I just finished the mission with Cass about getting proof that Alice McCafferty at Crimson Caravan and that Van Graff woman at Silver Rush were deliberately killing other caravans. I was really bothered that this turned out to be true, since Alice McCafferty seemed trustworthy overall, though a shrewd businesswoman obviously. The Van Graff chick, however, seems like she would totally be fine with murdering the competition. I resisted the temptation to just kill them all and instead went to Jackson at the Mojave Outpost. He took the evidence and Cass got the 'Calm' perk, which was nice. But a few days later I walk back into Silver Rush and everything is business as usual -- and worst part, that Baptiste guy pulls Cass aside and murders her! Good thing I was able to revert to my last Auto-Save.

I really like Cass as my companion but looks like we definitely have to avoid Silver Rush completely. Does anything ever happen to put them out of business or hurt them in any way? Just wondering -- thanks.

Beat the game and find out, its part of Cass's ending slide. I think you'll be happy with what happens to Alice and Gloria.

Wrong section.

What do you mean by put them out of business or hurt them? You mean kill them?
Oh, yeah and this is in the wrong section.

There is an (unintentional?) conflict between the Birds of a Feather quest (if it is still active / unfinished) and the Heartache By The Number quests. It is best to try to resolve Birds of A Feather first, I guess. Or better yet, avoid it completely.

Currently I cannot take Cass through the Silver Rush part of Freeside as since the end of Heartache By the Numbers even the Silver Rush Crier & outside Guard outside are hostile to her.

This is all post-patch, so I don't know if this was meant to happen or not, but suffice to say that in spite of going for the peaceful end of the Heartache quest, it looks like we are going to end up having the full-scale blood-bath with the Van Graff denizens unless we avoid that part of town forever after... :flamethrower:

I should add that before I reloaded an early save, during the pitched battle with the Van Graffs Cassidy yelled at me to say that I ought to have told her that we were going for the Vengeance option... and that she couldn't wait to do the same to McCafferty. So it looks like you can complete Cassidy's questline both ways simultaneously.

Actually, if you kill either leader, you can't do the peaceful way and thus the calm perk is replaced with vengeance

But the peaceful way is already done. She already has the Calm Perk.
I can easily enough avoid Crimson Caravans in the future, but avoiding Freeside will be a pain.

Thing is, I can't believe that it is intentional that the Silver Rush Crier & outside guard attack Cass on sight after the peaceful end of her quest. It breaks the quest. Maybe it is intentional, it just seems weird.

[edit] also, the battle with the Crier outside (not Van Graff inside) ended in the message: You have failed Birds of a Feather so its seems to be that quest that is triggered by the end of Hearthache

Sometimes: dead is better. I killed both of those peoples :/ murder is murder is murder, and if you let someone go without paying for it than you're only making the wasteland worse by encouraging them to keep killing, knowing that nothing bad will happen. 'oh, you mean 12 years from now the NCR is gonna do something bad to us every time we kill someone? Oh, Well.' they is dead.......the silver rush was abandoned, and the only people in the Crimson Caravan I killed were Alice and her personal assistants.

Don't knock the peaceful route until you see the result, turn in the evidence and Alice and Glory still receive justice. You punished two people big whoop. By turning in evidence you punish both organizations
If you like I'll PM you what happens to Gloria and Alice if you turn in the evidence to the NCR.



I just finished Heart Ache By the numbers and none of them are hostile.[nor has that EVER been a problem] My guess is you got caught stealing stealing the evidence but for some reason they didn't go hostile.
There is no conflict if you simply don't accept the job from Jean to find Cass. Hell even if you accept it he won't do anything unless you actually speak to him directly.

I can't prove that isn't true, but I was using a Stealthboy, I was on my own - Cass was cooling her heels at the Lucky 38 so she could not have been spotted either, and I had the [Hidden] message all the time, so that is confusing.



Yeah, that is what I thought. It's way too long ago to change now alas.

Still, them evil Van Graffs would never sell me any of their good stuff anyway!... so maybe they had this coming :wink_smile:

Never mind what I said, the Van Graffs are hostile to me, DAM I'm an energy weapons character and they were a chief source of ammo.

my current PC is into guns, now at 100. so i am going to sell out cass. my current humanoid is veronica. and i intend to keep her.

i guess if you are into energy weapons sell out cass. but if not then side with her.

I was able to complete heart ache by the number while have birds of a feather still open on the quest list. While getting the evidence at van graffs, I left Cass at the entrance and used a steath boy to sneak in and get the evidence. No one turned hostile to her at all. On a funnier note after leaving the safe room with the steath boy still active, one of the guards told me he was watching me even though he shouldn't have seen me at all.

You can complete Heartache by the Number peacefully and still finish Birds of a Feather afterward.

Once you get to the point in Heartache by the Number where you need to get the evidence from both Silver Rush and Crimson Caravan, park Cass outside whichever building you wish to enter and then go get the evidence. If you bring Cass inside the Silver Rush and Birds of a Feather is at or past the point where you report to Gloria after delivering the package, do not speak to Jean-Baptiste or Cass will be killed unless you intervene, and doing so will spark a firefight. Once you have both pieces of evidence you can then turn them in to Jackson at Mojave Outpost to complete Heartache by the Number and Cass will receive the Calm Heart perk. NOTE: unless your game glitches, J-B will not shoot Cass until/unless you talk to him at the proper point in the quest, so one method to keep her safe would be to do Birds up to the point of delivering the package, then complete Heartache prior to progressing Birds any further. You can still buy form Gloria in the interim, inventory refreshes permitting.

Both Crimson Caravan and Silver Rush will remain open for business for the remaining duration of that play-through, so you will still be able to finish Birds of a Feather as well as You Can Depend on Me and Pressing Matters, assuming the latter two have not already been finished.

Fwiw it would make sense if both places were shut down immediately since you did rat out their leadership, however there would likely be no end of complaints about losing two big vendors so it's probably just as well that the final resolution occurs during the ending slides.

EDIT: here's a tip for the Silver Rush part of obtaining the evidence- Gloria has a key for the door in her possession which can be easily stolen without a Stealth boy or much Sneak skill, and using it on the door does not cause an alarm if they see you doing so since you're not actually picking the lock. I typically swipe the key when I go back into the Silver Rush after pulling door guard duty, since that way I have an auto-save immediately prior to the attempt in case it fails.

NO you can't as of patch 1.02 turning in the evidence makes the Van Graff's hostile

Yeah, they changed a few things in the patch. My guess is that the intent was for the player to be able to do either Birds of a Feather or Heartache By The Number, but not both, at least not in the same playthrough. Which makes perfect sense; it fits with Obsidian's desire to make actions have consequences. If the Van Graffs found out you and Cass had turned them in, they would definitely get hostile. Though it would help the player understand if Cass said something like, "We better watch our step around the Van Graffs - they're not going to be happy about this if word gets out." Or if the Van Graffs said something like, "Hey, it's the guy who ratted us out! Kill him!" before attacking.

Why McLafferty doesn't become hostile is an open question, but I guess she's less of a gangster than the Van Graffs. Or maybe she doesn't have as good sources in the NCR to tell her who turned her in. The Van Graffs were working on that whole NCR/Legion double-cross, so maybe when you turn in the evidence, the whole deal falls through because the NCR refuses to work with them any more.

Don

Hmmm, I haven't tried that combination since the patch but I know that trick worked previously. Since I end up hiring Cass anyway after buying her caravan company I can always try again and see what happens. It does make sense that the Van Graffs would go hostile though.