Fallout is pretty firmly sci-fi. certainly not HARD sci-fi, but still sci-fi.

also yeah TES is high fantasy but not for the reasons you think it is.

also is it just me or did NOBODY SAY ANYWHERE THAT YOU COULDN'T MOVE WHILE SHOOTING. literally the only thing related to movement in that whole hub update was "backpedaling isn't broken anymore".

also you couldn't run while shooting in Oblivion either - you could only walk. it's very likely going to be the same idea this time, but your accuracy suffers and you move a bit slower than normal.

also i think you people are confusing "legitimate tactic" with "exploiting a broken system, then getting upset that they're fixing it this time".

Again, look up the definition. If your talking about "high fantasy has to have a big plot" argument, then I agree. That was the old definition. Fallout is Sci Fi, but its also low fantasy.

Are we sure you cannot move at all while aiming? I mean, I dont care if this is true because its more realistic, but, I think it might just make you move slower.



At an archery range I tried to shoot a bow while running sideways--- you can do it, but its really hard to hit anything.

I think there will just be a movement penalty, hopefully with some perks to offset it.

If this absurd rumor is true then it still won't be an issue: bow damage is increased significantly. Having to make pincushions of your enemies while you run backwards really doesn't look right in the game nor does it fit real/fantasy life. On top of that, still assuming this rumor is true, there would most likely be a perk that allows you to move while drawn.

Most likely they just force you to walk while holding the bowstring back. Note that you can't even run backwards in any circumstance though.

I think the concern (mine anyway), is that being a dedicated archer won't really be an option anymore. I don't know anything about the rumor regarding not being able to move while shooting/aiming, but they have stated that arrows will be much more rare, and bow draw time will be greatly increased in order to offset the increased amount of damage. This doesn't really make sense to me. If I can only find a few arrows, I really can't level up and become adept at archery. Also, if the draw time is so slow, I will probably only be able to fire off 1-2 shots before the enemy is on me. Maybe that will be enough to take him down with the increased damage, but that seems a little TOO overpowered. Why wouldn't everyone just make archery a minor skill in order to kill a few enemies at range, and then switch to melee weapons? I trust they will make a good decision, it just sounds kind of weird right now.

I don't think it means it won't be an option, I think it means that it'll change it so the archer playstyle is much more dynamic and uniquely challenging. You can't play it like a "melee with a long reach" character anymore, so you simply just need to adapt to the new methods.

The new archery system sounds like it'll make archers more leathal than ever... they just have to be even more aware of their surroundings as bad positioning or a sloppy attack will cost them. It's a very high-risk, high reward sounding playstyle that focuses on doing visceral and damaging attacks from a distance. Trick is, you just have to aim it right (and thats where the risk comes in).

Hopefully they add crossbows for some of the closer-quarters areas like dungeons. Though I'm sure it's still possible to be a leathal archer at close range, just your window of time is much smaller if you make a mistake.

I have a few concerns regarding this whole run and shoot thing.

Shooting a bow accurately requires full concentration on exactly that, shooting. Running forwards or backwards or moving at all will severely damage your ability to concentrate on shooting. I wouldn't mind being able to move while shooting, but there should be great penalties to accuracy while you are in motion. Of course running backwards should give you a greater penalty than for example walking forwards. :tongue: Also higher marksman skills should reduce penalty somewhat.

This way you could hide behind a rock, nock an arrow and draw the bow, move out from cover (penalty to accuracy while moving), stop and stand still (regaining accuracy), aim and shoot at your enemy.

Also while I'm at it:

(from http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/01/24/skyrim-building-better-combat.aspx?PostPageIndex=3)

If this means that you can release the arrow before you've drawn all the way back, then I think it's stupid, because there is no way you would be able to shoot accurately drawing differently each time you shoot. :rolleyes:

If it means that the power of your shot increases the longer you hold it at full draw, it still makes no sense. In reality, most bows grow weaker as you hold the string at full draw. Oh and before you ask; I know that this is a game and not reality, but since we are talking about weapons that exist in reality, I would expect weapons in a game to behave the same way. :happy:

Hopefully, 1 or 2 shots can down an enemy. You shoot, then run to a new position, then stop, draw, and shoot again. As far as the Rare Arrows thing... each arrow's more valuable now, in terms of rarity and damage output. If there are only 25% of the arrows than there used to be, but each arrow does 5x more damage, it's a net gain. And it will take fewer shots to level up the Archery Skill.

I hope it requires you to stop before you can aim, but not stop before drawing. Moving while drawn should definitely be possible.

As for the first point I quoted I think most people would avoid doing that unless the person had seen them and were now charging at you with a battle axe. As for the other point I'm sure it will cap the damage increase after a second or so, but it would be nice for you to get weaker after holding it for a while so you lose accuracy and power.

If your idea is how it works, then I would be fine with it. Now that I think of it, as long as they make the arrows recoverable (off the ground from missed shots, and out of the enemy once killed), then the "rarity of arrows" issue shouldn't really matter too much. I guess they would have to make a certain percentage of used arrows break or something though, otherwise you could just reuse them indefinitely .

I'm still curious how the 1-2 shot kills with arrows will tie in with higher level enemies, and how it will compare to melee combat. I.E. will I be able to take down a daedra with 1-2 arrows the same as a rat as long as my archery skill is leveled up? I would imagine they would also have to increase the damage dealt by hand to hand weapons as well, because it would seem weird to bring down an enemy with 1 shot from a bow, while taking 50 clean hacks from a broadsword at a similar skill level to make any headway. I definitely welcome the deadlier archer idea, I just hope it doesn't relegate the skill to a minor role, or cause some sort of balancing issue with the combat. I guess we will have to wait and see...

Try shooting a fireball out of your hands. I dare you.

Exactly this is a game of elves dragons and mages, I think it's safe to say realism within this world should have its limits.

Stick and move, it's not a problem at all. Bows aren't the same as machine guns. As for running backwards I'm glad they did something about that, it was ridiculous.


Of course, because they're riding on a horse.

I think that being able to take down an enemy in one or two well placed shots will be more satisfying then turning your enemy into a pincushion before you kill them. If an enemy reaches you, you have your trusty dagger (or daggers, as the case may be) to fall back on. Having skill at both long range and short range combat has always been a part of the archer class. When playing Oblivion, you could back pedal fire for minutes to take down higher level opponents. I'm glad to be getting marksmen back as a viable combat skill which will equal magic and melee. The combat triangle was severely unbalanced in Oblivion. In regards to arrows, I'm hoping we will be able to craft our own, perhaps under the smith skill.

That sounds way better to me...and i always play the assassin/ranger type.
Where's the problem?

I have always relied on my bow for killing off enemies. I should be able to pick them off before more come running, so standing still shouldn't be too much of a problem, but I'm still against limitations imposed on my character. Not being able to run n gun will make the game feel less like a shooter, but I'm still somewhat opposed. With the penalty to speed while walking backwards, I doubt you could take advantage of running away while firing anyway.

I'm hoping that archery feels/plays as good as Mount and Blade at least.

I have no problem with it at all,it's going to be more interesting,and make us think a bit more.
After all assassins/ranger types know their surroundings and are intelligent,they plan attacks...and usually think of a backup.
Don't forget the enemies might not automatically know where you are this time around,from what i've heard,thats another advantage to that style.
Maybe traps....we can drop runes ( which is a trap ),then there is poison,stealth types will have plenty at their disposal.
I'm really looking forward to this new way.
But that's my view.

The archers in Oblivion were so blasted annoying. They were too fast to hit with fireballs and I could never get close enough to them for melee combat. I'm glad this was changed ^_^.

I'm glad they have,but assassins /ranger types will still kick [censored]...i have no doubt :tongue:
Also,i will bet my backside there is some sort of perk,that makes us faster etc,not to mention the dragon shouts....YES,some are for stealth too
Thanks i'm here all week.
Also we can burn oil,and there was concept art of a flaming arrow.
That tells me there is a very high chance archers etc ,can do that.
We won't be weakened,we'll be stronger....just you wait