Does Hermaeus Mora know about CHIM?

Post » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:06 am

Hermaeus Mora is the Demon of Knowledge, Lord of Secrets, whose dominion is over forbidden knowledge. It stands to reason, then, that he would know the most forbidden of all secrets: The existence of the Godhead and CHIM. Now, as a Daedric Lord, he is obviously self-centered enough to avoid zero-summing upon discovery of the knowledge. Given the power of CHIM, he would probably use it.

Further evidence of him knowing CHIM is found in the Black Books. Waking Dreams of a Starless Sky is chock full of dangerous knowledge about the Godhead, and seems to talk about the Observer portion of the Enantiomorph in particular("The eyes, once bleached by falling stars of utmost revelation...). It's a Black Book, so we can safely say he knows its contents. Knowing of the Godhead and the illusion of reality should make someone zero-sum, but Mora obviously didn't so he probably has CHIM.

I think it goes further than that though. Maybe, just maybe, he knows about the Amaranth. Think about it. The road to becoming Amaranth is "Take part in enantiomorphic event as the Observer->Become sensory deprived from the maiming->Begin to dream your own reality", if I understand it right and we take the Children's Anuad as the source.

Now examine Hermaeus Mora's actions in the Dragonborn DLC's main questline. It's a textbook enantiomorphic event, notably different from the Civil War enantiomorph in a number of ways.

1) The LDB is the King, not the Observer.

2)The final battle takes place on a tower.

3)The imagery of the Champion taking the Rebel's heart out is present. Notably, Hermaeus Mora is the Champion.

Think about it. Mora had absolutely no reason to kill Miraak there. He could have let you lop Miraak's head off right then and there. In fact, there really isn't a reason he needed the LDB in the first place. He could have simply zapped Miraak on his own. That doesn't happen though. Instead he steals your kill and stabs Miraak through the heart almost exactly like the famous enantiomorph of Auriel, Trinimac, and Lorkhan.

It goes further than that, though.

We know that Hermaeus Mora "scrys the tides of fate" and time is very malleable for him. What if he set the events in Dragonborn up? It should be within his ability. Set up a Rebel in Miraak, a King in Dovahkiin, and make himself the Observer.

Is it possible that Hermaeus Mora is attempting to become a new Amaranth, or some other high-metaphysical power? Or perhaps I'm just crazy...

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adame
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:27 pm

And the Ash King, Wulfharth, hoary Ysmir, went and made peace with the Orcs in spite of his Nordic blood, and they brought many warriors but no wizards at all. Many Nords could not bring themselves to ally with their traditional enemies, even in the face of Red Mountain. They were close to desertion. Then Wulfharth said: "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" And they looked from the King to the God to the Devils and Orcs, and some knew, really knew, and they are the ones that stayed.

What we see in Dragonborn is a realm overthrowing it's prince.

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Connie Thomas
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:15 pm

Elaborate?

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Jade Muggeridge
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:37 am

Miraak who is Herma Mora is overthrown by Dragonborn who is Herma Mora... the realm is in both their heads and both their bloods. They are both Dragonborn, both Apocrypha, both the Woodland Man.

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Haley Merkley
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:15 pm

You mean, because Miraak's soul belongs to Apocrypha, so Mora become a Dragonborn?

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Ebou Suso
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:38 pm

Where does that come from? I haven't read anything that indicates that.

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SUck MYdIck
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:55 pm

If only I could understand that logic... It sounds interesting, and considering what we know of the Aka-Lorkhan schmozzle, it doesn't sound out of the ordinary. Having never played Dragonborn, however, I have no idea where you're getting that idea from (since I haven't seen it referred to here on the forum), nor can I testify to my opinion of its accuracy.

I'm mainly posting to point out something about HM and his collection of CHIM-related material, however. HM's job, as I understand it, is to collect forbidden knowledge. The thing is, though, that nothing about the job of "collecting" knowledge requires him to know that knowledge himself, or to understand it even if he does know it. While it's unlikely that there's anything in Apocrypha that he hasn't read himself, I wonder if he actually understands the material that has come into his hands. Remember that Lorkhan created Mundus in order to create beings with greater limits (mortals) than those that were already in existence (et'Ada, including all of the Daedra that have remained more or less in the states that they were in prior to Creation). The way I see it, it is unlikely that the Daedra could attain CHIM because they simply didn't have the right mindset, a mindset that Lorkhan purposely engineered Mundus to give to mortals. After all, Vivec learned the concept of CHIM from Molag Bal; like Bal, then, there's nothing stopping Mora from having heard of the concept, of knowing (in theory) what it is and means. But there's nothing that indicates that Molag Bal actually possesses CHIM; the fact that he hasn't used it to turn Mundus into his personal playground tells me that he probably doesn't have it, anyway. I can easily imagine that Mora is in a similar situation: He knows about CHIM, but does not actually have the ability to achieve it.

So I guess the answer to the title of the thread is "probably," and the answer to the actual first post is, "not likely." At least in my opinion, assuming that I read the OP right in the first place.

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Kat Ives
 
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Post » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:47 pm

The Dragonborn, first or last doesn't matter, is the Herma Mora. You asked me.

And you wonder why you don't see herma mor?

he's du king and I'm tha rebul that becomes the king, and HM is all up in ma hed, because he's me, DB, and DB's an apocryphal sort of character... Convenient not to see the logic, unless you want to isn't it? (Don't you see where you really are?)

I'm sorrt I had a really good night and I'm kinda saying too much without saying enough.

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Céline Rémy
 
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