Yep exactly, I would. and added to that I'm postive that Eden would have been deactivated or resigned OR allowed a free election to occur had a proper civilian leadership been re-established. But Eden was needed to allow them to do that.

How is it a good idea? He's a machine. You can certainly use him and listen to his advice but there is no reason on earth to make him a member of the cabinet. It'd be like me enlisting the computer I was working on the last time I was downrange. It just makes Richardson's Enclave sound like a complete bunch of morons.

We know there were at least some civilians left because Eden's father is mentioned as being a civilian. As a citizen of the United States he has far more legal authority to be President than Eden.

Wait my bad it only says Autumn's father was a high-ranking scientist so he could've still been a member of the military. Eden still has absolutely no legal authority to be President regardless.

I can understand your standpoint Okie I really can (and you too The Enclave) but my whole point here is that the Enclave (and Eden) is following proper United States Government protocol regarding Presidential Succession and the Chain of command. Eden is part of the chain of command because he is part of COG. keep in mind, the Enclave is sort of crazy about following the ideas of American democracy and pre-war traditions (i.e civilian control). The reason Autumn senior didn't become President though was that he was not part of the Presidential succession. Besides From what I can see, there really is no "civilian" scientists in Fallout 3 (maybe in Fallout 2 but certainly not 3), it seems that they're more a division of the army than anything and CIVILIAN control of armed forces must be upheld. I cannot stress this point enough because it is exactly what an extremely patrotic and nationalistic Enclave would follow to the letter. Even if it meant following a "robo" President.

But it's not upholding the finest traditions of America to make someone who isn't a citizen, or even human, President of the USA. If upholding the traditions of America was so important to them the highest ranking officer should've resigned his commission and become President. Hell they could've even had a proper election if they really cared.

Eden is not a civilian. He is not an American citizen. He is not even human. He has absolutely no legal authority to be President.

Scientists we saw in Fallout 2 were US Army, the United States Chemical Corps, headed by Lt. Colonel Charles Curling. So what your saying is that Eden is in charge because there are no civilians left, just the Army?

EDIT: Isn't the President Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces?

EDIT II: I agree with Okie, Eden gained sentience, he's a computer and has no right to be a US Citizen, let alone a Presidential Advisor. Before he was alive he was a number crunching machine, surely one was on the Oil Rig, how does a ZAX get to be Secretary of whatever?

I am not saying it makes total sense but enough sense. Fallout 3 is pretty sketchy on details. I guess that comes from "well just have the Enclave and BoS and mash the stories of FO1 and FO2 together." With that kinda writing style details arn't importaint. So as fans we have to try to make sense.

Also it was Autumns's father that handed control over to Eden. The Autumn in FO3 is the son and he was raised with Eden being president, was he not? The Enclave that went East being diehards and not willing to give up the fight as so many others did they would be more willing to let a machine that says it was built by pre-war Enclave as their leader. Eden gained alot of power and became hard to remove from power.

All will be explained in Fallout 4 methinks... and then all the plotholes in Fallout 4 will be explained in Fallout 5, and so on.

In some ways yes. That and he is part of COG.



Yes. That is the point, the President of the United States cannot be an active service member/general because that would give them complete and utter control of the Armed forces (doesn't mean much in the Enclave but thats the beauty of the Irony).

The President must be a civilian because there must be a civilian commander in chief, to sum it up.



Prehaps he doesn't have a right to be a real-life American citizen. That much we can agree on. But in the world of Fallout? Who are we to say a computer can't be an advisor/citizen?

Keep in mind, Eden was created to serve as an ABSOLUTE last resort President. When all viable options (that follow succession Protocols) are gone, and that happened with Fallout 2.

Edit: Im not asking you all to like him or follow him to your deaths (hell we Americans fight over our presidents all the time) but I would ask you to (grudingly) at least admit there is some cause for his legitimacy as President.

Fallout 3 sketchy on details? Come on now :tongue:

I think we could all argue for days about this, the 30 years in between are too hazy, I believe we already had a discussion about what you and I thought about Navarro and such. I don't know if he was raised with it? Autumn was born in 2222 meaning he must have been 25 or something.

Prehaps and I would agree that we could flesh this out for days if we wanted to (I liked this debate though). Besides it doesn't really matter, I wouldn't imagine that they could bring Eden back at this point ( since he's sadly buried with whats left of Raven Rock) so what we really need to debate is who should become the next President of the Enclave.

PARTY CAUCUS!!!

Edit: one last point about Okie's last post. Thats the Irony in the situtation. :tongue:

I don't think we know enough about Eden, he was an AI probably designed to serve whoever use Raven Rock who gained sentience, if he was on the Cabinet it must have happened after he became alive, which wasn't intentional. I can see why they might have him as a member but as what function? We have no idea of the state of the US inferstructure on the Rig, the room on the Rig has 9 seats one for the President, can confirm Vice President, Tom Murray was Head of Atomic Energy Commission (a new post-war Enclave thing) could this be a continuation of the Department of Energy?

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/9/97/Fo2_Oil_Rig_Presidential_Quarters.png

I agree with the points I highlighted. (I would also argue though that Eden was also designed as part of COG)

As for the rest. I'm not really sure. I can't answer why Richardson allowed an AI into his advisor circle. What I can answer though, is that by the end of Fallout 2, the line of succession has been obliterated, all the way down to Eden, who takes rightful command, if anything this shows how badly the Enclave was beaten in Fallout 2. They now have to rely on an AI to be their President (I would follow him despite the fact that he's an AI but meh...)

I personally think that Enclave has his evil methods justificated, I mean, they just want to restore the old glorious day of the United States

Along with the Master, I think that they are evil with standards,(But the Master can be more of a extremist with well intentions)

Caesar fits too, Racist, sixist, Crucificx people, but well, at least they do not allow the use of chems and alcohol

A toast to that good sir! :foodndrink:

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcQvkCNcE0 starts playing as the toast is made*

someone said the uniforms looked like confederate uniforms wen we are talking about evil factions? the confederacy wasn't evil, they were not fighting for slavery they were fighting for state and individual rights and the Union's treatments of African Americans was just as bad only in a different way.

No one said the confederacy was evil. Someone just mentioned that the officer uniforms reminded them of uniforms from the Confederacy and uniforms in general from the civil war.

Besides it doesn't matter because the Enclave isn't "evil". So that point is moot.

the enclave attempts to brain wash masses and kill all in their way, i believe that constitutes as evil

Maybe in your view. The Enclave does what needs to be done (they don't really brainwash, its called propaganda and there are many nations that have used it and have not been considered "evil"). In any case I truly believe that the Enclave's goals constitute the best future for a restoration of the old America, an end to the horrors of the wastes.

Evil is in the eye of the beholder and to illustrate this I will go with a great quote from a member of the Enclave:

"Back then, it was war. If we'd been on the winning side, I'd be called a hero."

The FalloutVerse is all grey moriality, most of the faction can be considered good and evil at the same time depending on how do you see them

I can even say that the Raiders just attack for survival

there is a point where it turns from simply propaganda to fascism and brainwashing. i love America and have very Conservative views and i hate the enclave and their view of old America, a place that none of them truly remember and that their leaders use to get people to blindly follow them by lying about what it was like.

Thats your opinion though and while I recognize it, I don't agree with it. I simply believe that in the face of a nuclear apocalypse, the Enclave is doing whats necessary.

In summary,

God Bless the Enclave

yes, following a leader who tells you about something he never experienced and carving a path through everyone who disagrees with you isnt evil at all. evil is not killing, evil is lying to those who help you and abusing human rights

There are no Human rights in the Wasteland. Why don't people understand that? Only areas like NCR have laws and human rights. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

human rights are not given by law or man, they are endowed by their Creator, and it doesnt matter if you believe in God or not, someones creator is just the miracle of life if you dont. what some manipulative leader writes on a paper doesnt matter.