i'm not saying oblivion was badly written (haven't played morrowind or daggerfall yet, but plan to) but it is just average.
when i play FO: new vegas, the writing are really superior to FO 3 and oblivion. the characters, dialogue, quests, everything just brilliant. if that game aren't that glitchy it'd be 10/10 for me

Bethesda focuses more on exploration and gameplay than the writing, although Morrowind had pretty good narrative. I would assume that they would try to improve upon their writing for Skyrim as that was one of the chief complains of Oblivion, but I wouldn't hold your breath; it's simply not what they do best. If you're more interested in writing than open world exploration I would suggest playing things like Dragon Age and Mass Effect (BioWare's stuff.)

should you be one criticizing writers? and you dont play ES for the main story so writing doesnt matter that much

Game writing and forum grammar are two very different things...

I can make my own stories.

Ehhh... I don't mean to say you're wrong, but I thought the writing in FO3 was a lot better than in New Vegas. New Vegas gave you more options, so it had way more outcomes, which is cool, but the story itself wasn't nearly as interesting, personal, or intriguing as that of FO3. For example, I loved the whole feeling you get when you escape the vault and see the world for the first time. That's just my opinion though.

But they don't just write the MQ though... They hand write all of the side quests/random quests, they are just governed by Radiant Story

yeah, but good writing equal better experience on the game. the lore will be told better, the characters will really have deep personality, and good writing wouldn't ruin the gameplay or exploration which is TES series main appeal

Dont start a F3 vs Vegas... I bet you wont be playing the game becouse of the writing though.

No, it may detract from the sandbox elements. You have to understand that Bethesda, just like any other company, doesn't have unlimited resources and people. They have to focus on something, and they've chosen sandbox. (Judging from past games.) This isn't a bad thing, but it may not be some people's cup of tea. Personally, I prefer it this way. I didn't like NV as much as FO3 despite the better writing, simply because it took place in an empty, boring world.

The world of TES is not one built to acomidate writers. Look at what makes a story in the first place. Intro, character development, climix, and then conclution.

Intro? TES doesn't have an intro. Sure, you start off in a prisson, but its left open so us as a player can come up with our own intro. Thus...the writing has to be vague enough to acomidate all possible ideas.

Character development? We make our own characters with their own past. They can't develope a character they know nothing about. So once again, they have to leave it to us while trying to create dialoge that matches every possible outcome. Not to mention this game is a sandbox, so we can do any quest at any time.

climix? A few problems. One, we all ready know we'll survive, because we get to play after the main quest. Two, we can play the main quest at any time, so it could be the first thing we do or the last. There's no way to build up to a climix, because it is completely dependant on what the player wants to do. And three, any twist that players wouldn't see coming would be hard to pull off believably.

Like, remember how Martin said he dabbled in the daedric arts when he was a kid? Let's pretend that in the end of the quest Martin throws down the amulet and rejects his birthright, because Dagon is controling him by using the influence of that evil book we gave him along with some other mumbo jumbo magic. The player would then have to pick up the Amulet and somehow battle Dagon all by our lonesome. As cool as that sounds, it would come off stail, because we all ready know we're not able to ware/use the amulet so that would be out. Thus, a lowly little mortal would some how have to battle DAGON and win, with no mistical aid what so ever. Even freeing Martin would come off as strange and hardly believable, because we're still somehow out-doing a daedric god.

And finally the conclution. Any conclution is going to be weak when you can go pick carrots after the main quest like nothing happened. The conclution has to be weak enough to allow the player to go about their average lives again, because people would be upset if you couldnt.

So the story in such a world as TES is nearly impossible to pull off, because we can do whatever whenever. As for dialog between people, its hard when that dialoge isn't in a cutscene. Other games have the ability to break action and go into cutscene to make sure the faces match the mood and words, but TES doesn't get that. They need to somehow get cutscene level facial animations into every npc. That's why I believe people dislike the dialog in past games.

If people really just don't like what the other is saying...well then I don't know...cause I always thought the words themselves were good.

There is never a bad excuse for bad writing. And we're not talking plotlines, here. I'm talking general dialogue with NPC's. Shivering Isles was a step in the right direction for Bethesda.

As for the NV vs. FO3 dialogue, it really boils down to Obsidian vs. anyone else. It was the same thing with KotoR II (Obsidian) and KotoR I (Bioware). Obsidian is without a doubt the best at writing plotlines, dialogue, and unique characters. They're just crap when it comes to designing the actual world the dialogue takes place in. I loved The Sith Lords; but it was only for the story. It was an ugly game as far as art direction and physical design was concerned. The original KotoR had some really awesome environments, but was rather generic plotwise. Really, who didn't see the Revan "twist" coming? NV's design was especially atrocious; the outskirts of New Vegas is about as bad of a design as you can get. But man, it had more interesting moments then FO3 did. FO3 was just more consistent across the board.

Your writing isn't exactly perfect either you know... But either way, he does have a point.

I hope Skyrim has excellent writing. I thought they did a great job with Shivering Isles in that regard

Actually, the reason NV was better was cuz Obsidian is partly staffed by old guard from Black Isle. They had experience.

i had no problem with the writers in either morrowind or oblivion

The main quest is one of the main draws for me. Believe it or not, it is possible to enjoy exploration and the story at the same time. Without any cognitive dissonance, even.

Whether or not they hire good writers is irrelevant. You could hire Josh Whedon to do your story and characters, and you still run into the same problem.

It comes down to story vs gameplay. To much Story and Character Development, and you limit what the player can do. To much freedom to do what you want, and your story elements will suffer.

Bethesda has always prided itself in making games that let you tell your own story when it comes to your character, and letting you do what you want. So the gameplay will always come first.

That said I don't think Oblivion's story was too bad, nor Fallout 3's apart from the original ending.

thanks for pointing my point

I would like to see better writing, and more inventive things done with non-plot characters overall. Through both Morrowind and Oblivion, I sadly have to say that I never felt any sort of actual, genuine attachment or anything of the sense, npc, enemy, or otherwise. I mean, yeah, there were a few diamonds in the rough here and there, but not enough to make me care, and the ones that were there didn't impact me enough to even remember them by name.

It was all just about my character, and that is good, but at the same time it made me feel unaccountable for my actions, because I knew, that everyone in the game was nobody. There was never a time where I would kill someone, and then feel bad about it and reload due to previous interactions with them, or conversely...kill someone and genuinely feel glad because I hated them for doing something truly rotten.

None of the characters to me were truly memorable like in more story driven games, save for my player character, and that cheapens the experience for me because it felt like I was truly, the only actual "person" in a world that should be filled with "people".

new vegas writing is superior to FO 3? Hmm, that is an opinion for sure bud because I think it is the other way around. FO 3 had a lot more surpise to their plot than NV.. totally different companies too so you can't really say that Bethesda wrote NV when it was Obsidian. I do believe, however, that Skyrim will have an incredible story in comparison to Oblivion. I personally disliked grinding the gates to get the sigils and the ending of Oblivion made me feel less than epic but they have promised that you will be directly involved in the ending of the game this time around.

The main plot was [censored]. Most of the choices were black and white good/evil choices. The ending was incredibly contrived (no, friend, although I can easily enter the radiation chamber so that nobody has to die, you have to enter it yourself or send what's her face because [censored] you that's why). The way you talked Eden into cyber-suicide was basically saying NO BUT COMPUTRONS CANNOT INTO PRESIDENCY. NV had much better writing in general.

they fixed the ending of FO3 with the ability to send the mutant in. I dunno man, that is your opinion and I respect that. I just don't agree with it.

Most of the good writing in TES games were in the books that fleshed out the world and presented lore to those who looked for it. I'd like better dialog writing, otherwise everyone you meet is just a generic soulless npc. They have been doing the sandbox for quite a while now, so its not something they are using tons of dev time trying to get good at.

This definitely. Just stocking my wine cellar was hours of interesting gaming, and getting a rare book collection can take longer than all the guilds and the main quest combined. And that's just collecting, before you even consider role playing a character with a grudge ( trapping Necromancer's souls never gets old ).
Good writing is of course a great bonus, But TES is about giving you a world to adventure in, whether you follow the written plots or not.