[RELz] DLL - Dynamic Leveled Lists : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:44 am

Also, I'm thinking it has to do with multiple spawnpoints + bad luck that you're getting that mob.

If you look at the cond exports, you can see how entries of each count DLL is adding.
In the ones I'm looking at, there doesn't seem to be any strange count setups with a large % of counts > 1.

For example:

Spoiler

[0008EFEA]
3Grummite Whelp---------------SpawnLevel=1
3Grummite Whelp--------------BackupLevel=1
3Grummite Whelp-------------------Count1=56
3Grummite Whelp-------------------Count2=10
3Grummite Whelp-------------------Count3=6
3Grummite Whelp-------------------Count4=2
3Grummite Whelp---------------TotalCount=74
3Grummite Whelp----------SpawnPercentage=42.28%
3=--------------------------------------=.
4Grummite Beater--------------SpawnLevel=6
4Grummite Beater-------------BackupLevel=8
4Grummite Beater------------------Count1=18
4Grummite Beater------------------Count2=3
4Grummite Beater------------------Count3=2
4Grummite Beater------------------Count4=1
4Grummite Beater--------------TotalCount=24
4Grummite Beater---------SpawnPercentage=13.71%
4=--------------------------------------=.
5Grummite Magus Torturer------SpawnLevel=11
5Grummite Magus Torturer-----BackupLevel=13
5Grummite Magus Torturer----------Count1=2
5Grummite Magus Torturer----------Count2=0
5Grummite Magus Torturer----------Count3=0
5Grummite Magus Torturer----------Count4=0
5Grummite Magus Torturer------TotalCount=2
5Grummite Magus Torturer-SpawnPercentage=1.14%
5=--------------------------------------=.
6Grummite Painbringer---------SpawnLevel=16
6Grummite Painbringer--------BackupLevel=18
6Grummite Painbringer-------------Count1=1
6Grummite Painbringer-------------Count2=0
6Grummite Painbringer-------------Count3=0
6Grummite Painbringer-------------Count4=0
6Grummite Painbringer---------TotalCount=1
6Grummite Painbringer----SpawnPercentage=0.57%
6=--------------------------------------=.
7Grummite Deathdealer---------SpawnLevel=1
7Grummite Deathdealer--------BackupLevel=23
7Grummite Deathdealer-------------Count1=56
7Grummite Deathdealer-------------Count2=10
7Grummite Deathdealer-------------Count3=6
7Grummite Deathdealer-------------Count4=2
7Grummite Deathdealer---------TotalCount=74
7Grummite Deathdealer----SpawnPercentage=42.28%
7=--------------------------------------=.
----------------------------TotalEntries=175

None of the count entries seem off, and to test that DLL was actually putting into the LList was is displayed here, I went in game and placed this LList at my character about 25-30 times.

It's just a rough experiment, but there didn't seem to be anything abnormal.

Other than the death dealer. XD Bethesda didn't put a min on him.. tisk tisk. Perhaps I'll put in a check:
"If the unit is offset and spawning to be more than 20 levels different than was assigned to it, then don't force its level"
Anyway, all that is unrelated, haha... point is, I think the DLL count system is working fine.

Not to say that DLL isn't causing something strange. There could be other explanations.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:21 am

Will probably get a complete export done so that I can see what count entries some of the spawns I saw have. Might just dump it on you. ^_^ Couldn't get one done previously, it was taking very long and I had no clue whether it's still processing or already froze, had to force quit. Where do you go in-game to test the spawn count? It would be nice to know a location that has only one spawn point, but my game is so heavily modded I don't know whether a location has more points added or not.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:55 pm

Yeah, I imagine it could take something like hours to do a full 4K cond export, haha.

If you know the specific LList that the cave is spawning, you can artificially test spawning by doing "player.placeatme XXXXXXX" looking to see what spawned, and then "killall" so you don't have hordes of monsters hacking at you while you test.
The hardest part would just be identifying which LList the cave is spawning from.

If you just want to test any LList, not a specific one, then just pick one and have at it in some random forest. 8) That's all I did.

You could also try the route of saving right before entering the cave. Run to the location and see what's there, load, do it again. It wouldn't be just one spawnpoint, but it would let you test the same setup over and over to see any trends.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:20 pm

Played around with a boss leveled list, which I think one of the caves I went had. Had spawns of 1-5 all at around my level, so yes it's probably working as intended. So multiple spawn points + FCOM + high level character means very nasty spawns lol. Any way to limit the number of boss spawns? 1 spawn per boss spawn point is quite enough. o.o

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:49 am

Played around with a boss leveled list, which I think one of the caves I went had. Had spawns of 1-5 all at around my level, so yes it's probably working as intended. So multiple spawn points + FCOM + high level character means very nasty spawns lol. Any way to limit the number of boss spawns? 1 spawn per boss spawn point is quite enough. o.o

Yeah, me and ndervish were talking about making a boss exception list over on the DLL comments. I'll probably end up implementing the functionality to either have them have a maxcount of 1 and/or have bosses only spawn when they're part of Epic Tier.. that way you don't have bosses spawning left and right as "normal mobs" when you get to a high enough level. That's probably what you're experiencing, hehe.

Problem is there's no super easy way to automatically locate "unique" creatures that there should only be one of. I can make lists from the biggie mods like FCOM/Frans, but there wont be a bulletproof works-for-all system for it. It'll be a slow and steady buildup of a FormID exeption list

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:37 pm

Finally found my old account info for this forum and have made the trek over from the nexus...

2. Next I tried DLLProcessBackupImmediately set to 1, the console threw up some http://i56.tinypic.com/2cxfhb8.jpg. After a while http://i51.tinypic.com/208whl5.jpg popped up.
3. Different http://i53.tinypic.com/oigdci.jpg in the console at the end

I'm also seeing these same "Operator [ failed to evaluate..." error messages on console at a fairly high rate - I'm pretty sure it's above 1/second, but haven't actually watched them real-time to confirm that - after an hour or two of play. Maybe sooner and I just haven't noticed.

I've also gotten the error messagebox once and found a circular LEVC in Fran's which I manually broke in tes4edit. I haven't hit the messagebox again since that, but the console error spam was not affected. (Good thing this came up... I'm getting some incredibly weird problems tied to the Fran's new creatures plugin, so I'm going to try redownloading/reinstalling it and I would have otherwise forgotten to re-edit the circular LEVC.)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:37 am

Just to confirm:
You have 2.03, and you did a clean save and ran the new exe?

Also, the error messages may just be due to DLL choking on the circular LList. Try getting rid of it, run the exe again (or do a clean save of DLL), and see if you still get error messages.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:03 am

Just to confirm:
You have 2.03, and you did a clean save and ran the new exe?

No, still on 2.02, although I also got this with 1.80, for what that's worth. I haven't been able to update to 2.03 yet because tesnexus seems to be down. (I've been getting the "mysql error; this usually sorts itself in a few minutes" pages for several hours now.)

Also, the error messages may just be due to DLL choking on the circular LList. Try getting rid of it, run the exe again (or do a clean save of DLL), and see if you still get error messages.

After getting the messagebox, I removed the circular reference with tes4edit and have re-run the exe several times (both because I upgraded from 1.80 to 2.02 and because I've been adding and removing other mods).

With any luck, nexus will recover and I'll be able to grab 2.03 later tonight or sometime tomorrow and let you know whether this persists with the new version.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:28 am

Problem is there's no super easy way to automatically locate "unique" creatures that there should only be one of. I can make lists from the biggie mods like FCOM/Frans, but there wont be a bulletproof works-for-all system for it. It'll be a slow and steady buildup of a FormID exeption list

Let me know if there's anything I can help with. ^_^

No, still on 2.02, although I also got this with 1.80, for what that's worth. I haven't been able to update to 2.03 yet because tesnexus seems to be down. (I've been getting the "mysql error; this usually sorts itself in a few minutes" pages for several hours now.)

A bit off topic but yeah Nexus seems down still, wonder if it's that silly person playing with DDOS again.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:47 am

Let me know if there's anything I can help with. ^_^

A bit off topic but yeah Nexus seems down still, wonder if it's that silly person playing with DDOS again.

It's probably getting attacked again.

Anyways, what is your spawn # for each point set at?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:53 am

Anyways, what is your spawn # for each point set at?

It's at DLL's default spawn settings, which seem pretty reasonable so I didn't mess with them.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:40 am

No, still on 2.02, although I also got this with 1.80, for what that's worth. I haven't been able to update to 2.03 yet because tesnexus seems to be down. (I've been getting the "mysql error; this usually sorts itself in a few minutes" pages for several hours now.)

Yeah, 2.00 through 2.02 had bugs that were barring the rest of the script from processing correctly. Best bet is to just get 2.03 though. 8)
Nexus seems to be back up for me! 8D

As for the spawn count stuffs. The system for that has pretty much been set in stone for a while now, I haven't messed with that code for a long time. That + my earlier tests makes me highly doubt it's an issue with the spawncount system.

I think it's an epic boss creature being set as a Normal Tier creature making it spawn frequently + maybe something funky like that list might have had "placeholder" entries that spawned nothing and were level 1, and are now aren't being included due to DLL's exclusion of low levels with your settings? That could account for a higher spawn rate too.

It's hard to say what the true cause would be without knowing the LList that spawning there.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:41 am

I did a clean save and then installed version 2.03, so far i have not experienced the 20 seconds delay when saving games. BUT...i did notice it while i was using Streamline and Time Manager with version 1.08. After having switched to Kuertee's Autosave and Time Mod and having installed DLL v2.02/2.03 a save with Autosave and time/Time Manager takes only around 5 seconds i guess in my game. It is done quickly, so maybe something in Streamline causes a big delay in saving games?

Also so far i have not met a creature/NPC that is below level 8 when using version 2.03, again BUT that could be coincidence so far. (Although i hope not.)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:11 am

It all depends on how many LLists you have DLL moderating. Om and I have 4Kish and so it takes longer to save our bigger array. If you only have 600 or something, then you'll probably not notice much of a savegame delay.

Ah, so if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying autosaving with streamline and DLL seemed to choke up, while Kuertee's autosave and DLL doesn't really?
Interestin'

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:43 am

It's hard to say what the true cause would be without knowing the LList that spawning there.

The spawns are all defined in 01BossKnight, from FCOM_Warcry. With much cross-referencing all over it finally became part of LL1DaedricBeast50 which is the actual leveled list placed in the cave. Maybe you can figure out something from this. Little request, console command to do an immediate backup. Had just leveled and went into a new cave while DLL was still processing the backup/update, immediately missed the crazy spawns. :P I did managed to see a cute level 1 zombie hand, a la Thing from Addams Family, which I'd never seen before. And yes, I have a warped definition of cute. >_>

I did a clean save and then installed version 2.03, so far i have not experienced the 20 seconds delay when saving games. BUT...i did notice it while i was using Streamline and Time Manager with version 1.08. After having switched to Kuertee's Autosave and Time Mod and having installed DLL v2.02/2.03 a save with Autosave and time/Time Manager takes only around 5 seconds i guess in my game. It is done quickly, so maybe something in Streamline causes a big delay in saving games?

Just an additional note, I was experiencing the same delay with a vanilla save so think it's not specific to Streamline.

Edit: Loaded a save game after I'd leveled, DLL started the replacement process then continued with the updating process. Seems kinda redundant to replace only to have it get updated again afterwards. Also during the updating some entries seem to be getting processed twice.

Spoiler

LList Replacing Process at: 4200 of 4209
LList Replacing Process at: 4209 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 0 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 1 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 2 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 2 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 3 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 4 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 5 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 5 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 6 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 7 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 7 of 4209
DLL: Updating Process at: 8 of 4209

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:11 am

Awesome! Yeah, I'll definitely take a look at it when I get the chance. 8)

What do you mean "missed the crazy spawns"? As in they weren't there when you leveled?

The way DLL works is that it replaces the LLists with ones calibrated to your current level. If you level up, it slowly starts replacing them with ones calibrated to your new level. So, if you leveled from 63 to 64, you'd only ever get spawns that were calibrated to either one of those while it was updating.. depending on if the LList that spawned happened to be processed yet. You would never get a LList calibrated to level 1 while DLL was in the middle of updating to your new level. At least... you shouldn't. The only time LLists may be wacky is if you enter a new cave RIGHT after restarting Oblivion.. in which case you'd get vanilla LLists.

----
as for the redundant replacements:
The quick replacement system's top priority is to get your LLists re-replaced yesterday.

So, I -could- only quick replace UP TO where the update process is.. and then have the update process slowly finish updating and replacing the remaining LLists. That would remove any redundant processing. However,

Problem occurs when someone has DLL processing VERY slow with a big set of LLists, and it takes 30m for that update process to finish. That's 30m that vanilla LLists could be spawning. Having chances of vanilla LLists for 30m is a bigger nono in my book than some redundant processing.

So... the quick replacement system just replaces everything, so that at least it's up to speed with SOME sort of DLL customized LList. And then lets the slow updating process continue updating to your new level.

------------------

As for the processing doing the same LList twice.. it's not.
The update process has 7 "flops" or "chunks" it's split up into. Lets say you have your processing speed at 5.. so it processes 5 chunks every script runthough.

Now lets say you're processing chunks... you processed the last four of LList #6, and you move on to #7 and process one chunk.

Print that you're at LList #7

Next runthrough you process 5 more chunks.. you're almost done with #7

Print that you're at LList #7.

Next runthrough you finish and move on to #8.

That's how you'd end up with two outputs saying #7. It's not that it's processing 7 twice, it has just "halted processing during #7" twice.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:28 pm

Hmm, yeah the spawns were like pre-DLL moderated ones. I leveled and it was starting the processing, in the meantime I ran over to another cave. The spawns were all wuss and there was that level 1 zombie hand. Odd. Will have to test it next level, but that's a long long time away. As for the rest of the processing stuff, just wanted to ran it by you. It's all good if everything is as intended. ^_^

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:29 am

Ah, so if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying autosaving with streamline and DLL seemed to choke up, while Kuertee's autosave and DLL doesn't really?
Interestin'

Streamline is a red herring. I'm running Streamline and just get a very slight hiccup when it autosaves, slight enough that I often don't notice it until I see the "streamsaved" message in the top left. I had previously been having annoyingly long (3-5 seconds, maybe?) save times with both streamsaves and vanilla quicksaves (yes, I mix both methods...); I was assuming that saves had gotten quicker due to some ini tweaking I'd done, but that was also just about the same time that I upgraded DLL from 1.08 to 2.02, so it sounds like the DLL upgrade was the more likely cause.

As far as the overall question of save times, have you considered using Pluggy to store the DLL-processed lists rather than putting them into the OBSE save file? From general buzz, I get the impression that Pluggy may be slower to write files, but it would still likely come out quicker overall, since you would only have to write the data out once for each time it changes (player levels up; new LLs are imported) rather than doing it on every single save.

---
Switching topics in mid-post because I'm not sure yet whether the "OMG! You double-posted! How dare you?" police are active on this forum or not:
---

I've had another thought on the question of avoiding clone armies and Increased Spawn Button/Epic Button interactions, based on the idea I presented on nexus about replacing all the original LLs with ones that just spawn a dummy actor who calls the real LLs one or more times, then commits suicide:

Rather than having it just say "there will be three spawns, so call the real LL three times", the dummy creature could calculate a "spawn group level" (SGL) by some method, then generate creatures until the total levels of all spawned creatures equals or exceeds the SGL. This method would also address spawning larger groups of lower-level creatures - each would contribute fewer levels to the group, so it would take more of them to add up to the target SGL.

Example 1: Player is making his way through a mine somewhere and hits a goblin spawn point which triggers the Increased Spawns Button. Dummy actor spawns and calculates an SGL of 15. It rolls on the goblin LL and gets a level 4 skirmisher. This is less than the SGL, so it rolls again and gets a level 8 berserker. Still less than 15 levels, so it rolls a third time, getting a level 1 goblin, and then another level 1 goblin, bringing it up to 14 total levels spawned. The fifth roll gets a level 12 shaman, which puts the total above the desired SGL, so we're done and the dummy creature disables itself. (An argument could be made that the SGL should be treated as a maximum, in which case the shaman would also be disabled and not appear for the player, but I suspect it would work better with the SGL as a minimum and keeping the shaman around.)

Example 2: Same starting situation. First roll is a level 1 goblin. Second roll goes Epic and comes back with a level 20 warlord. SGL is satisfied and you get this pair of gobbos; since an Epic button activation will tend to fill most or all of the SGL with a single creature, there's no need to disable Epic Button when doing Increased Spawns.

Example 3: Same starting situation again. This time, the LLs keep picking low, ending up with 8 level 1 goblins and 2 level 4 skirmishers, so the player gets a swarm of runts to wade through.

I figure it would be best to tie this to the Increased Spawns Button (possibly with a new name, since it will be possible that a single higher-level spawn could fill the entire SGL) so that you don't get "one big guy and a couple low-level friends" groups everywhere - unless you decide that's what you want and set Increased Spawns to 100%. It also makes difficulty very easily customizable by setting the multiplier range used for calculating SGL from player level (e.g., SGL ranges randomly from 0.5 * player level to 1.5 * player level) while keeping the possibility that you could get a very hard encounter if other spawns get to a total of SGL - 1 levels and then the final spawn hits the Epic Button.

Major potential drawbacks would be:

1) You'd probably need to add a hard cutoff on the number of spawns in a group so that level 50 players don't melt their CPUs with trying to run AI for a spawn of 75 level 1 rats (while that would be freaking cool to run into, I know that my computer couldn't handle it and I kind of doubt that anyone else's could, either).

2) Anything that adds larger numbers of low-level spawns will tend to inflate the value of AoE attacks. ("All I need is one big fireball to clean them all out.") This may be either a benefit or a drawback, depending on who you ask.

Personally, though, I consider those potential drawbacks to be very small indeed.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:06 am

Yeah, 2.00 through 2.02 had bugs that were barring the rest of the script from processing correctly. Best bet is to just get 2.03 though. 8)
Nexus seems to be back up for me! 8D

As for the spawn count stuffs. The system for that has pretty much been set in stone for a while now, I haven't messed with that code for a long time. That + my earlier tests makes me highly doubt it's an issue with the spawncount system.

I think it's an epic boss creature being set as a Normal Tier creature making it spawn frequently + maybe something funky like that list might have had "placeholder" entries that spawned nothing and were level 1, and are now aren't being included due to DLL's exclusion of low levels with your settings? That could account for a higher spawn rate too.

It's hard to say what the true cause would be without knowing the LList that spawning there.

What is the default spawn count for each spawn point with DLL? I'm afraid I haven't yet tried it out either so I don't know yet.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:55 am

everytime I use Startquest dlltime it shows 3 minutes and 35 secs remaining. It's stuck there.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:08 am

What is the default spawn count for each spawn point with DLL? I'm afraid I haven't yet tried it out either so I don't know yet.

Take a look at DynamicLeveledLists.ini in your Data/ directory:

;-------------------------------- Spawn Count Settings -------------------------------------------------------;

;; Remember, there is a SECOND sheet in the excel file that simulate these settings.
set DLLSpawnIncreaseMax to 4 ;(4) ;; Sets the max # of creatures that can spawn at once
set DLLSpawnIncreaseBasePercent to 25 ;(25) ;; There will be more than one creature in a spawn X% of the time.
set DLLSpawnIncreaseFinalPercent to 20 ;(20) ;; The highest spawn count will spawn X% as often as a count of 2.
set DLLSpawnForceButton to 1 ;(1) ;; this overrides any original count numbers supplied by the original modders.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:00 pm

WALL:

As far as the overall question of save times, have you considered using Pluggy to store the DLL-processed lists rather than putting them into the OBSE save file? From general buzz, I get the impression that Pluggy may be slower to write files, but it would still likely come out quicker overall, since you would only have to write the data out once for each time it changes (player levels up; new LLs are imported) rather than doing it on every single save.

That is a fine idea, sir. 8) I'd have to find some way of associating which file goes with which character, but that wouldn't be a huge issue.
I think from the start I mentally decided on leaving I/O behind once I imported the FormIDs... but it's viable option now that I think about it.. especially since the save times are jarring. It may mean slightly slower "quick replacements" since the I/O would slow things down, but whatevs.

Rather than having it just say "there will be three spawns, so call the real LL three times", the dummy creature could calculate a "spawn group level" (SGL) by some method, then generate creatures until the total levels of all spawned creatures equals or exceeds the SGL. This method would also address spawning larger groups of lower-level creatures - each would contribute fewer levels to the group, so it would take more of them to add up to the target SGL.

Interesting idea with the SGL concept. I like it 8)

I was working with the nVamp team (for Fallout NV) when they were designing their spawning system, and they went with the dummy spawn system. They could afford to though, since they're an overhaul that other mods stem off of.. while DLL was a mod that was supposed to be tacked on to anything and everything. If we could devise a way to make custom dummys that pointed to their respective LLists (for any LList imaginable) (without cloneforming, as that undoubtedly causes bloat), then we could do it in DLL. It would be friggin awesome and open up a lot of doors.

1) You'd probably need to add a hard cutoff on the number of spawns in a group so that level 50 players don't melt their CPUs with trying to run AI for a spawn of 75 level 1 rats (while that would be freaking cool to run into, I know that my computer couldn't handle it and I kind of doubt that anyone else's could, either).

Haha, I think there is a hard cap of how many things can be in combat with the player at any given time anyway. XP

2) Anything that adds larger numbers of low-level spawns will tend to inflate the value of AoE attacks. ("All I need is one big fireball to clean them all out.") This may be either a benefit or a drawback, depending on who you ask.

DLL is meant to hand over options to the user. They can "do what thou wilt" with it as far as I care, hehe. If they think it's OP, then they can tweak it accordingly in my book.

What is the default spawn count for each spawn point with DLL? I'm afraid I haven't yet tried it out either so I don't know yet.

Default spawn count is:
Max of 4
25% to get a count > 1, with a
5% overall chance to get a count of 4

Hmm, yeah the spawns were like pre-DLL moderated ones. I leveled and it was starting the processing, in the meantime I ran over to another cave. The spawns were all wuss and there was that level 1 zombie hand. Odd. Will have to test it next level, but that's a long long time away. As for the rest of the processing stuff, just wanted to ran it by you. It's all good if everything is as intended. ^_^

Hurm... weird. I'll look into it. I don't even know how that could really happen, because vanilla LLists should still be "geared" towards your level. They wouldn't just spawn lvl 1's, you know?
Nonetheless, I'll do some testeroos when I get the chance and confirm the LLists transition smoothly on levelup.

everytime I use Startquest dlltime it shows 3 minutes and 35 secs remaining. It's stuck there.

Hrm.
1) Using 2.03?
2) If you upgraded, did you do a clean install and run the exe again?
3) turn on the print function and see if it's processing anything. Let me know what it says if it looks to be acting funny.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:04 pm

I've just been playing for a bit (maybe half an hour to 45 minutes?) with 2.03. A couple things noted:

- Saves have gone back to being painfully slow (7-10 seconds). The OBSE portion of the saves has gone from 315k (with 2.02) to 97k (the clean save I made while switching versions) to 8458k (my latest save), which largely explains the slow saves, but doesn't really make them any more pleasant.

- The Increased Spawn Button seems to be going crazy. I haven't changed anything in the ini, but, while making the trip with Berich Inian from the Kvatch chapel to the gatehouse, single-creature spawns have been a rarity. Where there are three spawn points clustered together, I'm getting one clannfear and eight atronachs. And then there was the clump of three scamps and a dozen hernes... I don't think I could have ever survived that without an AoE Command Creature...

Anyhow, if this just happened once or twice, I'd write it off as a fluke, but it's so consistent that it makes me suspicious that something's not working as intended. Is there any chance you've reversed the logic so that set DLLSpawnIncreaseBasePercent to 25 is giving a 25% chance for a single spawn rather than 25% for a multiple spawn?

- I have not seen the "Operator [" errors on the console with 2.03 yet, but I haven't played for that long, either. I am, however, getting notices printed to the console every 30 seconds or so stating that DLL has finished its processing. With DLLPrintUpdateStatus set to 0, shouldn't these messages be suppressed?

And, to save you the trouble of asking, I uninstalled 2.02, made a clean save, installed 2.03, rebuilt my bashed patch, and ran the DLL import exe before playing.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:53 am

Awesome, thanks for the feedback.

Yeah, the 315K with 2.02 was because of the bug that was blocking DLL from creating the backup array. The 8MB sounds more like it (you gotta remember it's remembering every entry of every LList you have, that's a lot of data).
The operator errors you were seeing in 2.02 were also due to that bug, and the backup array not existing correctly.

I'll suppress the 30 second printing function.

Hmm, I'm thinking there's definitely something wrong then since I've had two sources report the issue with spawn counts.

Looking into that, and if I get that done before HW calls my name again, I'll look into making the backup array with a pluggy file, since that seems to be the next most annoying thing for everyone, haha.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:02 pm

Okay, I did some tests. The DLLcondExport looks to the backup array to give output, which many not always be 100% reliable. The results looked just fine.. buuut, you never know, what could be showing up in the LLists might be way different.

So, I tried my other export: DLLsixport (yes.. i typed sixport for ages while testing DLL) It does a true export of one of my test LLists in DLL.
The test list starts out like this:
Scamp - level 1
another DLL LList - level 3
a sheep - level 5
a LList containing wraiths - level 8
wolf - level 11
will o the wisp - level 16
minotaur - level 27
imp - level 37

I had force levels on, so the imp went to lvl 1, and other such normal things.

I ran DLL with default settings and immediate backup, exported the LList and got this output (remember this export just iterates over the LList directly and exports the entries):

Spoiler

[-----------------------------------------0100457C]
10Name--------=Imp
10LeveltoSpawn=1
10Count-------=4
11Name--------=Imp
11LeveltoSpawn=1
11Count-------=4
12Name--------=Imp
12LeveltoSpawn=1
12Count-------=3
13Name--------=Imp
13LeveltoSpawn=1
13Count-------=3
14Name--------=Imp
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1128Name--------=Wolf
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1330Name--------=Stunted Scamp
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1332Name--------=Stunted Scamp
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1332Count-------=1
1333Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1333LeveltoSpawn=1
1333Count-------=1
1334Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1334LeveltoSpawn=1
1334Count-------=1
1335Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1335LeveltoSpawn=1
1335Count-------=1
1336Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1336LeveltoSpawn=1
1336Count-------=1
1337Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1337LeveltoSpawn=1
1337Count-------=1
1338Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1338LeveltoSpawn=1
1338Count-------=1
1339Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1339LeveltoSpawn=1
1339Count-------=1
1340Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1340LeveltoSpawn=1
1340Count-------=1
1341Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1341LeveltoSpawn=1
1341Count-------=1
1342Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1342LeveltoSpawn=1
1342Count-------=1
1343Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1343LeveltoSpawn=1
1343Count-------=1
1344Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1344LeveltoSpawn=1
1344Count-------=1
1345Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1345LeveltoSpawn=1
1345Count-------=1
1346Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1346LeveltoSpawn=1
1346Count-------=1
1347Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1347LeveltoSpawn=1
1347Count-------=1
1348Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1348LeveltoSpawn=1
1348Count-------=1
1349Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1349LeveltoSpawn=1
1349Count-------=1
1350Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1350LeveltoSpawn=1
1350Count-------=1
1351Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1351LeveltoSpawn=1
1351Count-------=1
1352Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1352LeveltoSpawn=1
1352Count-------=1
1353Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1353LeveltoSpawn=1
1353Count-------=1
1354Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1354LeveltoSpawn=1
1354Count-------=1
1355Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1355LeveltoSpawn=1
1355Count-------=1
1356Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1356LeveltoSpawn=1
1356Count-------=1
1357Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1357LeveltoSpawn=1
1357Count-------=1
1358Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1358LeveltoSpawn=1
1358Count-------=1
1359Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1359LeveltoSpawn=1
1359Count-------=1
1360Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1360LeveltoSpawn=1
1360Count-------=1
1361Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1361LeveltoSpawn=1
1361Count-------=1
1362Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1362LeveltoSpawn=1
1362Count-------=1
1363Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1363LeveltoSpawn=1
1363Count-------=1
1364Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1364LeveltoSpawn=1
1364Count-------=1
1365Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1365LeveltoSpawn=1
1365Count-------=1
1366Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1366LeveltoSpawn=1
1366Count-------=1
1367Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1367LeveltoSpawn=1
1367Count-------=1
1368Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1368LeveltoSpawn=1
1368Count-------=1
1369Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1369LeveltoSpawn=1
1369Count-------=1
1370Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1370LeveltoSpawn=1
1370Count-------=1
1371Name--------=Stunted Scamp
1371LeveltoSpawn=1
1371Count-------=1

Ugly to look at, which is why I transferred over to DLLcondexport. BUT! We do see that all the counts did end up like they shouldve. The epic creatures in fact don't even have multiple counts (that's what the more accurate counts setting is for).

So... this scares me, because all the tests I'm doing point towards things being normal.. but Omelet and you both highly suggest otherwise. I don't know what the cause could be, or what's different between our setups.

Any ideas?

What level is your character, btw, ndervish?

If you want to try the DLLsixport on your own.. you'll have to take the DLL.esp out of the mods to omit exceptions folder and run the exe again. Then do your backup/update and then run "startquest DLLsixport"

----------------

I'm going to try to get the Pluggy file backup system working. Not only will that make saving better, but it'll also make it super easy to see the state of all your LLists. No exporting.. just open up your backup pluggy file!

I don't know about you.. but i'm pumped! XD