be the Grand Soul Gem. But within that, the skills would determine how much juice you could get out of a grand soul. The lowest amount would be just above "Greater Soul" in strength (but require Expert Enchanting to even use). OR, the strengths stay the same as in Oblivion, but the "enchanment points" total would be the thing affected by the system.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:06 pm

Nah, the souls could be like XBOX 360 (ok hear me out, I know that sounded insane lol). The 360 has a certain potential, but the games that started coming out for it are much less advanced than the games that it can potentially handle.

So by that logic, the 360 would be the Grand Soul Gem. But within that, the skills would determine how much juice you could get out of a grand soul. The lowest amount would be just above "Greater Soul" in strength (but require Expert Enchanting to even use). OR, the strengths stay the same as in Oblivion, but the "enchanment points" total would be the thing affected by the system.

okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I guess that could be an option.

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:03 am

Lore supports this.
In the Wolf Queen, Potema has a piece of jewellry re-enchanted at a mages guild.

It would be nice I guess. Means you dont have to go find a new deadric sword if you make a mistake.
Maybe you could have it done at one of the two mages organisations, for a price.

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:08 am

I want disenchant on target, so I can make an opponent weaker.

I would like to disenchant my own weapons and armor as well. I hate finding a really nice weapon, only for it to have a lousy enchantment.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:02 pm

On your own weapons that you enchanted yourself, yes. But on other weapons, especially unique weapons. Unique weapons (artifacts) are supposed to be the most powerful and special weapons in the world, with unique effects.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:18 pm

I haven't played Oblivion in a while... But i think you used soul gems to create items..... I think the only way of disenchanting should be to take the soul out of the object and put it in another..... But doing so is only for the most skilled...

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:57 am

As a few others have said, I agree with everything except the disenchanting unique weapons. Things like Umbra and Dawnfang/Duskfang, for example, should remain just as they are. Other than that, excellent ideas! :goodjob:

If you add a disenchantment feature it would be more work to disable it on some items, loads of unique weapons in Oblivion and Morrowind was nothing special except that they had a name. It would probably set so you could not disenchant items with scripts on them like Dawnfang, Umbra just use a bad enchantment.

I support this, mainly as all artifact weapons in Oblivion was worse than a sigil stone enchanted daeric weapon. In Morrowind it was actually worse as many enemies had reflect magic so you don't wanted to use anything else than absorb health on your main weapon.

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:39 pm

i want to disenchant so so it doesnt say the item doesnt have enough power whenever i attack after it has run out

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:43 pm

On your own weapons that you enchanted yourself, yes. But on other weapons, especially unique weapons. Unique weapons (artifacts) are supposed to be the most powerful and special weapons in the world, with unique effects.

All artifact weapons in Oblivion was worse than a sigil stone enchanted daeric weapon. In Morrowind it was actually worse as many enemies had reflect magic so you don't wanted to use anything else than absorb health on your main weapon at high levels, yes other effects was more powerful but you don't care much of doing lots of damage to weak enemies, it's the high end enemies who are the problem.

If you add a disenchantment feature it would be more work to disable it on some items, loads of unique weapons in Oblivion and Morrowind was nothing special except that they had a name and a custum design. It would probably set so you could not disenchant items with scripts on them like Dawnfang,

This would just be useful for unique looking weapons, it's no reason to use it on common weapon types, you have multiple so you just sell the old one and make a new, only exception would be things like high end armor in Morrowind where it was limited number of them.

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:07 am

i want to disenchant so so it doesnt say the item doesnt have enough power whenever i attack after it has run out

you can use soul gems to get your power back, but it must have a soul in it...

» Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:13 am

I hope Bethesda is following this thread, because there's a lot of good input here and it seems like most people want disenchanting in some form or another. Damn, I should've made a thread. Too late, ah well

» Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:57 pm

okay, its a single player game. i get that. but just because its a single player game doesnt mean you should be able to do everything you want. thats why BGS takes things out, because its not balanced. and please dont tell me balance isnt important in a single player game because you would be very very wrong, and i have much more faith in your intelligence than that. daedric artifacts are timeless.. goldbrand, azura's star (not a weapon, i know) wabbajack, they all were the tools of gods... and i dont think gods would be very appreciative of you spitting on their creations... and i dont get what you mean by one player group can do what they want with disenchanting if restrictions are put in place.

i get you wanna take umbra and put fire damage or whatever... but thats not umbra. umbra has been a part of the last two TES games, and possibly more, why should there be the option do destroy it now? freedom? okay, well i wanna transform into a dragon and spit fire upon cities.

players need to be giving certain limitations to what they can do. thats why levitation will not be put in, and why the soultrap glitch wont be put in. its for balance... now i'm not saying disenchanting unique weapons would break the game, it would make it decidedly less of a 'real' and believeable place because you can just take concrete things and figuratively turn them to dust.

would you be happy taking a sword that looked like umbra and enchanting that?

How dare you... ?...
All it needs is for npc AI to A: (if they have one) cast a levitation spell. ,B: Run away. Or C: shoot us with a bow/spell/throwing weapon/ crossbow (please add 'em!!!)...
I also think there should be a constant chance for the spell to fail and for you to fall... it should be determined by A: Fatigue. ,B: Alteration. And C: wether your being attacked...

Also I'd like a spell for it... either the spell would weaken the enchantment (if its Disintergrate enchantment 50% for 5 sec it should be: turning fire 1 point for 3 sec into fire 0.5 point for 1.5 sec, but it should be restored after the five seconds... but if its just disintergrate enchantment 50% then it should be a permanent cut-down), if an items effect reaches 0.1 points the down-going should stop and once the duration reaches 0.1 sec it should break completely. But of course it would be a bad idea if it worked on artifacts... and therefor Bethesda would have to add a box where you can chose wether a certain enchantment should be removable or not...