Well, the god's blood has been spilling in Red Mountain for quite a long time. Some more of it may have got kicked up from the eruption.

Didn't we kill Almalexia in one game, and see Sotha Silly there dead too? If their blood or body parts are much like Lorkhan's, you could make a fortune off of their corpses. Hollow out Sotha and wear him like a suit. Charge ten dollars a hit to "have your way" with Almalexia. I kinda think people would want to get some god action, and just not tell their friends that she was dead at the time.

I'm not really a Lore expert, but I imagine one possibility for escape for much of the population of Vvardenfell - Divine Intervention to Solstheim. Now, I know what you are thinking - Solstheim is too far for a teleportation spell. Well, you can "Mark" in Solstheim in MW, and recall to Solstheim. Also, if you are in Solstheim, and use Almsivi Intervention, it takes you to Gnisis Tribunal Temple. Also, can't you Mark in Mournhold?

So, it seems like it would be logical that if all of the Temple Priests throughout Vvardenfell destroyed whatever arcane anchor is used to act as the end point for Divine Intervention, so that there were no anchors left on the Island itself, anyone using Divine Intervention would end up at the Shrine in Solstheim. From there, they might have been able to take ships to the mainland.

Hard to say, but it at least leaves open a possibility for someone like Divayth Fyr or any other magic user to potentially get out of Vvardenfell. Or, like I said about Marking in Solstheim, some of those guys might have had Marks off the island.

Is there any indication (it's been awhile since I read the Infernal City), that anyone was expecting the Ministry of Truth to fall? I remember on the one character I finished the Tribunal Questline on, that most dunmer would not believe that the Tribunal were dead (or, in the case of Vivec, who I decided not to kill, since he would soon die anyhow now that the Heart was destroyed, severely weakened and losing his power), BUT, I bet the Dissident Priests, and the Ashlanders, and quite possibly the Telvanni (who are rather Secular and never went in for the Temple anyhow), would believe [although it's not clear, in Lore, that I know of, if the Nerevarine ever tried to tell anyone the whole truth about the Trib. - what I did on my character, of course, is not Lore), and would then surmise that the Ministry of Truth would eventually fall.

I really think it would be quite plausible that while most residents of Vvardenfell would have buried their head in the sands, and so be caught unawares by the Catastrophe, that at least some of them would have forseen it (even if they didn't know the exact day and time).

Going to have to say...no, Moloiriel. First off, it's not logical some temple priests would mark themselves to Solstheim, or learn spells from the imperial cult. Second, despite what you see in game, there really are not that many talented mages. Only the Mages Guild and Telvanni would have the best scholars and mages around. The temple is more about healing, charity, spread of temple doctrine, and the suppression of heretical material, rather than casting gtfo spells. Also, I highly doubt, outside the imperial cult, a few mages, and adventurers, will have DI. Frankly, your explanation sounds like a desperate attempt to justify how all the cool kids survived. Do not confuse game mechanics with lore, it's too unreliable, and can lead to many f'd up situations when trying to explain lore.

In addition, no one expected the MoT to fall, especially when there was a machine specifically designed to make sure it didn't fall, which it did till it blew up. They knew it was going to fall, so they prevented it, which was working just fine. The sudden destruction of the machine was a complete sudden surprise, caused by two mages, one of whom allowed his envy to damn an entire race. The only way people could have been prepared is if they happened to be away from Morrowind during the incident, which is completely by chance, and if there one thing about the dunmer, they're way too stubborn.

The purpose of it falling was to wipe Vvardenfel clean, and cause a pseudo-Apocalypse to the dunmer people of Morrowind, as foretold by Vivec. It was made in lesson for the dunmer to remember Love. When the machine blew up, it was because Love was completely forgotten, and now the dunmer must endure a painful and sobering lesson to relearn love. However, all hope is not lost, for the ancient enemy of the dunmer is now lending a hand in the harsh cold island of Solstheim. Expect a reemergence of the once proud race who dared to defy the altmer and their gods, defeated the dwemer, and endured the blight of Dagoth Ur and the Sixth House in the coming century.

bolded and underlined area for emphasis.

[quote name='Hellmouth' date='20 May 2010 - 06:02 PM' timestamp='1274392927' post='15963732']
Going to have to say...no, Moloiriel. First off, it's not logical some temple priests would mark themselves to Solstheim, or learn spells from the imperial cult. . .[/quote]

I never really said anything about the Temple Priests marking themselves to Solstheim? I was thinking more about Tevlanni/Mages Guild, maybe some non-Dunmer wealthy people who wanted an emergency escape route. Not the masses, not the Temple devout, who I'm sure would never think that Vivec's power would fail them. But, the Dissident Priests, on the other hand, were, let's face it, not your typical temple faithful.

[/quote] Second, despite what you see in game, there really are not that many talented mages. Only the Mages Guild and Telvanni would have the best scholars and mages around.[/quote]

Agreed. But, how many mages does it take to make some DI or Recall Amulets? Even assuming that it's more difficult and expensive to enchant than is portrayed by the game mechanics (I do agree that the game mechanics here would suggest there could be tens of thousands of such amulets, because, by game mechanics, every mage could enchant thousands of such amulets, which doesn't really seem like it would be good fiction), I would still expect that there could be, overall, maybe 100 or 200 such amulets/rings/gloves floating around among the wealthy and powerful (figure a dozen powerful enchanters on the island, if they each only made 10, that would be over 100). I mean, anywhere there is an opportunity to make money, someone will take it. If there were people who could have been worried about the possibility of calamity, then someone would certainlyl capitalize on that to make some money selling teleportation charms.

[Quote]The temple is more about healing, charity, spread of temple doctrine, and the suppression of heretical material, rather than casting gtfo spells. Also, I highly doubt, outside the imperial cult, a few mages, and adventurers, will have DI. Frankly, your explanation sounds like a desperate attempt to justify how all the cool kids survived.[/quote]

See, you think I care about whether the 'cool kids survived.' Frankly, I don't. I care about what makes *sense* (to the extent you can apply 'sense' to a magical fantasy setting, but we presume that, fundamentally, sentient beings behave somewhat intelligently, and somewhat consistently with how people in the real world behave, with regards to the range of human motivations - greed, love, hatred, empathy, altruism, ego, curiousity, fear, etc)

[quote]Do not confuse game mechanics with lore, it's too unreliable, and can lead to many f'd up situations when trying to explain lore.[/quote]

Yes, I acknowledge that. Still, however, the game must inform our understanding of the world to some extent. I don't, for example, think that it's probably consistent with Lore that mages can create potions of virtually unlimited strength, even though that's possible in the game. But, I do presume that if I can teleport from Vvardenfell to Solstheim, then it's at least *possible* that other characters could in an emergecy.

[quote]In addition, [u]no one expected the MoT to fall, especially when there was a machine specifically designed to make sure it didn't fall, which it did till it blew up.[/u] They knew it was going to fall, so they prevented it, which was working just fine. [/quote]

It sounds to me like you contradicted yourself there. If I was a powerful mage, working on the project to keep the moon from falling, I'd sure the heck have a "Plan B". Machines always have the possibility of failure and/or sabotage. As I mentioned before, were the Telvanni not secular 'academic' sort of people? Granted, Therana was as senile as it gets, but it seems entirely consistent to me that most reasonably intelligent people (Telvanni, Mages Guild, educated nobility, even Imperial Cult priests), if they were aware of the need for a machine to hold the MoT up, would have started making some contingency plans. Was the machine kept top-secret so that almost no one knew about it?

[quote]The sudden destruction of the machine was a complete sudden surprise, caused by two mages, one of whom allowed his envy to damn an entire race. The only way people could have been prepared is if they happened to be away from Morrowind during the incident, which is completely by chance, and if there one thing about the dunmer, they're way too stubborn. [/quote]

Again, if anyone else knew about this machine, and the risk of the Moon falling, then I disagree. If it was kept very secret, then I concede that, without knowledge of the risk, people would likely not make preparations. In my previous post, I also acknowledged that the very faithful would have trusted the Tribunal to protect them. Also, most people, even if they knew about the risk, would be too poor to do anything about it.

[quote] The purpose of it falling was to wipe Vvardenfel clean, and cause a pseudo-Apocalypse to the dunmer people of Morrowind, as foretold by Vivec. It was made in lesson for the dunmer to remember Love. When the machine blew up, it was because Love was completely forgotten, and now the dunmer must endure a painful and sobering lesson to relearn love. However, all hope is not lost, for the ancient enemy of the dunmer is now lending a hand in the harsh cold island of Solstheim. Expect a reemergence of the once proud race who dared to defy the altmer and their gods, defeated the dwemer, and endured the blight of Dagoth Ur and the Sixth House in the coming century. [/quote]

Yes, we all know it caused a pseudo-Apocalypse, and reshaped both the geography of Vardenfell, and the ethnic and political dynamics of the region. All I'm saying is, it seems like there is possibility for the authors/loremasters at Bethesda to plausibly save any of the powerful characters mentioned by the OP. Also, like I mentioned before, I like a *little* bit of plausibility to sustain my "willing suspensioin of disbelief", and it seems like, to me, if there was enough knowledge about the risk of the Moon falling that people tried to create a magical device to stop it, then it's beyond belief that no-one involved in the project would prepare a contingency plan.

Hindsight is always better than foresight.

You insert way too much conjecture and "if - than" situations, which frankly, most likely didn't happen at all, or we received to little knowledge to suggest that there were many survivors of the Red Year. You may have done all those things, but no one really did. You may have had a few people leave before and head to Cyrodiil or something, which is likely, but once it occurred, it was too late. A few of the Telvanni may knew about it, but their members for the most part are isolated and rarely look out their own windows. Aryon was largely a special case, but his home was way too close to Red Mountain for me to assume he was spared. If his tower didn't collapse from the initial shock of the MoT, Red Mountain would have liquefied his home, and the amount of ash would be choking most people.

All we are given are this: The MoT was expected to fall. A group created a machine, known as the ingenium, that funneled souls to Clavicus Vile in order to keep a vent open to his realm. Sul and Vuhon got into a fight, the ingenium blew up, Soul and Vuhon were cast into Vile's realm, and the moon fell, and caused tidal waves to form. Red Mountain soon erupted, and ash covered the island. There was no plan B, for once the ingenium fails, MoT falls, and no one was going to make another one just in case; too many people needed to be sacrificed in order to power it. It's in the book, give it a reread. Vuhon had to make another one in Vile's realm, as promised to Umbra, and go out to search for his sword and no longer be attached to Vile's realm.

Either way, as Lady Nerevar pointed out, this is really all moot. If anyone did survive, they're going to be dead by the time TES:V comes out. The dunmer may live long, but not 200 years long when they have to work all day in harsh conditions. The survivors will most likely be in second and third generation by the time we see them again.

So, the Ministry of Truth fell through this vent, until the ingenium collapsed?

Or, did the hole being cloged with souls stop the MoT from continuing on its trajectory?

Wouldn't the MoT be comparable to a large atomic explosion?
If so, I'd imagine Yagrum & the Fyr clan would be safe in the Corprusarium bowels. They wouldn't have to waste time running/boating/panicking/teleporting anywhere.

Eh, I tried quoting what Sul said, but I think I did a poor job at it. I don't have the book on hand at the moment, but when I get back to my room I'll quote his explanation.

Regardless, I'll try to sum it up as best as I can, for now.

The purpose of the ingenium was to open a vent to Oblivion, using souls, in order to borrow a Prince's power to keep Vivec's magic intact. In this case, the ever so eager Clavicus Vile jumped at the proposition, for Sul hints that Vuhon may have struck a deal with Vile. Because Clavicus has a raging fetish for collecting souls, I believe a deal was struck that he'd lend some of his power through the vent the ingenium created, in exchange for souls, lots of souls.

As for the reason it collapsed,


Possibly. But the lack of food may become an issue if magma ends up covering their island. And I don't think corprus meat is very healthy. But I have good reason to believe outside of the initial eruption, the magma flow should only have gone directly north and south. Most of the east and west should be free of magma flow, but the ash is another issue. If the state of Vivec is any indication, several feet of ash covered the island, and still covers the island ~30 years after the eruption. Plant-life is also a no no if the state of Vivec is any indication. Plus, I have a feeling Red Mountain's ash isn't exactly the best thing on Tamriel. There's also the issue the sea could still be boiling, but that question wasn't really answered in the book; Treb and Sul only hoped it wasn't still boiling.

The evidence of large numbers of Dunmeri survivors comes from the fact that they have practically taken over Cheydinhall and Solsthiem.

I'd think they'd be more of the mainlanders than the Vvardenfel kind

Yeah I'm not buying the whole idea that a lot of people survived from Vvardenfel. I'd like to believe some Telvanni could have potentially survived but by and large those people were effed a capital eff.

I think it's a bit uncanny - and cool - how Vvardenfell's gone from http://www.galbadiax.com/morrowind/vvardenfell-map.jpg to basically http://www.uesp.net/morrow/preview/map.jpg.

I will concede that there were a few survivors, as Sul's dead wife did tell him that a dunmer did grab the Umbra sword in Vivec when it was a smoldering pile of ash and a giant crater.

Okay, here's what Sul said how the ingenium worked


And then he goes to explain Umbra here


Then he goes to say that Vile changed the barriers of his realm to absolutely prevent Umbra from leaving, and that if Vile got Umbra's sword, Umbra would be royally screwed. So, Umbra, with the power of a prince, hid himself on a fringe of Vile's realm. He used Vuhon to create a second ingenium to get back to Tamriel, using a piece of Vile's realm too it seemed. The city part isn't clear, as Sul never really saw the city, for Vuhon was pretty pissed at Sul, but it's very implied and probably was confirmed later in the story. I sorta forgot the end bit.

So I guess my early explanation was pretty correct.

i hope bethesda dont use the story from the book (unless they already have said they will). its all rather depressing with all this death and destruction of a place i really loved.

and surely the mighty divayth fyr isnt dead?

the book is canon, meaning its going to influence future games.

thanks for clearing that up.


but you cant just turn morrowind into a smouldering wasteland

well, they did.

It has been mentioned in books about the invasion of Akavir (cant give any more hint than that unfortuantely, Disaster of Ilonith perhaps?) that it is possible to conjure food with conjuration magic. If Divyath Fyr survived in the corprusarium then I see it as possible and very likely that he is still alive.
By the way, is it possible that the lava could have run through the earth and into the corprusarium? Just wondering...

True, I forgot about the conjure food part. And yeah, I have a feeling there is still a chance that lava could get into his home if the mushroom part is consumed. And they have to worry about being cooked alive, because magma is FREAKING HOT!

"You dont say..."

well, its nothing a fire shield spell won't fix...

Even a powerful wizard like him has his own physical limits, especially at +4000 years old.