I mean it seems like Cyrodil just survived an invasion or a cataclysm, because it is littered with destroyed forts, tons of unsurfaced ruins and caves, and the only safe places are behind city walls, outside of them Cyrodil is crawling with monsters and bandits. It makes me wonder if something sinister happened within the last century or two of Cyrodil's history. Any thoughts?

Cyrodiil has had its share of conflicts that′s for sure, but time also destroys forts

wars have always marred the formation of countries, and time also takes its toll when places are abandoned.

I like this sort of detail very much, it gives rise to many background stories for all sort of characters.

I'm not complaining about the abundance of ruins, I'm only speculating. Most forts wouldn't just be abandoned without a reason, and it seems there are many destroyed forts throughout Cyrodil. But then again in the medieval days it was always dangerous outside of city walls but... the amount of forts is intriguing.

The Ayleid ruins date from before the First Empire, over 4000 years ago. The ruined forts would be First Empire, I believe, dating anywhere from about 1000 years old to nearly 4000.

This stuff is all in the Elder Scrolls lore, and a lot of it can be learned about by reading the books in the game.

My character is illiterate :/ so I might need to teach him how to read.

Well, here in the real word, there are tons of ancient Egyptian ruins, Mayan ruins, castles from the Middle Ages, and old forts and fortresses. Are we in a post apocalyptic era?

Basically, the world is safe structurally, even after the Oblivion crisis. There is a legal system, a ruling goverment system, there is order and (mostly) peace. The robbers, and bandits are a by product of society. They are there in every universe except a perfect one.

Cyrodil isn't mean to be perfect, but believable and realistic. It's perfectly believable that there will be poverty in this universe, and there were be bad people in this universe. There will also be poor people who happen to be bad as well, thus becoming robbers/looters/bandits/marauders/thieves or whatever.

There hasn't been any recent devastating wars prior to Oblivion. Uriel Septims reign was a relatively peaceful one. Except for that one incident..

But in real life there aren't as many ruins in one location as in Cyrodil. I think the presence of all these forts show how the importance the Imperials gave to military might.

The population of Cyodiil is very thin. There just doesn't seem to be enough people to rebuild forts, Kvatch, and perhaps restore the Ayleid ruins. The few people who live outside the cities are reduced to robbing to survive. I suspect there is a critical mass needed to move societies out of the survival mode and into having enough excess people to develop a curiosity about the arts, sciences and civic pride issues such as restorations.

There is another issue which the game makes clear for anyone who has read A.E. Van Vogh's book "Voyage of the Space Beagle'. The existence of magic has cause society to bypass the aggressive, cynical, questioning mind where research and exploration flourish and instead settle into a stable 'Fellehin' society which simply goes about their daily lives without questioning. Such societies are ripe for a fall when someone like Mankar Camoran comes along.

It appears that there have been many wars fought by and on Cyrodiil. Such as: The War of Succession, The Four Score War (but was centred around the Morrowind borders), The War of the Red Diamond, which were all major wars and good excuses to build forts and suchforth. As was said earlier, the Aylied Ruins were once cities of the Aylied race, but who were captured and enslaved by the Imperials, which eventually made the race, and cities die away. As were the forts, I can imagine small towns revolving around them, and being buried by war, no matter how big or small.
As for Kvatch, I remember reading somewhere it had been rebuilt and renamed, but I can't for the life of me find it.

That might be true, but it seems there are more bandits in Cyrodil than honest citizens. It also seems the most profitable business in Cyrodil is join the army or dungeon dive. Also the Cyrodillian cities seem pretty advanced, especially IC, though I agree with the fact that most people in Cyrodil seem intellectually stunted. And there would have to be a greater population atleast in the past for all those forts to have been built in the first place.

Actually the Shivering Isles seems more like a bastion for knowledge. There are many, many crazies, but it also contains many artists and scientists. Overall I think SI has better intellectual growth.

In my opinion the most concerning thing is the abundance of evil on the Imperial Isle itself. The sewers are infested (I mean atleast that shouldn't be overrun with goblins and vampires) monsters roam the isle just outside the city wall. Its no wonder that you rarely see people on the roads.

Seems like Cyrodil is stuck in a long, drawn out cataclysm. Probably why nothing is repaired, the work crews get there and then the next catastrophe hits and they get re-purposed. Besides, what would the bandits or marauders do if all the ruins had "closed for renovations" signs on them?

The IC is not a product of Imperial development. It is an Ayleid city reused by the current society.

The philosophical view of society I was referring to doesn't consider individuals but society as a whole and there can be isolated cases of individual brilliance in a decaying society. In fact, it is such individuals that can break a fellehin society and restart the engine of progress although it usualy involves a great deal of pain and suffering and a discarding of the secure settled life. Such philosophies are the backbone of groups that want to play god by re-engineering society. They are murderous and ruthless just as the New Dawn is, at it's core, bent on destruction.

Ayleid Ruins are just that. Ruins. There are Egyptian Ruins, Mayan ruins, Chinese ruins, etc. In our world, nearly every major civilization has left ruins from either war, natural disasters, or simply abandonment. In Oblivion, after the Ayleids lost the war all those years ago, their once great cities would've been destroyed by the rebel army or destroyed during battles and skirmishes. Then by natural erosion, the ruins would've been ripped apart by vines and plants growing into them without any maintenance. Finally, the bandits of Oblivion would've taken the underground ruins, which are good homes as they are naturally defended by traps so Imperial Legionary forces would stray away from them. Not to mention the easy food and armor as many unprepared adventurers would be killed very fast by the marauders or the traps.

Forts...well the Oblivion crisis would obviously make the Imperial Legion abandon the forts and instead garrison themselves inside the city or the minuscule forces, obviously from reassignment, would be overtaken by the huge bandit armies. One exception is Fort Sutch, which seems to be one of the more important forts as the Imperial Legion tries to close the gate. Failing, but still trying nonetheless. Another theory is that the forts were simply useless as Uriel's reign was a peacetime.

They're a reflection of a bygone era where Cyrodill/the Empire was much smaller and besieged on all sides by enemies, even within its own borders.

By the time of the events of Oblivion, the Empire is well established and most of the remaining operational forts are within established cities or in provinces like Morrowind or Valenwood.


A perfect modern day example would be the old abandoned castles and forts that litter Europe. It's something you don't see as much in other places in the world - North America for instance. That's because of the unique history of Europe. Those forts were built during times of conflict and uncertainty, but in today's relatively stable climate they're simply relics of the past.

The abandoned forts in Cyrodill are the same way. They used to be fully garrisoned at different periods in time, but up until the Oblivion invasion, Cyrodill was peaceful and stable and had no need for manned forts. Most of the soldiers stay in the cities, etc.





There's two theories about Sutch.

One is that it was originally meant to be a city or settlement in Oblivion but was left our and turned into an abandoned fort at the last moment. So the hidden quest to defend it is a leftover.


But I've thought up my own semi plausible explanation.

I'm assuming they're protecting that location not because of the fort but because it's a critical pathway for scouts to carry news between Chorrol and Anvil. For the Daedra to overrun and occupy that strategic location would cripple the ability for information and goods to travel quickly through an off road path. In times of war, protecting such routes is an important strategic element. So whether or not it's stated out loud, that seems logical to me and that's what I choose to believe.

What happenned was that a medium-size *meteor* blasted that area where the IC currently is.

the result was twofold, 1st loads of like ruins everywhere, and 2nd the rise of a mini-atlantis sort of city to the surface. that land was magical, granting the Emperor the gift of creating wine, bread and $eptim$ everyday + 100% immunity to magic, so folks decided "hi, emperor, here shall be the imperial city. start ruling us, pls" - or so tell us the ancient scrolls of Oxossis.

And this, boys and girls, is why I'm asking you all to say no to Skooma.

Fort Sutch seems out of the way, but can be strategically important to keeping Anvil safe, and since Anvil is probably the biggest trade center in Cyrodil and probably a place where reinforcements can come in would all make it important to protect.

A even more recent example on abandoned forts is world war 2 defences. Lots of them around, and with a few exceptions they are ruins, friend of me explored one of them and found some German helmets.

And yes changes in policy made the forts unnecessary, fewer soldiers in Cyrodill and they are based in towns where they also act as police.

And yes the dungeon density in the game is high, had been better with a larger map imho, but then other would complain about to much walking and empty land.

Agree about Sutch, however they chose the fort as base because it was defendable and was in a good location.

Wow you found german helmets! Did you keep them? Thats cool.

The background story of one of my characters refers to the last years of the establishment of the centralised power as 'civilising missions', where some of the Imperial Forces would actually raid some of the villages and smaller castles to do things not civilised at all . Her city now gone from the official maps and history of the Empire, she seeks her revenge ,etc...

Most of those forts would likely be from the Second Era, and that was a violent time for Cyrodiil. However, by the events of Oblivion, Cyrodiil had been a safe place for over 400 years, and therefore, it no longer required forts, so they were abandoned. However, and on a related matter towards a ruined (not buildings, just ruined, in general) Cyrodiil, Cyrodiil in Oblivion wwas definitely not at its prime. The various cities have become disunified and the politicianss have become corrupt and lazy. The Cyrodiilic empire had itself spread far too thin, was about to collapse (and did, after Oblivion's events), had a general lack of military power within it, and just lost its emperor, so Cyrodiil was internally ruined. If you were curious about these, as well, Ayleid ruins are ruins because the Ayleids were defeated and driven out of their home, while their empire was destroyed, by their former slaves, the Imperials. There was an Imperial uprising and the sadistic Ayleids were defeated while the Imperials went on to create their own empire. The Ayleid bit occured back in the First Era.

Not me a friend and yes he kept them, they was however very rusted.
Yes it was pretty cool but required luck as the place was usually locked up until some other breached the lock.

What was your friend's class?

Did he choose Luck as a favoured attribute? Were Security and Sneak among his major skills?

Was he a Breton?

My theory is that Cyrodiil is run by a bunch of whack jobs (Have you heard the conversations they have had w/ each other?) and the actually intelligent people have been shunned from society and have been forced to make groups of bandits and marauders. Of course not everyone who is exiled is sane. For example, the necromancers are in some sort of sick world of their own. By that, there are sane people within society, for example Mordryen Oreyn (Spelling?) is probably the most capable character I've seen in the game