From my time on the Forum I have noticed what I feel are the two bigest problems causing the split and they are:

1) Older fans of fallout don't like the writing of Fallout 3.

2) Fallout 3 fans are disappointed with the level of exploration in New Vegas.

Simple fix. Fallout 4 should have way better writing on the level of New Vegas and the exploration of Fallout 3.

Everything else like atmosphere can be met in the middle. If Fallout 4 is to be in the East, just have a working economy, plants and farming. Old school fans are not mad that Fallout 3 is not as advanced as Fallout 2. They are mad that it had not advanced at all, after 200 years. (By this I mean the setting)

If only Beth could "rent" Obsidian's writers for the next Fallout.

I'd say Bethesda fans. That is, after all, the most well know part of the trick of their pony

As a side note regarding exploration; according to Obsidian, New Vegas is as big as Fallout 3, and supposedly Fallout 3 is only a tiny bit smaller than Oblivion, but i just can't believe New Vegas is anywhere near as big as Oblivion. Maybe because of the more easily navigable terrain? Or the fact that it is empty? :shrug:

Well, I doubt this, a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBase is a common syndrome. People have the tendency to react http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuinedFOREVER to http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItsvcks.

FO4 will be made by bethesda themselves, i'm sure they'll keep the parts they like that obsidian did, all the extra weapons and some of the cool perks like jury rigging, but as far the core experience of their games, their signature in their games is exploration, fun enemies to fight, they sure aren't gonna abandon how they make their games to make some bethesda bashers happy. and the CW wasteland setting is like 1000 times better than that boring desxert in new vegas, thats like the worst place for a game, it might as well been at the north pole, bethesda is good at making cities and rural areas, none of this desert nonsense, nothing going on in a desert, it was too lifeless, not dynamic enough, the colors were nice, thats all though.

New Reno > Citadel (Mass Effect)> Imperial City > D.C.

All I have to say.

I do agree that compromise between the two sets of fans would be the way forward. Allowing Bethesda to actually work with the fans in order to make a game that caters to ALL fans of the series.

Unfortunately I don't believe this is possable because of a few (and it is only a few, I'm sure most of you know who I'm talking about) rabid fans on both sides of the argument. If these few would just leave a conversation alone, just once, then I feel that the others left would be able to discuss the topic rationally and maybe even help come up with an idea that everyone (well everyone except the rabid fans) can get behind and be happy with.

Instead I believe that we will have the same old faces churning out the same tired old arguments and turning any attempt at intelligent conversation into another VS thread. Like they are doing to this one. :sadvaultboy:

I'm sorry what? West started this one so don't even point fingers.

Edit: d'oh I should've read that closer...

Indeed, there few people on both sides who overreact to every criticism and start the never ending debate. But the worst ones no longer seem to be active :celebration:

Huh, wha? Must have fallen asleep. Funny, I thought I heard the self destruct again, must be another scribe prank again, i swear they don't know what to do with themselves half the time. :rolleyes:

Anyway, this report..." starts typing" I think regardless of what is done, and to take a quote to describe LV as a shining "Jewel of the Desert" and describe that as Fallout 4 when it is done, or describe NV or FO3 and you will have what was just said above. I for one am glad as well, I do not have to drag Oh Baby out of my Footlocker anymore, i prefer talking with a cool head and calm demeanor. Now back to my report.....

It bothers me to some extent, but the TES-split (Morrowind vs Oblivion) botheres me much m ore. Probably because I'm a much bigger TES-fan than a Fallout-fan. Having that said, I don't think those kind of splits are unique at all. I've been active or been reading up on several game series/MMOs forums online, and all of them includes people ranting about - usually - the newest game or game series, and how absolutely horrible it is and that it will ruin the game series forever. It's nothing new.

Like put up a group of fans to create a concept to please both groups, and then plea to Beth that they'll look at it and take some notes at least from the principle of the compromise?

I don't see why anyone would be against it, even the so called "rabid" fans, if it would have even a slightest possibility of affecting the future. I mean, a well done compromise is everything the fans of the originals (yours truly included) can hope for, while fans of Beth and FO3 can rest assured they'll get a solid Beth game even if they don't like everything about it.

Yes, exactly this. Otherwise, unfortunately I think it will be the fans of the older games that will lose out. If there was a united group petitioning for some of the things that made the old games great to be bought back, while keeping the best aspects of the new, Beth may listen.

But while all the squabbling is going on, they'll ignore it and churn out another "Oblivion with guns" as some folks phrase it.

The only things Fallout 3 actually did wrong were

1 The environment (no rebuilding, no farming, no societies etc and it's been 200 years since the bombs). Also, DC took up too much map space and tehre was rubble everywhere.

2 Railroading the player into helping the BOS, IMO these days an RPG should have several endings (except maybe them Japanese RPGs that ain't RPGs since they lack character development, moral choices etc.)

3 Spamming Vaults, valuable Vault numbers were used for absolutely no reason at all, in most cases some other form of fallout shelter could suffice, maybe government (or Enclave) owned for their own politicians can have a GECK (New Vegas did the same thing, Vault 3 was a complete waste)

4 The GECK has to be reduced from a portable world editor to a kit with seeds of local crops, and a collection of schematics showing people how to farm, hold cattle, make clothes/armor/equipment, construct http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windpump, either to drill up water or to generate power (both electrical en mechanical).

Beth did a great job with the Oblivion map, with the town nicely spread out, none of them too large and some farming in between them. It could work for Fallout as well, although obviously the structures would look different.

Nicely misquoted Okie ... I assume you might be referring to me.

Let me refresh it:-------

I assume that when they go back to Oblivion they say to themselves " this is just like Fallout3, but with mediaeval weapons, magic, casting spells, picking flowers and making alchemic potions, becoming wizards, fighting creatures from outer planes, having magic gates opening into those outer planes, which you pass through and fight creatures in those outer planes, and the lush green landscape and rivers, complex dungeons, etceteras " ... "but they both games have inventories, maps and quests" (yeah, and a hell of a lot different) ......

There you go ... and note the word "etceteras", I couldn't be arsed to go through every different detail, but in the meantime have an Oblivion horse , have a cave, have a zoomed in dialogue.
Oh and ... have a nice day.

I think there are enough differences between the two games for anyone when playing Fallout3 with more than half a mind , not to confuse it with the other game Oblivion.......

... But that I fear is the problem with players who see "Fallout3" as being the other game "Oblivion" .... the missing other half.

The character "you the player" is a child in the sequel Fallout3 which (according to you) is 34 years after/following Fallout2.

The character child (player in Fallout3) will have little in common with Fallout2 (34 years earlier)... but the Fallout3 is in keeping with the Fallout2 scenario prequel.

NOW, History and mathematics lesson.

Fallout takes place in 2161
Fallout Two takes place 2241 (80 years later) and the Chosen One, Vault Dwellers grand kid is the player.
Therefore the Vault Dwellers grand kid in Fallout2 will have less in common with Fallout1 (80 years earlier) than the child player of Fallout3 having only a 34 year time-gap with Fallout2

You are saying that Fallout2 was worse in terms of being a sequel to Fallout1, but Fallout3 is a closer sequel to Fallout2.

Good that we all agree that Fallout3 is a great Fallout sequel.

Only slightly altered inventory screen between Oblivion and Fallout3, hmm, I can see that is a great problem, whatever next!

How did you get on with the Alchemy Inventory, making potions from flowers screen, I found it "a dream to use".

Fallout3 uses Skill Levels, your 50 lock-picks above is up the creek.

Game mechanics, game-structure common a base for most games yeah it's there, and changed a bit from Fallout2 taking-turns-combat into real-time-combat and a more real role-play.

Yes, when I play Fallout3 it has that pure Fallout to me.

The game has that exquisite balance between all aspects of game-play that makes the game a true winner, and all in the Fallout sequel style.

Well, maybe someone should make an initiative, nothing happens by itself. People have made countless suggestions towards the "compromise", but the "spec./sugg." -thread doesn't seem to gather much discussion, and even less of attempts in merging what is considered good.



First you miscount and then pose to offer a lesson in mathematics. :thumbsup:
And... What are you even talking about? What do the timegaps have to do with anything?

I'm not sure what I misquoted since I didn't quote anything.



I noted it the first time. I just found it hilarious and significant that the entire litany of things you bothered listing are purely cosmetic differences brought about by the fact that one is set in a post apocalyptic wasteland and the other in a medieval fantasy world. It's like claiming there are vast differences between Battlefield 1942 and http://www.bfpirates.com/?Page=About because in one you are a pirate in the 17th century Caribbean and in the other you're fighting in WWII.



Wow. A horse and zoomed in dialogue are your grand examples for the deep differences between Oblivion and Fallout 3? You really just keep adding more and more support for the "Oblivion with Guns" description. I'm not sure what you meant by cave. There were plenty of caves in Fallout 3. In fact the caves in Fallout 3 looked a whole lot like the ones in Oblivion to me.

Oblivion:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaMBv_qMQh-iEI3x0cC5aasvi-ML7wkw-hv1-aMOTupy6SwiMBZA&t=1
Fallout 3:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYjUdvgJ8lP5BeGppshkLd7aXMCx0dLuUa-6KR6tuS4Vs5IWMI&t=1



Indeed. It certainly takes an extraordinary amount of intellectual capacity to grasp how Fallout 3's lack of horses differentiates it so clearly and decisively from Oblivion. You go get em champ.

It changed completely you mean from the originals.

Wait are you denying that you get that message in FO3, or that skill benchmarks didn't come from oblivion? last I checked in Fallout 1 and 2 I could try anything with any skill. I didn't have to gain special abilities for every 25 points I put into it.

If you hate fallout so much that you can't stand, it's gameplay, storytelling style, or mechanics why do you even like fallout? Fallout 3 did basically just that. It's it like biting into an apple and saying mmm this reminds me a an orange! Fallout 3 share pretty much every "game mechanics, and game-structure" as you put it to Oblivion. There was no " role play" in FO3 unless you mean the LARP style of role play. Mostly since you where force down one path, and only really had one option to do everything.

Also lolz at your "balance" it wasn't balanced at all. Especially after BS, in any aspect. Unless you call having 10's and 100's in everything "balanced". Your the one that seems to be "half blind" as you put it because you turn a blind eye to everything that is similar or outright carried over from Oblivion. Aside from some lore fragments point to one thing it shares with the originals Gameplay wise. I just want to see if you can do it.


EDIT:

Lolz Okie nicely done!

Bulls*** Fallout 3 is a good sequel to Fallout 2. It had absolutely nothing to do with neither Fallout 1 or 2. It's not even California. It's almost 3000 [censored] miles away from California. Hell, it doesn't even bother making a reference to either Fallout 1 or 2 besides the Lost Hills bunker and Harold. Neither of those make a reference to what the Chosen One or the Vault Dweller did.

"finishes his report" There! Took long enough, now as i grab my Helmet and Gauss Rifle and head out, i will state again, I am not going to get into this VS war anymore, I have my own opinion, i have said it many times, and it is not worth getting flamed over and over for it, I'm just going out, see what trouble i can clear up, maybe if i am lucky blow some of those creepy smiles off of those Reaver's faces, and any good advice i can add, i will. Oh i better take some Rad-away, i heard about a supply of Salisbury Steaks out there, nasty, but hey, it's food..... :rolleyes:

Opinions count when it comes to game continuity in story, lore, mechanics and design? ([edit] guess I can scrap that one since that does concern opinion.)

Well, Bethesda seems to have taken some of the critisism of Oblivion into account when designing Skyrim, so there's hope for you classic fans yet

Yeah I read something about factions playing a role and then something about that we can influence towns and cities with our actions. (Good and evil paths? Choices?)
Hopefully Skyrim will reflect a little on how we can expect FO4 to be like. (As long as it isn't a Skyrim clone completely that is. )