speech "fencing", does that mean you can't do something without a speech check? or does that mean different paths based on speech choices?

Also, yes the robots put up a fairly good fight (especially if you're trying to screw around with your "robot hacking" abilities) It was wierd actually dying again, and having to save and stuff!

Robot settlement protectrons!! YES

this DLC is so exciting for those that are into the world and expanded gameplay(settlements/companions/etc) of Fallout4

betting, eh? in game or like with your roommates?

man you are excited about this, I allready did a little of this with my robot hacker skills in one of the Automotron questilines. The robot I picked lost!

New flash, fan reception is not as important as you make it out to be, fans are 100% no different then any other consumer out there, Beth doesn't need to care about fan reception, especially not fans of the old games. Beth only needs to focus on making games that appeals to consumers, just like any other, if someone likes there product enough to become a fan, well that's a nice cherry on top, but there main focus should never be to do thing "the way fans want them to"

Yeah and that's exactly what they've done they're appealing to the lowest common denominator by streamlining and dumbing down everything. Woo fkin hoo.

I guess we are because Fallout 4 may be a fun game but it's definitely not a good RPG. I'm still baffled that you claim to have played since Daggerfall like myself and yet still fail to see how shallow Fallout 4 is as an RPG like most have.

Whenever I hear people talking about how New Vegas is the "True Fallout Game" I wonder if there was some sort of mixup where I downloaded a Bethesda game from Steam and they got Wasteland 2 or something.

Because really New Vegas is a inspiring story about how the Bethesda gameplay doesn't need Bethesda the developer present at every level to replicate it, and the uniqueness that a different developer brings enhances the uniqueness that is already present in each game compared to one another.

With all the people railing on about how Obsidian is superior though it makes me think that we aren't going to see another game like that since people will just use it as ammunition to hate on Bethesda. That makes me sad.

That isn't a problem at all. Ignoring the MQ is a common thing for Bethesda's RPGs. Be it Morrowind, Skyrim, or Fallout 4...

"Most" is a bad word to use since most people I've seen enjoys Fallout 4 as the RPG it actually is while everybody else is basically like you, and mistaking what it is (in my eyes). So... Ye'h.

I've seen this argument too many times that it isn't funny anymore. No offense.

Appealing to consumers has nothing to do with streamlining, consumer, being a generic term incorporates people of all ranges, there are other reasons for Beth for trimming of the fat.

Yes they should. And if they aren't they should drink Pepsi, or RC, or Shasta and get over it. You aren't about to reverse your banana course for them, it's your soda.

I am a huge nv fan and I hated Zeta as much as OP anchorage. Any dlc that locks me into a linear multi hour trek drives me nuts on multiple playthroughs. Dead money was great other than the mandatory slot machine. You ever do a 1 luck playthrough of dead money? took hours of pulling the lever.

Bethesda would be stupid to not let Obsidian make another Fallout game. That way both new and old players will be satisfied. Though from what I've seen outside of these forums, Fallout 4 actually failed to deliver with many Fallout 3 fans as well which surprised me.

Like I said, one of Fallout 4's biggest criticisms has been it's shallow, watered down RPG elements. That's a fact, not an opinion.

You can try and say it isn't watered down all you want to, but the evidence proves otherwise.

Ignoring the MQ in a game isn't a problem. OK, whatever, I give up.

I also believe FNV is better of a RPG game than FO4..

but FO4 improved upon so many other things, I can forgive it having less of RPG element.



FNV was possible because FO3 provided foundation to build FNV as greater RPG game than FO3.


FO5 will be such a great game now that we have FO4 providing foundation for it to become greatest RPG game of all time.

Morrowind: Nameless prisoner

Skyrim: Nameless prisoner

F3:Baby

F4:Named 30 year old with life story, soldier/lawyer, accent, spouse, child, house, robot butler.


See what I'm getting at? As for dumbing down for the lowest common denominator that's hardly a conspiracy. The more accessible your product the more you sell and most people don't like thinking harder than they have to. Look at how the complexity of beth games go down since morrowind.

FNV is the better RPG while Fallout 4 is the better game mechanically.

I wouldn't get your hopes up for Fallout 5 though tbh if Fallout 4 is anything to go by, especially if Bethesda in it's current state is the one that makes it. Bethesda needs to either have someone else do the story or it needs to get far better writers than it currently has.

Lol look at this guy purposely leaving out oblivion to make his point look better. Oh, wait...

I enjoy Fallout 4. It failed to deliver in some areas and exceeded in other areas. Whether it's a step down from Fallout 3 or New Vegas is a different discussion I believe. I do think that as a fanbase, we would do better to actually recognize the pitfalls and shortcomings of Fallout 4 as well as it's strengths to better give Bethesda input on what the community here thinks about the game and what we would expect from a future Fallout release. The lack of RPG elements and the focus on action is a disappointment for me as a long time Fallout fan starting with the first game in the series. Neither Fallout 3 nor New Vegas were as action-based, and both had a stronger focus on the RP elements of the game than Fallout 4.

As for the DLC, I'm with John Henry Eden -- it's more than I expected, and I'm enjoying it very much.

It has little to do with rights. They are Bethesda's, we know that. But if Bethesda had no interest in producing games that were true to the Fallout formula it would have been better for everyone if they hadn't bought the rights. They clearly don't need or want the old Fallout fans, so they didn't need the rights to please them. The people they are trying to appeal to with FO4 didn't even like what Fallout was about. The Fallout title wasn't necessary for them either. They could just as easily have started their own new post apocalyptic IP and the new fans would have liked it just as much. Instead they chose to take a dearly beloved franchise, take it away from the old fans by preventing a Fallout-loving developer like inXile or Obsidian to acquire the rights, and turn it into something completely different to please a bunch of people who didn't even like Fallout.

If they combined Fallout 4's gameplay with FNV's writing, dialogue and RPG elements they would have a recipe for a fantastic Fallout game.

lol Morrowind was hardly a complex RPG. It remains my favorite game of all time -- I still play it. I have the same complaints now that I had then -- it's a mindless hiking simulator, especially Daggerfall and Arena. As opposed to Wizardry 8 or Gothic, it's pretty lacking in the RP department, many of the characters are forgettable, and the writing is plain and simply gets the job done. I love Morrowind, but I'm not going to let it cloud my criticism of the game. It's something I want improved. Oblivion and Skyrim have come a long way to improve the quests in the series, but it's not enough.

That whole "dumbing down" argument just sabotages the point you're trying to make. I don't like stuff like the voiced protagonist or the defined backstory, but framing it as if I am ever so smart and its all the filthy inferiors around me who are the reason why Bethesda did things the way they did...That just makes the point come across as that Butthurt Dweller meme, a cartoon character instead of someone with a dislike of certain elements and a wish for them to be changed later on.

Morrowind was complex in other areas though like spells and enchanting which has indeed been watered down more and more with every Elderscrolls game unfortunately. I'd also argue that Morrowind has the best world building out of all the Elder Scrolls games.

Actually, there's a pattern in Bethesda's games and I think we're going to have the greatest RPG game of all time from Bethesda soon enough. That pattern basically being, every game they try a new major thing with one of the major elements in the game and then perfect it two games later (discounting Fallout 3 as Fallout 3 was more of Bethesda using Oblivion stuffs to make a Fallout game and see if it sells).

For example... Morrowind was their first 3D open world and really, the first true open world to explore (Daggerfall's open world is big but not really fun to explore and such). Bethesda "perfected" the Open World aspect in Skyrim (two games later). In Oblivion, they really tried out a whole new combat system... Combat is now "perfected" in Fallout 4 (two games later). In Skyrim, they tried out a whole new approach with the RPG elements (Attributes, skills, perks, etc)... And now in Fallout 4, they are trying out a whole new dialogue type of system...

That's what it comes down to in the end, same for me. I was initially disappointed because I was expecting a very different game, but I've learned to enjoy it for what it is: great exploration, great world, good combat.

I just don't get the people trying to make FO4 what it isn't, which is a deep RPG experience, or a game with meaningful choices, strong story/writing etc. etc. It just doesn't tick those boxes, end of story.

It's obvious Bethesda shifted it's focus towards the action side of things, that's what they wanted that's what they did, some people were pleased by that others, including myself were disappointed.

I never really thought of it that way, but you're right that Bethesda does try new things every game and then works to improve them based on player feedback.

The Oblivion Level Scaling is a huge example of that. I really didn't like it back in the day, but im able to tolerate it now since its been heavily improved on in later games. Im sure stuff like the voiced protagonist will work the same way when im playing Fallout 4 10 years from now.