1. The Stormcloaks are racists. We've been over that. (Of course the Dunmer were free thinking egalitarians who only sold Argonians, Khajit, and the occasional Nord into slavery to educate and enlighten them, right?)

2. The Imperials like torturing people, and think watching a guy starve to death locked in a cage is funny. The jerk at the beginning who is supposed to be so sympathetic basically says, "Sorry they're killing you but I was only following orders". And of course the fact that they're all the Thalmor's loyal servants does not increase their lovability, as far as I'm concerned.

So I say down with both sides!!

Actually I like both but the empire is still vastly superior to the stormcloaks.

A third option to put them all down, along some of the worse Jarls would have been nice. An option to side with the Forsworn and re-establish the Dragon Cult could have been interesting as well.

I'm more or less with you. My knee-jerk reaction was to side with the Stormcloaks, mostly because I have a problem with authority in general and the ban of Talos that the Imperials let pass didn't sit well with me. Racist or not, I figure if someone from one of the races the Stormcloaks discriminate against helps them fight, there's a chance they'll re-think their views, whereas the sins of the Empire seem to me to be too bogged down in politics and bureaucracy to change easily.

Also, I like the Stormcloaks' armor better. :disguise:

lol. war is hell?

I want to take out the Aldmeri Dominion. heh... joking. sort of.

Really, of all the factions I'm most bothered by the Thalmor and their self rightious holier-than thou crap. Entirely above and outside of the laws except where they choose to enforce them and they know they can get away with it because the AD is so big. So powerful. Isn't there a direct correlation between power and corruption and an accepted belief that absolute power corrupts absolutely?

If I had to choose between the two sides in our little piece of the world, I'm definately less bothered by the Empire and their hubris and unchecked might than I am by a group of ragabond Nords without 100 septims or a pot to store them in who can't accept the help of others just as dedicated to their "homelands" as they are out of ignorance and spite.

Besides, I like to feel like I'm on the right side, and there aren't many of those... so I choose the winning side and keep myself mercenary instead.

So far I have yet to do any of the civil war related quests on any characters, partially because all the characters I've gotten to any decent level so far haven't been either Nord or Imperial so they haven't actually cared about Skyrim's internal politics enough to join a side (or, in the case of the Altmer, she thinks both sides are stupid, and can't even be bothered to do the main quest, thinking it might actually be better to let the world end, if that's really what will happen).

But as for what I actually think? Yes, both sides are horrible in their own way. It's sadly realistic that way.

They both got their bad and good side, depends on the story of your character really (well at least for me). But personally, I'd side with neither. Empire is too far up Aldmeri's Dominions butt and Ulfric up his own.

Agreed, both sides have glaring flaws and I haven't even started the Civil War quests. Bethesda is going for that morally grey area that I'm not all that fond of in games.

Stormcloak Pros:
-Overthrow the leaders that let the Aldmeri Dominion crush them
-Allow for worship of Talos

Stormcloak Cons:
-Racist jerks
-Screw over every non-Nord race in Skyrim
-Help weaken the empire even more so that the Aldmeri Dominion will likely gain more power that they will use to crush Skyrim.

Empire Pros:
-Unified empire makes it stronger, allows for better trade and less war amongst the different provinces
-Unified empire could also regain a foothold in which they might be able to overthrow the Aldmeri Dominion

Empire Cons:
-It's not the empire we remember from Oblivion. It's basically a puppet government run by elves.
-Ban the worship of Talos
-The Aldmeri Dominion wants to show the superiority of the elven races over all others (more racist jerks, hurrah!)

I was dissappointed that when my Dunmer joined the Stormcloaks, I couldn't go up to that guy who shouts insults in the grey quarter and go "what now, punk?" or try to convince other dark elves to join the rebellion (Last I checked, the Dark Elves aren't exactly fans of the Thalmor)

My first reaction to the civil war was to kill both sides and take over Skyrim for myself....of fracking course Bethesda wouldn't allow such a thing.

Wouldn't kohr-ah just kill everyone in skyrim?

Imperials are "sadistic bullies" now? :rofl:

It's intentional -- there aren't clear-cut good guys and bad guys in the conflict so it's not a black and white choice. So it really depends on which you think is the lesser of the two evils.

I'm actually not doing either side's questline, in hope that someone adds a professionally made mod to do just that and wipe out both of them. Until then I'll have to be satisfied with occasionally raiding both side's forts and killing everyone inside.

Figured I wasn't the only one.

I was going to side with the stormcloaks, but the more I heard about Ulfric, the less I wanted to side with them (he's a putz). The more racism unleashed by the nords, the more I wanted to keep the pimp hand strong. Yes, I'm butthurt about the racial oppression I've dealt with. I'm also butthurt about the repression of religion, because I'm not part of the majority (monotheism).

I sided with the empire because I don't see the Thalmor as part of the empire, and because if Skyrim became independent, they would be more likely to be attacked outright by the Thalmor (being no longer under the protection of the empire). Religious freedom is important, but to me, slightly less important than racial integration. The point that the empire had to actually bend to the Thalmor is.. Well, things like that have happened, and using only positivity, while the Thalmor are only technically part of the empire, they may eventually drop their pretenses and move on from the extreme racism or the empire may just get strong enough to drive the Elven supremacists out.

I think Bethesda's entire point in the story is to bring up someone's morals. Picking one side over the other isn't the grey area. It's when you side with the ulterior motives each side has. Both sides are right, but both are, well, wrong. It's really a lesser of two evils kind of deal.

I've done both sides.

I suppose any character I play should hate the fact that there is a war at all. Who would like that? The fact that the real threat is the Thalmor, and you can't really do a thing to them, makes going with either side kind of pointless.

Maybe a DLC will give us some resolution to this matter.

The three cons for the Empire are foisted on them by the Dominion, not something inherent to themselves like the Stormcloaks' cons.

And according to Tullius after an Imperial civil war victory, it sounds like the Empire will be at loggerheads with the Dominion again before too long. The Concordat was an interbellum at best.

DLC, I'm betting. :nod:

And wouldn't that be a good rallying cry to skyrocket legion recruitment in Skyrim? "Fight this war with us, and you'll get back your right to openly worship Talos! Win this war, and you shall keep the right!"

From what I learned:

The Thalmor are not mantaining the empire. I suspect they are not strong enough to take skyrim all at once. They do not care about the dragons at all. They are giving a poo about that, if you want to know.

The thalmor hates the Stormcloacks. I saw a group of thalmor patrol kill a entire group of stormcloacks. And I got bounty from solitude when I helped the stormcloacks.

A thalmor mage said me once in the main quest that "We are not in peace with the empire. It is just like the calm before the storm."

I suspect the Thalmor is not strong enough to take skyrim or, maybe, all tamriel. So they're manipulating the people meanwhile. Don't know exactly why but OK. Maybe they want to proof their godlike race first. Who knows? I'll kill each one anyway.

Skyrim is a "corridor". This game calls for another game. Another TES to clear the skies. Because don't matter what you do, there's no conclusion in the story!

Kill the thalmor. And now?! Kill alduin. And now?! Kill the Stormcloacks.. AND NOW?! You start wandering around after finishing the quests... AND NOW?

There's something misty in the air about this game. The story seems to be hanging, waiting for someone conclusion.

Better cons would be

Doesn't aid other provinces during crisis or provides bare minimum support.
Terrible at managing itself.
Doesn't take any action against growing threats.
Surrenders when it has the upper hand.
Doesn't know how to negotiate anything.
Kills useful political prisoners.

Keep the rabbits. They know how to stay out of the way.

Berserk a Chicken in one of the towns also. You'll see the chickens' fury.

Ya. It's so morally grey that I cant identify with either side at all, no matter how hard I try. Idk if its just me, but it svcks.

After 80 hours, I still haven't heard a compelling pitch from either side, so I'm staying out of it.

I'd say there was a better case for joining the orcs, on evidence to date...

Yeah that whole civil war quest line left a bad taste in my mouth and I haven't been able to push myself to complete it. I originally sided with the Stormcloaks because, well, they saved my life from the Imperials. (Seriously, only a complete moron would have joined Hadvar in Helgen. I don't care how decent a guy he seems to be, dude still sent you to the chopping block when ordered to.) The Judge Dredd wannabe Imperial Captain who ordered your death without any evidence and the cages filled with tortured corpses in the keep really helped cement that dislike of the empire. And when I read the in-game book about the Great War, it pissed me off how the Empire abandoned the Redguards to fight the Thalmor on their own. So yeah, I really didn't like the empire.

Then I visited Windhelm and actually met Ulfric, and it turns out the guys a brutal, racist assassin and iron-fisted dictator. And that loading screen that describes how he shouted High King Torygg "nearly to pieces" did not help my opinion of him at all. That, plus realization that if Ulfric succeeds in dividing the empire even further the Thalmor will probably overrun them and conquer the world really makes me want to support the Empire.

So I am conflicted and can't decide what to do. :confused:

I won't say he's not brutal. Markarth proved he is. Guy doesn't say anything racist though. He doesn't bother to send guards to people that don't support his cause. If you side with him, he'll look out for you, otherwise you're going to have to deal with problems yourself.

He didn't shout torygg to pieces. People that were at the duel state he used thu'um(Namely Fus Ro Dah) and then stabbed Torygg through the heart. The nordic tradition is that the strongest can lead. There's no restrictions to methods. Either side could have used magic. If Torygg had known them, shouts would have been acceptable from him too. The thu-um part was a symbolic move on Ulfric's part, Tiber demonstrated his mastery of the voice to the nords as well when he sought to form the empire. Ulfric could have easily beaten Torygg without the shout(He's a war vet and torygg barely has combat experience at all).

Division from the empire isn't a bad thing if the empire isn't able to manage its own forces(As demonstrated during the great war). Not to mention allowing enemy infiltrators to freely study your forces and positions is a big no no. If Great War 2 pops up, both hammerfell and skyrim would ally with the empire despite their spats with them. 3 nations that can manage their forces effectively > 1 nation that bumbles around with its large size. Both the nords and redguards are great sailors, and can provide a good deal of naval harassment and raiding. They're both good warrior races too and can defend themselves. The empire can call on battle mages from High Rock and its own legions. Hopefully they've learned from the first great war and are actually gathering intel of their own on the thalmor activities.



Join the khajiit. They don't really care for this whole war thing. Give em some skooma and all their troubles drift away.