[RELz] DLL - Dynamic Leveled Lists : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:42 am

Debug EXE is up, if you want to run it and help out. 8)

WORKS !! :toughninja:

:icecream:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:40 am

Sorry, I broke something again. >_> Didn't turn on Conscribe so I took screenies instead.

1. Saw the DLLtime command so I tested it out while it was still in the backup stage, but it came out http://i56.tinypic.com/15hnd6e.jpg
2. Next I tried DLLProcessBackupImmediately set to 1, the console threw up some http://i56.tinypic.com/2cxfhb8.jpg. After a while http://i51.tinypic.com/208whl5.jpg popped up.
3. Different http://i53.tinypic.com/oigdci.jpg in the console at the end

My leveled lists are the same as when I was using the last version, shouldn't have any problems processing. Not certain whether anything is broken so I'll probably reload a previous save and let it run slowly as normal through the backup/update process. Oh and I like the new readme. ^_^

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:12 am

WORKS !! :toughninja:

:icecream:

Which works? The exe in 2.02? Or the debug exe? If one works.. the other should work, but I'm just wondering cuz something failed on you.. XD

Sorry, I broke something again. >_> Didn't turn on Conscribe so I took screenies instead.

1. Saw the DLLtime command so I tested it out while it was still in the backup stage, but it came out http://i56.tinypic.com/15hnd6e.jpg
2. Next I tried DLLProcessBackupImmediately set to 1, the console threw up some http://i56.tinypic.com/2cxfhb8.jpg. After a while http://i51.tinypic.com/208whl5.jpg popped up.
3. Different http://i53.tinypic.com/oigdci.jpg in the console at the end

My leveled lists are the same as when I was using the last version, shouldn't have any problems processing. Not certain whether anything is broken so I'll probably reload a previous save and let it run slowly as normal through the backup/update process. Oh and I like the new readme. ^_^

Hrm, my best guess is you didn't run the new exe and do a clean install... Which is my bad. I should have included that as a step for upgrading. ^~^
You're probably running half old scripts and such. 8\

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:30 pm

Which works? >> The exe in 2.02? << Or the debug exe? If one works.. the other should work, but I'm just wondering cuz something failed on you.. XD

The exe in 2.02

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:29 pm

Hrm, my best guess is you didn't run the new exe and do a clean install... Which is my bad. I should have included that as a step for upgrading. ^~^
You're probably running half old scripts and such. 8\

I see, I only deleted the file in Pluggy's directory and reran the .exe, didn't do a clean save. Tried it again with a clean save and the backup/update was done pretty quick. ^_^ The DLLtime command is still the same though. Will take some time to run through some dungeons to see the spawn levels, hope everything's fine now.

Edit: Hrm well, DLLcondexport gave an empty file:

----------------------------TotalEntries=0
=--------------------------------------------------------------=NEXT LEVELED LIST:

Next leveled list for a few thousand lines, that's it.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:03 am

Okay i have a question. I deactivated the previous version, started the game and waited 4 days inside the IC Shack after which i saved the game. Then i removed all files related to the previous version like both ini files, the exe files...all of them. After that i installed version 2.02 and then i ran DLLImportNewFormIDs.exe. After that i edited the Advanced User Settings part of the ini file in the Data folder to this:

Spoiler

;------------------------------- Advanced User Settings ------------------------------------------------------;
;------ Use the accompanying excel file to help visualize what these settings do ---------------------------- ;

;-------------------------------- Spawn Rate Settings --------------------------------------------------------;

;; These settings determine how much LOWER in level a creature has to be to:
set DLLlowTierReducLine to 2 ;(1) ;; Start spawning less frequently
set DLLlowTierCutLine to 6 ;(15) ;; Stop spawning altogether

;; These settings determine how much HIGHER in level a creature has to be to:
set DLLHighTierReducLine to 1 ;(1) ;; Start spawning less frequently
set DLLHighTierCutLine to 6 ;(6) ;; Stop spawning altogether

;; These settings affect epic tier
set DLLEpicTierDropPercent to 4 ;(2) ;; This setting guarantees an epic creature will spawn X% of the time
set DLLEpicTierSoftCutLine to 8 ;(8) ;; These epic creatures will spawn more frequently than those past the soft cut
set DLLEpicTierCutLine to 15 ;(15) ;; These creatures will only spawn a tiny fraction of the time

set DLLForceLevel to 1 ;(1) ;; Forces levels to be evaluated as actual creature level, not the modder-defined LList entry level given to it

In other words mostly as you showed it in the html readme. The spreadsheet showed that with these settings my level 14 character would no longer meet creatures/NPC's from level 1 to 7, only level 8 and up to i think level 35 for Epic. But so far after going to a few ruins i saw that there where still quit a few creatures of level 2 to 6? Should this be hapening, is there something wrong with the settings. Or could it be that due to the combination of having installed the new version and SPAWN maybe not having reset that cell yet that this is happening?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:45 am

Also, just curious (I haven't installed this yet) - does the esp get a relev/delev tag in the bashed patch? Is one needed?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:50 am

In other words mostly as you showed it in the html readme. The spreadsheet showed that with these settings my level 14 character would no longer meet creatures/NPC's from level 1 to 7, only level 8 and up to i think level 35 for Epic. But so far after going to a few ruins i saw that there where still quit a few creatures of level 2 to 6? Should this be hapening, is there something wrong with the settings. Or could it be that due to the combination of having installed the new version and SPAWN maybe not having reset that cell yet that this is happening?

Ah, I can answer this a little.

Read my posts regarding the same issue, the gist is that in-game the backup and update process hasn't complete. It takes hours if going the slow way, the new version has a DLLProcessBackupImmediately setting which completes both very quickly but I'm having problem with it at the moment. The theory is once backup/update is done, the leveled lists will work and spawn accordingly to what you've set. You can set DLLPrintUpdateStatus to 1 to view which stage it's at in the console. At the moment I'll have to go the slow way, then wait 4 days for the respawns before I can even test whether the levels work correctly. -_- Hope Lev can get back soon about the DLLProcessBackupImmediately thingy.

Also, just curious (I haven't installed this yet) - does the esp get a relev/delev tag in the bashed patch? Is one needed?

Nope no tags required.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:30 am

Ah, I can answer this a little.

Read my posts regarding the same issue, the gist is that in-game the backup and update process hasn't complete. It takes hours if going the slow way, the new version has a DLLProcessBackupImmediately setting which completes both very quickly but I'm having problem with it at the moment. The theory is once backup/update is done, the leveled lists will work and spawn accordingly to what you've set. You can set DLLPrintUpdateStatus to 1 to view which stage it's at in the console. At the moment I'll have to go the slow way, then wait 4 days for the respawns before I can even test whether the levels work correctly. -_- Hope Lev can get back soon about the DLLProcessBackupImmediately thingy.

I see, thanks omeletted.

EDIT: Alrighty then, the DLLProcessBackupImmediately was fast. Perhaps at max 5 seconds i got a prompt that mentioned the backup was done and that from now on it would backup in the background when i level up. Now i am going to play to see what happens.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:20 am

I copied the DLLImportNewFormIDs.exe inside oblivion/data. I doubled clicked to it and... crash.
Version 2.02
O.S. windows XP

What i should do ? :unsure:

The exe in 2.02

So exe v2.02 crashed for you and then started working?

I see, I only deleted the file in Pluggy's directory and reran the .exe, didn't do a clean save. Tried it again with a clean save and the backup/update was done pretty quick. ^_^ The DLLtime command is still the same though. Will take some time to run through some dungeons to see the spawn levels, hope everything's fine now.

Edit: Hrm well, DLLcondexport gave an empty file:

Next leveled list for a few thousand lines, that's it.

Running some of my own tests now. I'll see what I can find out. Sorry for all the bugs. 8\ I'm nearing finals week so I can't do as much testing as I normally would. Come next week wednesday, though, and I'll be a freeee man! 8D

EDIT:
Getting the same problem as you.. *puts on detective hat*

EDIT: Got it, will be releasing patch soon, once I do some more checking around and update the exe with a debug log for the XP crashers. 8)

I see, thanks omeletted.

EDIT: Alrighty then, the DLLProcessBackupImmediately was fast. Perhaps at max 5 seconds i got a prompt that mentioned the backup was done and that from now on it would backup in the background when i level up. Now i am going to play to see what happens.

Omeletted seems to be my DLL sidekick! XD

If omletted's problem is truely a problem, then you won't have correct spawns until I release a patch. I'm doing tests, I'll get back to you shortly. 8)

BTW, you only have to do the 4-7 day wait if you really want all your already-visited cells to reflect DLL -immediately-. DLL will still work on new cells without waiting and resetting the cells.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:33 am

So exe v2.02 crashed for you and then started working?

Nope sorry, i explained bad (and too shortly XD)

First i've downloaded "DLL v202" from main files (DLL nexus link). Run the exe = crash.

So:

I've downloaded "DLL debug EXE" from "miscellaneous from DLL nexus link. Run the exe = work.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:23 am

Omeletted seems to be my DLL sidekick! XD

If omletted's problem is truely a problem, then you won't have correct spawns until I release a patch. I'm doing tests, I'll get back to you shortly. 8)

BTW, you only have to do the 4-7 day wait if you really want all your already-visited cells to reflect DLL -immediately-. DLL will still work on new cells without waiting and resetting the cells.

LoL yeah always handy to have a sidekick.

As for not having the correct spawns...that might be the reason then why i got 2 ghosts and a zombie of level 4 in the Ayleid ruin where you do the "Infiltration or Apprehension" quest for the Mages Guild eventhough i used DLLProcessBackupImmediately. Alright i will wait for the patch then.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:24 pm

Very nice

I like this alot

However, will there be support for item leveled lists for the future?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:50 pm

DLL patch 2.03 up and running! Note some of the setting changes.

Also, the exe has a built in debugger, which spits out a debug file.
Upload that as a spoiler if you have issues.

Very nice

I like this alot

However, will there be support for item leveled lists for the future?

I plan to. I've a lot on my plate in many different areas, so it'll come when it comes. 8)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:14 am

DLL patch 2.03 up and running! Note some of the setting changes.

Can't ~~break~~ test it yet, will do so later. Suggestions for the readme:

1. Mention clean saving when doing an upgrade in the installation instructions
2. Mention exactly where to find DLLImportNewFormIDsDebugLog, some people might not know to check the data directory
3. Remove references to DLLLimitLListProcessMax , DLLSlowUpdatingEvenMore and DLLSlowBackupEvenMore in the troubleshooting section

Edit: DLLPrintUpdateStatus to 1 is becoming a habit.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:31 pm

Break DLL anytime. I need the rough treatment. 8) Otherwise I'll be happily singing carols and doing HW and a stream of bad endorsemants will show up and ruin my day.

Thanks! I think I slowly changed most of those issues in the online version. 8)

Edit: DLLPrintUpdateStatus to 1 is becoming a habit.

Damn right it is! Who wouldn't want it on!?! *hangs head in shame*

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:33 am

One thing I note while installing this is that Wrye Bash does not install exe files, or even list them!

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:14 am

One thing I note while installing this is that Wrye Bash does not install exe files, or even list them!

Using BAIN, I'm guessing?

Is there something special I have to do on my end to have it BAIN install okay for you? Or are you just saying it is inherent in BAIN?

I've never used BAIN, and of course I'm wishing I had.. but i was just too far into my setup when I learned about it and it's too hand-tweaked and fragile to do a full reinstall using BAIN.. 8\

BTW, your forum signature is amazing, and I plan on stealing it when you switch

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:09 am

The .exe thing is inherent in BAIN, I just installed DLL manually since it's only 1 folder + 3 files. Anyway, status report. This will be long. o.o

1. DLLtime is working, the estimate seems pretty close to the mark too.

2. Enabled Conscribe this time so posting the log first:

Spoiler

DLL: Starting Main Background Script
DLL: Importing FormID Block Exceptions: modIndex 0 of 0, LListIndex 0 of 0
DLL: Importing FormID Ignore Exceptions: modIndex 0 of 0, LListIndex 0 of 0
DLL: Importing keyword Block Exceptions: modIndex 0 of 0
DLL: Importing keyword Ignore Exceptions: modIndex 0 of 0
DLL: Importing Faction Ignore Exceptions: modIndex 1 of 1, LListIndex 0 of 1
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 10 of 43, LListIndex 680 of 759
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 14 of 43, LListIndex 471 of 1164
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 15 of 43, LListIndex 128 of 683
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 17 of 43, LListIndex 307 of 590
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 26 of 43, LListIndex 589 of 1151
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 27 of 43, LListIndex 213 of 218
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 28 of 43, LListIndex 663 of 682
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 30 of 43, LListIndex 27 of 294
DLL: Backup Process at: ModIndex 44 of 43, LListIndex 1 of 1
DLL: Exception Processing at: 1457 of 4209
DLL: Exception Processing at: 3462 of 4209
DLL: Exception Processing at: 4209 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 179 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 466 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 752 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 1039 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 1325 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 1611 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 1898 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 2184 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 2471 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 2757 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 3044 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 3330 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 3616 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 3903 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 4189 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 4209 of 4209
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script
DLL: End update Script

Everything seems to have ran fine. Note the "Backup Process at: ModIndex 44 of 43, LListIndex 1 of 1" which is odd. Also the number of records 4209 isn't it suppose to be tally with the number stated in DynamicLL.ini, which is "totalLLists=8168"? Thought I vaguely remember them being the same in the previous version. And "End update Script" kept appearing for the rest of the game.

3. Saving takes significantly longer now, was about 5 sec normally but it's now around 20 sec. It's pretty jarring as I've auto streamsaves every few minutes. No clue how that's related to DLL, disabling it return things to normal.

4. DLLcondexport's list is actually populated now and no -1 spawn levels. Yay.

5. Rested 4 days before going spelunking in a few caves. First one was... http://i56.tinypic.com/fjosxi.jpg. There were easily 20 of them, all boss class around level 60'ish. Seems like each boss spawned multiple times as well. Things got painful, but not as much as it was for http://i52.tinypic.com/yz7yv.jpg. :evil:

6. Second cave was pretty tame, normal creatures around my level as well. But there were a few level 12, which aren't suppose to spawn according to my settings?

7. Third cave was the same as the first one, another http://i54.tinypic.com/fjevcx.jpg.

Looks like there're still some quirks.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:32 am

1. Where can I get this Conscribe, i need it bad-lay

---------------------------------

2. the weird mod index postings is because of the way the script returns and restarts, I could've added extra -if- statements to make ALL the output entries make 100% sense, but I didn't care enough. The output is just supposed to give a general idea of where things are at. It should be running just fine despite the 'illogical' entry on the edge conditions.

----------------------------------

3. The reason you have 4209 updating when you have 8000 in the .ini is because the EXE can't tell if a LList is unique or overwriting a LList from a mod earlier in the load order. So.. it just puts everything on.. all 8168. Once DLL starts backing everything up.. it's able to see if the LList is unique. If it's not, it's thrown out so it doesn't process the same LList twice and waste your time. So, you end up with 4209 unique LLists.

----------------------------------

4. Saving takes longer because you've got a 6-7MB OBSE backup array of 4000 leveled lists. It saves that to the OBSE portion of your save every time.. 8\
If you look at your save folder, you'll notice each save has three files. One of them is the OBSE portion.
I plan on reducing the size of the array if I can.

The issue is this: if we DONT keep/save the backup array.. then we cant do IMMEDIATE LList replacement when you first start up Oblivion..
every time you started up Oblivion.. DLL would have to do an import from the file, and reprocess everything before it replaced the LLists == lots of time playing with vanilla LLists.

WITH the array, you start up Oblivion, and DLL just starts replacing right away.

I am thinking about ways to minimize the size, but there's always going to be SOME extra data backup.
I'll put it on top priority of things to do once summer hits next wednesday.. XD Until then, sowwy! 8(

I guess I could introduce an option to wipe the backup array every time it was done, so you didn't have to save it, but then you'd probably want "immediate backup" on as well.. which would just mean you'd freeze up every time you first started Oblivion. FUN!

As for if/why it may be taking longer than 1.08, I don't know why it would.

-----------------------------------

5. Crazy! Is your PC level 43ish still?
If it's spawning ALL creatures that are 60 and you're 43.. then perhaps there's a funky weird LList that, because of setting circumstances, ONLY ended up with Epic Tier creatures on it.. which would in turn mean that every creature that spawned from it was Epic Tier. OH nos!

I did consider for a while adding code that would change the "chance none" setting to something low if the LList contained only Epic Tier creatures.

-------------------------------------

6. There must be several spawnpoints there, because DLL doesn't spawn different creatures when it spawns multiples. Each different creature was a different spawnpoint.
Soo.... my guess is that there were 6-7 spawnpoints there from some mod? Maybe you have a mod that's adding spawnpoints?

What's it like in that same cave without DLL?
My guess is that there would be almost as many creatures. (aka, not just 1-2)

------------------------------------

7. Are you running with an Ambient Occlusion from OBGE? Have you tried the OBGE Liquid Water setup? It's got a patch that supposedly removes the shadows-in-the-fog oddity with it that you see on that last picture.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:55 am

I second omletted's observations regarding the saving delay. 20 odd seconds, for my really long mod list.

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  TR_OoT_Main.esm02  Cybiades.esm  [Version 2.0]03  Jog_X_Mod.esm04  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3]05  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]06  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]07  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]08  TamRes.esm09  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]0A  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]0B  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.39c]0C  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0D  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0E  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0F  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 4.9.5]10  CM Partners.esm11  CustomSpellIcons.esm12  HorseCombatMaster.esm13  John's Leveled List Overhaul.esm14  The Arsenal.esm**  Younger Hotter NPC's v1.0.esp  [Version 1.0]15  BlackScreenToggleFix.esp16  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.3.5]17  DLCShiveringIsles.esp18  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]**  Oblivion Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk DG_DS UOS.esp19  Better Cities .esp  [Version 4.7.0]1A  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp1B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp1C  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp1D  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp1E  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  Francesco's Dark Seducer Weapons Patch.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1F  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]**  LoadingScreens.esp20  LoadingScreensAddOn.esp**  LoadingScreensSI.esp21  Natural Selection.esp  [Version 1.0]22  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3]23  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]24  MIS Low Wind Merged.esp++  All Natural - MMM Patch.esp  [Version 1.3]25  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]26  PTAutumnTrees.esp27  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp++  Diverse Voices.esp  [Version 0.1a]28  Environment Mods Merged.esp29  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.3]2A  WindowLightingSystem.esp2B  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp2C  Ayleid Loot EXtension - OOO Dungeons.esp2D  diversegrasses.esp2E  Happyhannah's Wines.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]**  Personality Idles - Modified version.esp  [Version 1.3]2F  P1DseeYouSleep.esp30  Dialogs and Messages Merged.esp31  SkinMannequinVan-sleep.esp32  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.2]33  PTRoamingNPCs.esp**  PTRoamingNPCs Vwalk.esp34  Choices and Consequences.esp++  EQR_-_FCOM.esp35  Duke Patricks - Friendship Ring For Companion Detection.esp  [Version 1.8]36  DynamicLeveledLists.esp37  Enhanced Seasons.esp  [Version 1.3.1]38  Get Wet.esp39  Immersive Combat Music.esp  [Version 1.00]3A  Quest Log Manager.esp  [Version 1.3.2]3B  UI Mods Merged.esp3C  Streamline 3.1.esp3D  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.0]3E  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.9]3F  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.5]40  Enhanced Hotkeys.esp  [Version 1.4]41  DLCHorseArmor.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp  [Version 0.90]42  DLCOrrery.esp**  DLCOrrery Vwalk.esp43  DLCVileLair.esp44  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp**  DLCMehrunesRazor Vwalk.esp45  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]46  New Items Merged.esp47  ClassyClothingCompendium.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FineWeapons.esp48  PTArtifacts.esp**  Armamentium female.esp49  kuerteeHorseCommands.esp4A  Horse Management.esp  [Version 1.0]4B  Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp  [Version 1.03]4C  DLCThievesDen.esp**  DLCThievesDen Vwalk.esp++  MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp  [Version Beta]4D  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]4E  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]4F  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp50  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]51  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]52  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]53  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]54  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]**  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul Vwalk.esp**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 2.0]55  Choices and Consequences - OOO.esp  [Version 2.0]++  ArmamentariumLLVendors.esp  [Version 1.35]56  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]**  John's Leveled List Overhaul.esp++  John's Leveled List Overhaul for OOO.esp57  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]58  OBSE-Storms & Sound SI.esp++  The Arsenal - Leveled Lists for OOO.esp59  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5A  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]5B  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]5C  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesReduced.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]5D  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessReaversInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9]5E  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]5F  Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]60  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]61  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]62  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse RuneSkull OOO Loot.esp++  MMM More Spriggan and Ent Rain.esp63  Creatures Alive v1.3.esp64  Creature Diversity.esp++  ReteroX_BBEvilSkeletons.esp++  TamrielTravellerAdvScript.esp  [Version 1.39c]65  TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  TamrielTravellers4OOO Vwalk.esp++  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.39c]66  TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp  [Version 1.39c]**  TamrielTravellersHorseTextures.esp  [Version 2]++  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]**  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]67  FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]68  FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]**  Fransfemale.esp++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp69  Enhanced Quest Roleplaying.esp  [Version 2.03]6A  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.8]6B  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.1]6C  BladeOfTheHaunted.esp  [Version 2.4]**  BladeOfTheHaunted Vwalk.esp6D  BrotherhoodRenewed.esp  [Version 1.0.11]6E  (DC) Sutch Reborn.esp**  (DC) Sutch Reborn Vwalk.esp6F  Dwarven Mines.esp70  Heroes of Cyrodiil - All.esp**  Dwarven Mines Vwalk.esp71  FiveBlindMiceBeta.esp  [Version 1.3]72  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp**  Kragenir's Death Quest Vwalk.esp73  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp++  300 Feudal Empire.esp74  SunderedKeep.esp75  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.4]**  The Ayleid Steps Vwalk.esp76  thievery.esp77  thievery - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]78  TR_Stirk.esp**  TR_Stirk Vwalk.esp79  VOILA.esp7A  VOILA - Soldiers of Empire.esp7B  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp7C  DLCFrostcrag.esp**  DLCFrostcrag Vwalk.esp7D  Knights.esp7E  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  Knights Vwalk UOP.esp**  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp7F  SM Plugin Refurbish(Merged).esp  [Version 1.30]**  DLC_MOBS.esp80  Cybiades.esp  [Version 2.1]81  CybiadesDungeon.esp  [Version 2.1]**  Cybiades Vwalk.esp82  TOTF.esp**  TOTF Vwalk.esp++  TOTF Delayer.esp83  RTT.esp**  RTT Vwalk.esp84  The Lost Spires.esp**  The Lost Spires Vwalk.esp85  GuardsofCyrodiilRedux.esp  [Version 1.12]**  GuardsofCyrodiilRedux Vwalk.esp86  Ungarion1TheWelkyndSword.esp  [Version 1.4]87  Blood&Mud.esp88  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]**  Blood&Mud Vwalk.esp89  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp8A  The Mystery of the Dulan Cult.esp8B  MannimarcoRevisited.esp8C  MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp  [Version 0.1]8D  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_WelkyndSwordBlood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Ruin.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SlofsHorses.esp8E  FCOM_DulanCult.esp  [Version 0.9.9]8F  ElsweyrAnequina.esp**  ElsweyrAnequina Vwalk.esp++  Elsweyr - Drinks Patch.esp90  Tales from Elsweyr Anequina.esp91  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.6]92  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.9]**  Feldscar Vwalk.esp93  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.7]**  Vergayun Vwalk.esp94  Faregyl.esp  [Version 2.0.2]95  Faregyl+Anequina Patch.esp**  Faregyl Vwalk.esp96  Molapi.esp  [Version 1.0.1]97  PTMudwater.esp98  HeartOftheDead.esp  [Version 6.2]**  HeartOftheDead Vwalk.esp99  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]9A  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]9B  xulTheHeath.esp9C  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp9D  SutchReborn-TheHeath patch.esp9E  XulEntiusGorge.esp9F  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]A0  Lost Spires UL Compatibility Merged Plugins.espA1  Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.espA2  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]A3  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]**  xulChorrolHinterland Vwalk.espA4  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]A5  SutchReborn-LostCoast patch.espA6  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.3]**  xulBravilBarrowfields Vwalk.espA7  Tales Elsweyr Anq Bravil Barrowfields Patch.espA8  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]A9  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]AA  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]AB  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]AC  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]AD  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]AE  HeartoftheDead-ArriusCreek patch.espAF  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]**  xulRollingHills_EV Vwalk.espB0  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.espB1  xulPantherRiver.espB2  Blood&Mud-PantherRiver patch.espB3  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]B4  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]**  xulBrenaRiverRavine Vwalk.espB5  NakedNord.espB6  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.7]**  xulImperialIsle Vwalk.espB7  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]B8  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]B9  Blood&Mud-CheydinhalFalls patch.espBA  TearsOfTheFiend-CheydinhalFalls patch.espBB  DungeonsOfIvellon-CheydinhalFalls patch.espBC  Villages-CheydinhalFalls patch.espBD  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]**  xulAspenWood Vwalk.espBE  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]**  xulSkingradOutskirts Vwalk.espBF  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.2]C0  Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]C1  OOO-Snowdale Patch.espC2  xulCliffsOfAnvil.espC3  OOOCliffsofAnvilPatch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  xulCliffsOfAnvil Vwalk.espC4  KDQ Compatibility Patches Merged.esp  [Version 1.1]C5  NRB4+UL-II Patch.esp  [Version 5.0.1]C6  DwarvenMines-UniqueLandscapes Merged patch.esp**  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts Vwalk.espC7  West Roads.espC8  bartholm.espC9  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]**  bartholm Vwalk.espCA  Frostcrag Village.esp  [Version 1.0.2]**  Frostcrag Village Vwalk.espCB  PersonalPackGuars.esp  [Version 0.56]CC  Better Cities - House price patch.esp  [Version 1.0]CD  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]CE  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Real Lava 1.3.espCF  BlackScreenSneakFix.espD0  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 4.1.1]++  Improved Fires and Flames - Increased Sound.espD1  Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp  [Version 3.2.0]**  Leviathan Soul Gems Abridged.esp++  Less Food.espD2  Oblivifall - Ambiant Dungeon SFX.esp  [Version 1.2]D3  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 1.0]D4  Quest Award Leveller.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.espD5  Game Tweaks Merged.espD6  StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised.espD7  StarX VVR_OOO Patch.espD8  RefScope.esp  [Version 2.1.2]D9  AgarMoreVariedSpellEffects.esp++  CoblDeathFix.esp  [Version 1.20]DA  kuerteeCrimeHasWitnesses.espDB  WR Villages Addon.espDC  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]DD  Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp  [Version 5.1.1]DE  CombatFPSOptimizer.esp++  All Natural Combat FPS Optimizer Updated Patch.espDF  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed block and 150% damage.espE0  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.espE1  BFG's Enhanced Armory.espE2  Kobu's Character Advancement System.espE3  Kobu's 1.5x Slower Skills Mod.espE4  Kobu's Lighter Backpack Mod.esp**  Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp**  Cava Obscura - SI.esp**  Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 0.78]E5  1em_Vilja.esp  [Version 3.1]**  1em_Vilja Vwalk.esp**  1em_Vilja MMM FCOM Fix.esp++  AMB.espE6  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp**  Better Redguard v2.espE7  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]**  bgMagicEV Vwalk.esp++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]E8  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFangs.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]E9  bgBalancingVanillaGMSTMagickaRegeneration.esp  [Version 9.0UV-U]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, Beautification Better Redguards.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]EA  bgBalancingEVLAMEAddition.esp  [Version 10.51EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversityLAME.esp  [Version 10.5EV-D]EB  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 1.0]**  bgIntegrationEV - Alternative NPC Faces by LazyMonk.esp  [Version 1.00]++  bgIntegrationEV - Unique Clothes.esp  [Version 1.0]**  bgIntegrationEV Vwalk.espEC  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp  [Version 4.9.5]ED  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 4.9.5]EE  Better Cities - All Natural.esp  [Version 4.9.5]**  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition Vwalk.espEF  Better Cities B&M - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp  [Version 4.9.5]F0  Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp  [Version 4.8.0]F1  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp  [Version 4.8.4]F2  Better Cities - Tears of the Fiend.esp  [Version 4.7.0]F3  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp  [Version 4.8.1]F4  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp  [Version 4.9.1]F5  Better Cities - Thievery.esp  [Version 4.8.0]**  Better Imperial City Vwalk.espF6  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp  [Version 4.9.1]F7  Better Cities - The Lost Spires.esp  [Version 4.9.5]F8  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2.1]F9  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp  [Version 4.8.1]FA  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp  [Version 4.9.5]**  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]FB  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]**  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp++  CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]++  OOO Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp  [Version 1.03]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3]FC  LandMagicPatch.esp++  Slof's Manly Stride.espFD  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Also, the stutter is very noticeable when the DLL scripts are processing in game, and I too see the "End update Script" console messages when I observe the stuttering. This stuttering was not obser4ved prior to installation of DLL.

PS: Conscribe is found http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26510.
PPS: You can steal my sig. anytime

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:12 am

Hmm guess we'll have to live with the long save time for now. It really wasn't that long previously. Don't know about the option to wipe the backup array, immediate backup doesn't really take too long, and it's probably far less aggravating to wait a while in the beginning rather than 20 sec each time you want to save. On that note, possible to have auto immediate backup when DLL is ran for the very first time? For new users who do not know they have to wait for the backup/update processes to complete before everything works as intended.

I was level 61, remember?

62 now, so the spawn levels at 60'ish is ok. It's just the whole cave full of boss class spawns that is scary, and the low tier cutoff which isn't happening? Loaded a previous save and went back to the first cave without DLL, there were barely 15 or so creatures in the entire cave. With DLL, it was already about 20 in that one small area. Something's weird here. There probably are multiple spawn points there but each is spawning more creatures than it should be.

And nope, haven't jump on the Liquid Water bandwagon, have been following the thread though. Just waiting for the water height issue to be fix first. ^_^

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:18 am

I second omletted's observations regarding the saving delay. 20 odd seconds, for my really long mod list.

Also, the stutter is very noticeable when the DLL scripts are processing in game, and I too see the "End update Script" console messages when I observe the stuttering. This stuttering was not obser4ved prior to installation of DLL.

I just did my own test, on my setup which has 4300ish entries. My OBSE file was about 12MB. And yeah.. it took about 10-15 seconds to save. 8(
Not fun. Decreasing the array size went to #1 on my todo list. I think I can cut a few corners and hopefully shave some MBs off that.

And yes,
In my (LIMITED) playtesting I have experience, I have had these freeze-ups after DLL was done processing. Have you experienced these at all, Omelet?

Anyway, after a bit of fiddling.. I decided that I didn't think they were always associated with my "checkup script" that prints the "End update Script" message.

To test it, I changed the timing on it to run every 2 seconds. I definitely did -not- experience any freezeups every two seconds.. so I know it's not DIRECTLY related with my script running.

My best guess is that OBSE or something is maybe doing "inventory" or processing of some sort? If some other script or process (probably OBSE something), is going through all the data in the OBSE portion of the save.. then DLL would indirectly cause these freezeups due to the big array it stuck in there.

This is -highly- hypothetical, I honestly don't know if anything like this is done by OBSE. I do know 100% that it isn't due to my script running every 30 seconds. Once DLL is done updating, all the script does is check if the game restarted, and if you leveled up.

Hmm guess we'll have to live with the long save time for now. It really wasn't that long previously. Don't know about the option to wipe the backup array, immediate backup doesn't really take too long, and it's probably far less aggravating to wait a while in the beginning rather than 20 sec each time you want to save. On that note, possible to have auto immediate backup when DLL is ran for the very first time? For new users who do not know they have to wait for the backup/update processes to complete before everything works as intended.

I was level 61, remember?

62 now, so the spawn levels at 60'ish is ok. It's just the whole cave full of boss class spawns that is scary, and the low tier cutoff which isn't happening? Loaded a previous save and went back to the first cave without DLL, there were barely 15 or so creatures in the entire cave. With DLL, it was already about 20 in that one small area. Something's weird here. There probably are multiple spawn points there but each is spawning more creatures than it should be.

And nope, haven't jump on the Liquid Water bandwagon, have been following the thread though. Just waiting for the water height issue to be fix first. ^_^

I put the intro MessageBox to hopefully solve that issue. It states that they wont see DLL's effects for a while, and they can check the time left with the quest, and that they can speed it up with the performance settings. I think doing an immediate backup for the first time by default would get me tons of "WTF! DLL FROZE MAI GAME" comments. For me.. it takes a good 4m to do the immediate backup, I've got about 7K -> 4K unique entries. How long does it take for you?

One thing to know about me: memory svcks. Hehe.
Maybe you just got unlucky? You could load up DLL and go into the same cave fresh and see if it happens again? Maybe it was just a freak accident.

What're you spawn count settings?

Yeah, if school wasn't such a pain and I was actually playing Oblivion I'd probably uninstall it. I saw it happen once though and it was horribly jarring, haha.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:06 am

Nobody spells my name correctly. >_<

As with anithinks, it was stuttering a bit during the processing but it cleared up after it's done. Nothing really noticeable after that. You might want to consult the gurus over at the OBSE thread, maybe they have some insights.

Edit: Just saw your edits.

Immediate backup took a few minutes too, but compared to waiting 20 sec every save, it might be better. My game auto saves *alot*. Spawn count settings is at default. Third cave was the same, will have to see whether any other caves are the same. I'm almost afraid to go dungeon crawling now lol.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:10 am

I'll give em a posteroo and see what happens.

Well, I can definitely include an array wipe after updating as an option since it can't hurt to have it be optional.. XD

The other issue it would pose is when you level up. What does it do then?
The LLists are wiped with custom ones, there's no backup.

The only route I think I could take with it would be to NOT update to your new level when you level up. DLL would just keep the LLists as your previous level. When you restarted Oblivion and it does is immediate backup, it would then update to the correct level.

Problem with this would be if people played for 15 hours without quitting Oblivion and leveled up several times. Orr if they have multiple characters of different levels they play and like to switch back and fourth a lot.