I've made dozens of characters in Morrowind and Oblivion and I have only chosen a premade character once. All of the rest were custom classes I called adventurer. Once I discovered that the ready made classes didn't fit my style of play I stopped using them. Now I don't have to invent a class to play. Now the skills I use won't be tied to some system that doesn't work.

In Oblivion I had to choose skills that I didn't use so that I could get more than thirty odd levels, and I had to avoid using ability modifiers for the same reason. With a new system I hope that my style of play doesn't feel like I'm being punished for playing.

It is not like you walk around with a class name tatooed on your forehead. They could see based upon your visible gear and appearance what you choose to practice. I don't see why it has to be branded on you.

Plug-n-play, baby. Plug-n-play :clap:

I agree that "classes" are still in, now there will be a bigger diff than in past games between different builds or "classes". I recently started playing MW again. I know the game, I have played it 300 hours or so. I know about the TES games. Yet I still manage to pick some wrong skills and regretted it like 6 hours in, luckly Iam on pc, so I was able to use the console to fix things. If I can screw up picking stuff out, imagine a person new to the game, good riddance.

Like I said, you could say "I use bows most of the time, and occasionally a short sword. I'm also proficient in light armour and conjuration etc..." to your friend or NPC who just asked what your character does, but that is cumbersome. Is it really that bad and detrimental that I want a simple title? Of course I could arbitrarily assign any title of my choosing to my character, but that class would be subjective. If, to you, your character was a spellsword and you said to your friend "my character is a spellsword", what would that mean? That statement would basically be meaningless because there are no classes and therefore no definition of that class or any other in Skyrim. Is it so much to ask for to have a method of determining class based on what skills your used so that there is a universal standard of defining classes within Skyrim?

in RL, when people ask what it is you do, do you say "I put lettuce on buns, flip burgers, watch the fries..." or "I design helmholtz coils to be used in adaptive optics system arrays" ?? Of course not- if that was the reply they wanted they would ask for further explanation. There's a reason job title's exist.

In short the main reason for my wanting of classes is for there to be a universal method of defining classes within Skyrim. I believe this would make communication much easier

Or, you could tell him "I'm a warrior", instead of the NPC being omniscient and automatically knowing it because he just detects your "class", thus never even asking the question to begin with.

Yeah, that is my opinion too. I can manage without of course, but it is nice to have a class-name. I think that is what people will miss most.

I think that is just a personal limitation of you not being able to define yourself and doesn't really have anything to do with class functionality.

I am well aware you could tell him that, but there is no solid definition of a warrior in Skyrim so that statement would essentially be meaningless. Perhaps "warrior" has a fairly obvious definition, but what about more complex classes?

Just write it down on a paper, it will have as much relevance to the game as before...

Perhaps you could define your role in the world as you would have with a class system. Such as warrior or fighter, mage or wizard. or scout, archer, or rogue. You still do the same thing, just aren't shoe horned into a box that probably doesn't fit.

What do you mean? Of course I could define myself to myself, but what about defining myself to others, NPCs or people? That is the issue here. And that limitation would be imposed upon everyone, since no classes will be defined in Skyrim. As it is now, when you say "I am a Nightblade" you might as well say "I am a hururuauruuaruaur"

Hi!
I'm Dovakin, the DragonBorn DragonSlayer.

You're not making any sense. Of course there is a solid definition of a Warrior. Classes aren't defined by their meta-game stats, they are defined by the cultural realities of that universe. I'm sure Skyrim inhabitants don't have to carry around a character sheet and show it to their friends everytime they're asked what they do for a living. They simply answer the question.

Besides, if there is no definition of a warrior in Skyrim, then how exactly would the class name make a difference? You're being silly. And yes, we do have job titles IRL, but were not just doing a nine-to-five job in Skyrim, we're playing a role. And when you call yourself Doctor of Physics, it's not just a name you've picked from a list. You've actually done several years of education and work in specific areas.

What exactly makes you a warrior? What are you actually doing that makes you more of a warrior than a thief or a mage? You're saying that a class name describes you in any way - it doesn't. It's a word that by itself is meaningless. Only when you defined what a warrior is, does it become meaningful. You still need to answer what you're actually doing.

Classes are meta-game, they got nothing to do with roleplaying. You're mixing up words.

In case you've forgotten, one of the main points of Elder Scrolls is that the main quest is a relatively small part of the game and can be completely ignored if so wished

You obviously didn't get his point... so I think I will just leave this debate, myself. We're on two different planets.

Here is my planet: :user:


Here is your planet: bliviongate:

You're right in that the definitions of classes would be cultural in nature in game. Yes, I am talking about the "meta-game" class definitions, I guess I wasn't clear about that. But I still think the metagame definitions, which would be defined numerically based on skill distributions has value and relevance.

I personally like the idea. I think it will push players to simply play as they intend to without being subconsciously restricted to the confines of a certain critique they originally selected.

Its a great idea. I picked the wrong class in Oblivion, and it made trying to level up a lot less fun. Picking classes I had not played before (like a pure mage) was also difficult. The class of your character can still be there in your head, but I think class-less leveling is a much more fluid, natural system.

honestly I found the classes stupid, becuase I would chose skills that didnt go with my class just to level up
I think I will like the removal of them

Doing away with classes is one of the few desicions I can get behind 100%.. and I am a huge fan of roleplaying

A couple of points on classes.....

First, the premade classes in TES games are almost without exception terrible. They're so bad that one of the first pieces of advice that's often given to new players is to ignore them and make a custom class. As a matter of fact, they're so bad that a popular forum game for a while here was to challenge someone else to play a character that used (*gasp!*) a premade class. Oh no! Are you serious? I have to actually try to play a default crusader?!

However - much like some other arguments that crop up here fairly regularly, that doesn't mean that classes are bad in and of themselves - only that their execution was. It's entirely possible that there really is little to be gained from defining a class, but that argument is entirely separate from whatever ways Beth might've failed to do it well in the past.

That said, I don't see that I could miss them much. I don't think I've ever played a predefined class in any TES game. I guess if one happened to be identical to the build I came up with, I could've, but that never even happened.

However, there's still some sort of need, or desire at least, for something to define a character. I see that regularly on the Oblivion forum. With the few exceptions of well-known characters like Buffy, characters are pretty much always described by their players as "<name> the <race> <class>." And even the well known characters have a class, though it doesn't have to be mentioned as often - Buffy's a Mystic Archer, for instance. That's not just something that Acadian dreamt up to post on the forum - it says "Mystic Archer" on her stats. It's part of who she is. My Mindi is a Barbarina - again, that's not just a random appelation, but helps to describe who and what she is (sort of, in a punning way). I have a Dunmer named Maelyn who's a Courtesan, and very much so. My mage Tim is an Enchanter - it's not that he particularly specializes in enchanting - that one, along with his name, is a movie reference that amuses me. And so on. There's at least something positive to be said for the ability to hang a name on a description of a character.

That said though, I have a whole lot of characters who play a class called "Drifter." Drifter isn't a set build - it's just the name I use when i can't think of anything else.


.... not sure what my final point in all that is..... just putting stuff out there......

I liked classes, if mostly for the title. I like having that one word or couple of words that define the character concept I've gone with. As long as they involve formerly class associated themes and abilities within the perk system, I'll be fine with just that mod to write in a class name on my character sheet.