Yes because interacting in a modern computer game isn't done about dialogue only anymore.

To answer your question: Because there are groups in a game that don't like you.

Well, the fiends outside the Vault are "supposed" to be so hopped up on chems that they can't rationalize anything. While the Raiders in FO 4, while they do use chems, are seen in their terminals of having goals, recruiting people, etc. From a gameplay mechanic, FONV needed someone to kill, because well, it isn't as action orientated and it needed something to fill that up for those who love to kill stuff. FO 4, is overkill on the killing. What needs to be done is a nice happy medium.

Also, I'm sure I got just as many hours in FO 4 as you do, probably roughly 200 hours+(started on PS4 and had to wait for my data to rollover to install on PC, been playing on PC since after first week in December).

There are some okay terminals but nothing like "Omg". Arc Jet was cool. Poseidon, was awful, and there like 2 or 3 different Poseidon locations in game. All the kos hurts my immersion in the game. How can people survive when around every corner is raiders, SM, gunners, synths, ghouls, who are all blood thirsty?

It all swell that maybe mods can fix some of this stuff, but the vanilla experience isn't very good. There are some strokes of brilliance, but a lot missed the mark, especially the Fallout game mark, and the reviews on Steam and such all represent that, too. Even the good reviews for the game that recommend often times say "good game, bad Fallout game/bad quests/bad RPG". This isn't being a BGS hater, it is noticing the flaws in this game and WANTING a good Fallout game.

edit: You can join the convicts in FONV, or even if not join them keep them from KoS, even if you side with Goodsprings.

Reading terminals equals having a one on one conversation with someone to you?

There are shoot them only people in New Vegas. The Vipers and some other minor groups and random people. But we can interact with many groups, even join them. The Khans, The Families on the Strip, The Powder gangers in Vault 19 and so on.

My point with Fallout 4 is there are many locations that are populated with "bad guys" that could have been opened up to letting the player into them. Much like the guys in Vault 19 are "bad guys" but they don't shoot us on sight and same for the Khans. So why could the people at the Combat Zone, that Race Track or that floating city have been like that? There is more then enough random people and things to kill in Fallout 4. They could have left some of it open for the player to go into.

Edit: How could it have hurt the game to give the player more options?

And that is pretty weak reasoning. Pretty much everyone is out to kill everyone. And yet they clearly live in groups and form communities of their own. Again it is a stupid business model to kill any and all potential customers.

This topic is about the replay value. Not about a overall game critique. I have my fair share about bad stuff in FO4 and NV too. But actually thats offtopic. What everyone "want's" from a "perfect" Fallout game is different from every person. I disagree that the overall critique is "good game, bad Fallout game/bad quests/bad RPG". That's the Obsidian and Dinosaur religious fan mantra when it comes to Bethesda.

You can't join the convicts. But you can join the Powder Gangers. The convicts are aggressive only. The convicts split up from the Powder Gangers.

So you are reducing the areas that you criticesed a few moments ago not to have as personal playground suddenly to terminals?

and why everything need to be like NV????? If u translate it to real life Faction dont tent to be like on NV where they let u to speak to then so u cant avoid shooting.

Game critique goes hand in hand with replay value. We are talking about why the game doesn't offer much in the way of replay value for those who don't make or use mods.

Don't like that people have things to critique about Fallout 4? Well just fall back on the "they just hate Bethesda" which seems to be religious now.

More like Fallout, Fallout 2 and New Vegas in which we the player actually have options to how quests are done.

It's about focus of the discusssion but fine think of me as the evil, evil enemy... (you do it anyway).

No I don't think of you as evil or an enemy. You are a fellow member of the forums.

Things can get heated at times but you aren't my enemy. I would hope you don't see me that way.

I am just tied of the "you just hate Bethesda" argument working it's way into conversations.

Well you know what I meant, the convicts are only in Primm, and are not connected to the Powder Gangers(don't lose Powder Ganger rep killing em). The convicts are a separate gang that pretty much decided to be raiders and murder and rob people.

And ya, I would say with lack of options, the game does lack the replay value compared to the other games that had more side activity. Even Skyrim had more side activity, every town, even the minor holds, had quests, 4 guilds to join and do quests, 2 factions at war, pick one and do quests. FO 4 is like the Civil War in Skyrim but with 2 more factions to choose from, and that the MQ(the war in Skyrim was just a large side quest, and I think the war in FO 4 should have been a sidequest, with something entirely different as the MQ).

No matter what, you replay this game, pick a different build, ignore the MQ, you will spend 90% of your time killing stuff, and run into the same side quests that you can do again, with very little choice. Unless you ignore those, too. What is great about replay value when you just gonna be killing? I don't replay GTA or Far Cry, either. You can mess around with different builds, but by about level 20 or so you will be experiencing the game mostly the same way(cept for maybe how you choose to kill). I always thought replay value is based on options within the game, with branching quests and different outcomes, and I don't see it here.

A bit offtopic (because in my opinion it doesn't hurt the replay value) is that FO4 is really too dense and as I already mentioned (more ontopic) the concept behind the dialogue (not the actualy dialogue or the voiceacting) does too.

And I had a good reason to use the term convicts and not Powder Gangers in my previous post.

My second playthrough is a sweep through the landscape and discover as much as possible. I disagree that there aren't enough sidequests for multiple playthroughs. They are there but they won't show up if you follow the layed out path and fasttravel through the game (which are you highly tempted todo espescially with the collecting stuff for settlements).

game critiques dont go hand to hand with replay value really.

Just looking the pool, more ppl think the game have replay value, like most pool on the forums ppl tent to agree on what the game do.

Right now i have only find really few bad critiques about the game, most coming form die hard fans of RPG (where the critiques are similar to Fo3) or fans of the old Fallout that dont want to change.

I do plenty of exploration. There is plenty of exploration. Having a bunch of exploration doesn't = quality. The side quests all play out exactly the same, unless for some reason you being a "jerk" then they are mostly the same and someone cusses you out and you may get less of a reward after the lecture, which if you're a jerk character, why did you accept the quest in the first place and put yourself in all this danger, only to pull the last second "jerk move"?

I must have played through PS:T four or five times. There's not that much you can do differently from one run to the next - it basically comes down to how you build your party, how you develop the Nameless One, maybe unlock some conversation options you missed last time - but I found for replay there. Of course it helped that there were some excellent dramatic moments like the confrontation with Ravel Puzzelwell; if PS:T had been a book I'd have read that scene a great many times.

That's an interesting question. I buy Bethesda games because they offer excellent value for money. I've had countless hours of play from Fallout 3, Oblivion, Morrowind and Skyrim. The only non-Bethesda game where I logged anywhere near the same number of hours was probably the original Civilization, and that's a very different kind of game.


Obviouslym this is a very personal observation, but Fallout 4 feels different. In all the other Bethesda games I've played, I've never once felt that I had to fight the main quest the way I do with Fallout 4. I've never had the feeling of alienation from the protagonist, that the hero wasn't me (or me cast into a different role and setting) but was someone else - and (to make matters worse) someone who I didn't much care about. I do think that is going to limit the replay potential for me. Others may have a different experience, and as you point out we have to respect that.


Will I have had my money's worth? I suppose the question is by what criteria? If you break it down by enjoyable hours of play per dollar spent then it's probably comparable to something like (say) Far Cry 3. But then I never finished FC3 and have no intention of playing FC4. I hold Bethesda to a rather higher standard than that, based the quality of their previous games. And by that yardstick, I feel Fallout 4 is lacking.


I suppose people could tell me that I'm just being greedy or have an exaggerated sense of my own entitlement or some such thing; I just want the same exceptional value that I've always had from Bethesda.

Here we disagree. But you have to consider that for me quests aren't for me dialoge only. I enjoy stuff like making power armor coating and experience the history that lead to that or finding general atomics robot mall and "play" with it (only two small examples which aren't dialoge only quests).

actually your opinion is a valid as anyone else.

For me probably i never feel connected to the protagonist i always play Fallout or TES games as someone else and no as myself so maybe that why im not so much affected. Like u have on your comment 4: The singple parent for me 4: is The sole survivor, been a parent or no is irrelevant really.

Well, what I'm saying is that some of the locations would be(and seem better suited) to have some kind of interaction besides kill and loot and look in this safe. This doesn't work for everything, but there are locations in game when I get there I'm like "oh man this COULD have been super cool". Not like every single location needs this, it fine to just have places to explore(would be nice if more terminals were actually interesting though), but some places are begging for life where there is none(unless it kos).

Dense as in the locations are too close together? I would agree with that. Many times I would get into a fight with one group of raiders and then I get caught up with the Super Mutants in the building across the street. Some ghouls from a near by graveyard. It just becomes a huge battle with exploding cars and such. Which can be fun. An Epic fail when that happens while trying to sneak my way through the area

We all have different ideas on what gives a game its replay. For me it isn't there. I am not compelled to replay it like I am with the other games. Fallout 3 I replayed several times, given that it was the first Fallout game since Fallout Tactics. So the newness of the game kept me interested. It wasn't what I expected but it was new! Fallout 4 has a lot of things I like about it and I am sure as people start talking about settlements and so on I will get back into the game.

But all I am doing now that the main quest line is done is running round gathering resources to build things and that isn't all that great. I am not getting out of Fallout 4 the same things I got out of the others.

I'm the sort who plays a Beth main quest once, just to see. I figure I'll do it 4 times on F4.

But I'm an exploration wonk, a crafter and builder, so I don't forsee getting tired of this game any time soon.

Hey Styles! I guess they read our farming argument from a few years back, huh?

There is always the feeling in a game there could be so much more... regardless which game it is. We players are a bunch who can't really get satisfied ever.

About your spoiler: There are dead bodies to find.

I did find the bodies, except one dude(who I assume still alive, sounded like a sniper/stealth type), and when I looked in game guide, it didn't mention his body, either.

Which is a great effect on it's own and yes it's great to finding routes (which often exist) for a sneak character not to get caught in the constant battles (replay to find them ). Still it's overdone imo. in FO4.

I have given up on game guides a long time ago because they are always incorrect in certain things and only add more confusion then they actually solve.