Dissapointment : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:13 am

Greeting, fellow lore enthusiasts!
As we all know Oblivion has proabably been the biggest letdown for our kind since ever, but what exactly did we all miss the most?

What I missed was that even though when struggling with necromancy the entire Mages Guild questline, there wasn't even anyone who as much as mentioned the name of the Daedric Prince; Meridia.

Tell us what you think was lacking in the Oblivion lore and let's hope that the next one is better lore-wise.

(To all flamers: Oblivion is an AWESOME game, I mean, come on: It's TES dammit! I just think that Oblivion was poor when it came too lore, and I'm sure I'm not the only one)

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:55 am

I agree that OB wasn't so much on depth of lore but... I think this should be in the TES general or OB general forum.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:52 am

I agree that OB wasn't so much on depth of lore but... I think this should be in the TES general or OB general forum.

This is primarily for lore buffs, so I think that I will draw a better crowd in the Lore segment rather then in the segment focusing more on the gameplay itself. Thanks for your concern though :foodndrink:

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:00 am

The Vaccum. From the dreamquest to the main quest, it's very clear that the game took place in its own world, which was certainly not Tamriel.

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:37 pm

The Vaccum. From the dreamquest to the main quest, it's very clear that the game took place in its own world, which was certainly not Tamriel.

What did the dream quest do wrong?

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:25 pm

I was most dissapointed on how Cyrodiil looked... it was so dull and boring.

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:23 pm

What did the dream quest do wrong?

Nothing wrong, but if you make a quest about dreams in ES and don't reference any of the million-and-a-half references to the theme in lore and go with a Twilight Zone plot instead... come on! Honestly, in trying to get interesting quests, the devs acted like modders.

I still can't believe that I stole the Stone of Saint-freaking-Alessia without a single inkling of information, explained, overheard, superfluous or otherwise on what it was. "Good morning Bond. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to recover the Holy Grail and a piece of the True Cross. I forget what all the fuss is about- I think they're sacred or something. Go to it."

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:22 am

I didn't mind TES IV lore-wise. At least they gave us a new PGE that didn't contradict the world. And there's always the glowing portal in Niben Bay when I want something more Morrowind-like.

I think the biggest problem is that TES canon is a mess in general. They change the world in every game and all the time we got ex-employees writing about lore and Bethesda doesn't do anything to clarify what's what.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:23 am

Nothing wrong, but if you make a quest about dreams in ES and don't reference any of the million-and-a-half references to the theme in lore and go with a Twilight Zone plot instead... come on! Honestly, in trying to get interesting quests, the devs acted like modders.

I still can't believe that I stole the Stone of Saint-freaking-Alessia without a single inkling of information, explained, overheard, superfluous or otherwise on what it was. "Good morning Bond. Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to recover the Holy Grail and a piece of the True Cross. I forget what all the fuss is about- I think they're sacred or something. Go to it."

Just playing devil's advocate here, but does this make the quest more or less realistic? If you were your character (a denizen of Tamriel, residing in Cyrodil) do you think you'd need the significance of the stone explained to you? You'd probably already know who St. Alessia is, etc.

The Bond metaphor was a perfect example of this. James Bond probably knows what the Holy Grail and the True Cross are, and therefore, wouldn't need an explanation.

Seriously, though. I get what you're saying. I just had to throw that in for the sake of "point/counter-point". If I had to choose a side, I'd probably pick yours.

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:39 pm

The person who made that quest also had no bloody idea what the stone was. If it was because his in-game Mary Sue would know what the stone was, then maybe devs shouldn't roleplay.

And they didn't act like the Stone was famous or incredibly important. They devoted a whole line to very basic exposition, just like you had never heard of it. The priest said it was sacred and blessed by St. Alessia in the First Era, which is like saying that the Nuclear Football was a presidential heirloom from sometimes in the 50s and telling your Fallout character to go get it.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:40 am

The person who made that quest also had no bloody idea what the stone was. If it was because his in-game Mary Sue would know what the stone was, then maybe devs shouldn't roleplay.

The only Saint item in either TES III or TES IV that had any lore was the Shoes of St. Rilms.

Edit: I mean, it's not like there was any info on the Hair Shirt of St. Aralor, the Cleaver of St. Felms, the Crosier of St. Lothis, or the Robe of St. Roris.

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:02 pm

Edit.

My mistake. Thanks to paw-prints-in-the-mud and Crimson Paladin for the correction.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:01 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Stone_of_St._Alessia

Why is it that every excuse for the underwhelming aspects of Cyrodiil has to do with some fault of the in-game population? Because every one of those excuses reflects directly on the out-of-world developers.

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:17 pm

I assume you mean the Amulet of Kings? I don't recall any other stone associated with Alessia (though feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken).

No, the Stone of St. Alessia, it's an item you have to retrieve in a Fighters Guild quest.

In regards to my own previous post, when I said "Saint artifacts" I mean items called "The [something] of Saint [somebody]".

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:09 am

I assume you mean the Amulet of Kings? I don't recall any other stone associated with Alessia (though feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken).

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Stone_of_St._Alessia

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:55 pm

No, the Stone of St. Alessia, it's an item you have to retrieve in a Fighters Guild quest.

In regards to my own previous post, when I said "Saint artifacts" I mean items called "The [something] of Saint [somebody]".

A loreless fetch quest that should have meaning was an exception in Morrowind, because Morrowind had lore. In Oblivion it was a Exhibit A in the indictment of design.

» Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:56 pm

A loreless fetch quest that should have meaning was an exception in Morrowind, because Morrowind had lore. In Oblivion it was a Exhibit A in the indictment of design.

Four loreless fetch quests. And Oblivion had lore too. A lot of it was carried from Morrowind.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:29 am

And Oblivion had lore too. A lot of it was carried from Morrowind.

But is that a good thing? Some of it can be out of place. Paw-Prints's comment on the Real Barenziah book still being censored by the Tribunal Temple springs to mind.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but does this make the quest more or less realistic? If you were your character (a denizen of Tamriel, residing in Cyrodil) do you think you'd need the significance of the stone explained to you? You'd probably already know who St. Alessia is, etc.

The Bond metaphor was a perfect example of this. James Bond probably knows what the Holy Grail and the True Cross are, and therefore, wouldn't need an explanation.

Perhaps, but you might expect a bit more shock and panic on the part of the priest. If you were a priest charged with looking after a piece of the true cross, you' most likely be crapping yourself, and begging for help, not slightly concerned as if you'd lost your keys. He acted like he'd lost an interesting trinket, not a revered artifact.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:50 am

But is that a good thing? Some of it can be out of place. Paw-Prints's comment on the Real Barenziah book still being censored by the Tribunal Temple springs to mind.

The original book was initially banned by the Septims. The author ended up in Morrowind, along with Barenziah, so the books in Cyrodiil probably were printed in Morrowind.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:05 am

The original book was initially banned by the Septims. The author ended up in Morrowind, along with Barenziah, so the books in Cyrodiil probably were printed in Morrowind.

Obviously since they are there now they are not banned though. Why wouldn't the publisher put back the few words that were omitted and quadruple the sales of the book undoubtedly? Answer: RL appeal to LCD

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:50 am

Obviously since they are there now they are not banned though. Why wouldn't the publisher put back the few words that were omitted and quadruple the sales of the book undoubtedly? Answer: RL appeal to LCD

There's the possibility that the original uncensored manuscript is lost or destroyed. It was, after all, banned and censored. And if it's printed in Morrowind, it's gonna be censored.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:22 pm

The reason real barrenziah was censored isn't because of the temple, its because of the ESRB. People would repoty it eventually and bethesoft would get a big phat M/AO if they shoed it in a video presentation.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:37 am

The Vaccum. From the dreamquest to the main quest, it's very clear that the game took place in its own world, which was certainly not Tamriel.

Yes, the vacuum svcked.

It doesn't just exist between Oblivion and Cyrodiil, but also between each individual storyline. None of them interacted with each other or with Cyrodiil itself. Being so self contained there was nothing 'Cyrodiilic' about them. How is it possible to go to Cyrodiil and I still don't know what Cyrodilic is!

The few that did touch on Lore touched on the big names, Hist, the Palepass, the Elderscrolls, Manimacro, ect. Yet they didn't elaborate or coloured it with an Imperial slant. Or what ever that is.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:37 am

Yes, the vacuum svcked.

It doesn't just exist between Oblivion and Cyrodiil, but also between each individual storyline. None of them interacted with each other or with Cyrodiil itself. Being so self contained there was nothing 'Cyrodiilic' about them. How is it possible to go to Cyrodiil and I still don't know what Cyrodilic is!

The few that did touch on Lore touched on the big names, Hist, the Palepass, the Elderscrolls, Manimacro, ect. Yet they didn't elaborate or coloured it with an Imperial slant. Or what ever that is.

http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/cyrodiil.shtml Oblivion could not change that, nor could it live up to the imagery.

» Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:57 am

I miss all the topics people had in morrowind. Someone in particular, latest rumours, little secret, background, my trade and they told a lot of stuff you know about things