Ride that suffering, cowboy!

As a few others pointed out, the Enclave are satirical. They were made to bring up a point of a government whose trust and faith in their people is so gone that they simply chose to eradicate them.

I love the Enclave. I just wish they were one of the Factions in New Vegas. But way off topic here does anyone know were I can get some great Enclave Fan Art?

They remind me of my wood shop teacher.

I am an enclave suporter. And no they arent nazis. Look at fallout 3 there is a schism.

Autumn's enclave.

Autumns enclave was pretty different the Edens, Autumn wanted to activate the purifier, then use the water to control the wasteland and rebuild pre war America.
He was pretty much like the BoS in fallout were, only considered evil because he was a "bad" guy and the BoS were "good". So really Bethesda [censored] up the writing bi time, when 2 people pretty much the same but one group is evil one is a [censored] saint.
Now unlike the BoS, the enclave actually had the means to rebuild, and not scavenge, they were better trained, more coordinated, more resources And only lost because the story forces you to kill enclave while support the BoS, they are simply better at rebuilding, the only progress the BoS had was the tech salvaged from enclave, and the purifier (which wasnt even thier work...)

And Autumn had fought against Eden in order to stop the genocidal plan.
He kills you after activiating the purifer because you are a threat. Killing you stops you taking the FEV frm eden and poisoning the water.
He rebels against eden and tries to take control, thats the fighting at the end, its autumn v eden, and you can see Eden is pretty much alone in his plan as its humans v robots Eden controls.

You can also see the enclave isnt all "grr not one of us kill it with fire" play BS and you find a guy whos life they saved, they cleaned him up, healed him and gave him a job... He then later stabs them al in the back by helping you. Nice guy

Eden's enclave/original enclave.
Edens enclave are pretty much just wanting to wipe the slate clean, and start again. I can see why, it would kill off raiders, mutated animal, feral ghouls the supermutants, you know things that hinder them rebuilding, and with them gone it makes starting again easier, even though its pretty damn radical and genocide.

I know people will say "the enclave is dead let it go" when I bring this up, but I want to see them again. Especially after 3 where they were raiders in PA, lets face it, the only interction was violence, no matter what even helping them al the time., [censored] even the paradise falls slavers were more fleshed out and had more interaction.
Also we see in the remenants in NV an with Autumn in 3, the enclave is changing, and isnt what lots of people see it as. I think it would be great if we got to see ho it changed and evolved, looked further at the way it is spliting and people are abandoning what the original idea was and becoming more human. Besides they are awesome, an if the BoS can be made [censored] saints in ower armour then the enlave can atleast be made a more human faction.

Thats the problem with the BOS in East Coast, they are all saints, they must be portrayed like Knight Templars, not White Knigths , And the Enclave arent evil people, is like more of a justified evil, restoring the United States by any means necessary,

Look, whilst Bethseda may have stumbled across something interesting with the whole Enclave civil war, what actually happened. There is no Eden/Autumnist Enclave, Autumn simply commanded his troops to attack you because the President went behind his back with the whole FEV thing, lets not forget the Enclave "Genetic Compliancy Camps" were wastelanders were svckered in with pure water if they completed a little test, instead they were probably told to wait before being burned alive! There are no Enclave soldiers fighting each other, apartently the chain of command is none existant because Autumn just orders them to ignore the President, whilst you can claim it's because they don't respect his authority I call bad writing, was there nobody in the evil Enclave that wanted to posion them?

Please refer to my previous comment (not because I am counter-pointing you but because I can't be bothered to type it again), the wastelanders probably are genetically inferior, I've seen some of those horrific post Chernobyl pictures, not nice. Maybe in a less interactive medium, maybe a book or something some of this would be better touched on. The Enclave from their standpoint are justified in there objectives. They seek to rebuild not control. Before F3 they were democratic and had a complex inferstructure.

The Eastern BoS has a reason for being white knights, and the game explains it. They didnt just go 'THE BOS IS OBVIOUSLY THE GOOD GUY!!!!' when they made F3

But the Enclave has no real justification for being so clearly 'generic baddie'

I agree, people seem to forget that the game goes out of its way to explain that Lyon's "Brotherhood of Steel" is nothing like whats on the west coast. I mean, does everyone forget about the Outcasts? They are the true Brotherhood and its explained as such.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the East Coast for being goody goodies and just generally dumb (tactically) but I don't hate them because Bethesda "messed up" the Brotherhood of Steel.

On topic though, I agree with The Enclave when he says that their really isn't a "Eden" Enclave and a "Autumn" Enclave. What I also find interesting is that if you are able to convince Autumn to just leave at the end, He professes loyalty for Eden in protest and says that the "chain of command must be upheld."

I've remembered some pretty obscure quotes in my time but why not that one! See, Autumn vs. Eden = Bad Writing. Chain of Command... HA! As for the BoS becoming pansies I have no real problem with, after seeing the devestation in the Pitt, what's so wrong with Lyon's seeing that his enitre society has it's head up it's own [censored] when it could help so much? Isn't that like Veronica's entire compainion quest?

Yep I agree with you. I distinctly remember thinking "wait......didn't you just IGNORE the chain of command by DISOBEYING a direct order from the President of the United States? I found it strange that you had to convince Autumn to leave Eden again (if you wanted him to live).. :huh:

Just one more reason that I wish that another game or DLC would feature the Enclave (not in any major "OMG THE ENCLAVE"S BACKKK!!! CHARRRGE!" way but just help to clarify some things and prehaps give us a figurative (or maybe literal) "State of the Enclave Address" and just give more detail about whats going on with what remains of them on the East Coast, and elsewhere (and of course give an option to help them). :yes:

Isn't the real chain of command issue how an AI ended up in the presidential line of succession in the first place?

Pretty sure that's not legal.

Another example of ridiculousness, I suppose, by "advisor to the President," they ment that Eden was a member of Richardson's Cabinet.

Yeah it was kinda odd the Enclave were taking orders from a computer. Still if they had voted for it then I guess it makes some sense.

Apartently they didn't know he was a computer... :banghead:

:laugh: Oh Bethesda why must you make us come up with stuff like this?

Really? thats a big plot hole. Guess they never heard of impeachment.

ahhh I was waiting for someone to ask that so prepare to debate my friend!! :toughninja:

Truth is, I've questioned and reasoned with that myself several times and the answer that I have come up with (and stuck by) is yes, Eden is the rightful President. WHY?? (you may ask) how can Eden an AI be President? How can he be President when he wasn't really elected??

Well, there's a little thing called COG (Continutity of Goverment) which authorizes President Eden to take command of the U.S. (He actually states this himself I believe). COG was created by the United States government in order to gaurantee that someone is left in charge of the United States WHO IS NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER (caps because this is very important, civilian control of the armed forces after all). This is the official order of presidential succession for the current COG plans.

Office Current Officer
- President of the United States
1 Vice President of the United States
2 Speaker of the House
3 President pro tempore of the Senate
4 Secretary of State
5 Secretary of the Treasury
6 Secretary of Defense
7 Attorney General
8 Secretary of the Interior
9 Secretary of Agriculture
10 Secretary of Commerce
11 Secretary of Labor
12 Secretary of Health and Human Services
13 Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
14 Secretary of Transportation
15 Secretary of Energy
16 Secretary of Education
17 Secretary of Veterans
18 Secretary of Homeland Security

Now since Eden was specifically created to serve as a Presidential advisor and be a stand-in-President in case the line was broken, I would imagine he is officially number 19. Now I would guess that all of 1-18 were dead come the end of Fallout 2 and that just left military commanders and any of their families. Meaning Eden is indeed "next in line" for the Presidents seat because he is not only part of the COG plans, but also one of the only competent "civilian" leaders still left in control. He was literally made to do this.

Keep in mind that in case of a national emergency in real life (i.e. much of the United States High Command was wiped out) the President wouldn't be "elected" he would be "made." President Eden is actually President.

and thats my rant.

Edit: Also anyone who says that "Autumn should be President" clearly doesn't understand the concept of civilian control of the government (if you don't know i'd be happy to explain to the best of my knowledge).

Or the fact that there were no votes for 30 years, and nobody saw the President at all. I'm mean jesus christ...

I was never saying he had to be elected and the COG you're referring to is just another word for the line of succession I mentioned. The troubles are twofold. One why would anyone make an AI an official member of the government? Like the Enclave said I guess Eden was a member of the cabinet. He obviously couldn't be a member of Congress. Why on earth would you put a computer program in your cabinet? While I guess we can assume that is what happened I feel it's pretty obvious how ridiculous this is.

The second problem that overrides both is how can an AI be a citizen of the United States? Pretty sure citizenship is a requirement for the Presidency. I just don't see how a computer program can legally be the President of the USA.

I did similar research for my RP character, we can assume I think that some, if not most, of those positions were unfilled and they aren't needed. We can assume that Eden was Acting President during a national emergency after the Oil Rig (why are we doing the developers work?) but not for 30 years and not without anyone knowing, pure bull [censored].

Hang on, Eden gained sentience himself, he was just a ZAX unit for Raven Rock. How the [censored] could he be Presidential Advisor? Surely they had a ZAX on the Rig?

because frankly, its a good idea. Are you saying that Eden is not smart? He is a computer, he's the definition of intelligent. And he is also not officially a member of the Government, he is simply the only one left who can still claim to be a part of COG. (COG also is just not about presidential succession, it is also about having plans to secure those indiviuals and the future security of the government.)

Does anyone forget the thrashing the Enclave took in Fallout 2? It appears that there was only military troops left after that debacle. Eden is the next logical choice if one follows the civilian control policy. The United States was in dire need and desperatly required a leader, and Eden filled that role (Eden would absolutely not have become President had the line not been broken till him).

Edit: for 30 years or however long is a reasonable time for a President (and especially a strong National Government Enclave President) to declare emergency powers in case of an extreme national emergency (Oil Rig).

My mind is made up on this and im sure others are as well so they're just may be no point in arguing (and I'd rather not argue with Enclave brethern at that :foodndrink: ). But as I see it, Eden is the rightful President.

Edit 2: Was there hinting of a ZAX in Fallout 2 though? If I understand it correctly they were really really rare computers/AI.

From what I got form FO3 Eden came to "life" after the Rig went Boom!. New Vegas says the diehards (my own words) followed an Enclave signal East. So "diehards" went east found Raven Rock and let Eden be their president. Then somehow the Enclave mutiplied like Rabbits and got some new crap PA.

Last part makes sense if you go by what New Vegas said. Only the "diehard" Enclave went East and chances are they would over look Eden being a Machine.

Ahem... Styles, Autumn's "chain of command", just handing power to a rouge machine doesn't factor into that.