I think it is worth being bothered by when it very clearly manifests itself through gender disparities in different professions and social circles. I've mainly pursued interests related to music and sound throughout the years, like production and composition/theory, and the amount of women I've met in either of those I could count on my fingers. And based on the ones I've talked to it seems it's been a very uphill battle for them that can feel uncomfortable at times. The further away you get from the performance aspect the more of a sausage fest it becomes.

Likewise, when I was growing up with my sister and we go through that phase when your parents try to prod you into various hobbies and activities there was a clear gender distinction. My sister was encouraged to get into horse riding. Now this might vary regionally, and it might be different in more rural areas, but here horses are considered a very "feminine" activity. My dad tried to get me into all the typical "guy" stuff like football, hockey, etc without much success. I like animals though, and I like horses, but it never once occured to my parents that it might be worth pursuing that direction. Feels like a missed opportunity there and I never did end up having a regular social activity to attend as a child.

Hmm. I had considered that, and I guess my opinion on that was influenced and biased by the lack of such things in my life. As Abessalom Junior I had chances to try the same things as a female would, so I'm probably being unfair there. My parents were pretty chill. I figured if you were swayed away from doing something not typically associated with your gender at a young age, it wouldn't bother you as an advlt because you'd have adapted to that, but then I remembered that it's obviously harder for persons of one gender to get into certain occupations and professions for the same reasons. I can't argue with that.

Damn. I really wanted to be able to disagree with both sides completely.

ive never understood why it mattered to any one what any one else calls themselves genderwise. it doen't effect you in any way. It always comes off as a huge insecurity about their own identity when questioning other people's.

man, woman. its all the same. you're all human.

My close friends know, and while I generally prefer feminine pronouns more than masculine, I don't flip-flop and ask them to call me male today and female the next. As a whole it'd be too much precursor to deal with in conversations

However we are all shaped by some form of society norm, or atleast a norm you were instilled with at young ages, lets say you were in a house hold where being homosixual was looked at with disgust, chances are, if you dont turn out to be homosixual, you will either hate the judgement of homosixuals, or you with to some varying degree be disgusted by them aswell, same goes for racism, i wish not to discuss whay i am, any further.

And i would note, i do not hold these opinions, i am simply giving an example of what being rased under certain circumstances can bring.

Scriptname ForceGenderChangeOnSkirtWear extends Actor Actor property MaleBody auto Event OnSkirtWear(Actor akActor)      if akActor == MaleBody        GoToState("Female")         MaleBody.SetGender(Female)      endifEndEvent

Er... funny? Not sure how to take this

I grew up in a house where it was me and my mom. she went to work and then came home made me dinner and watched TV. if my mom ever had any beliefs, she kept them to her self. Every thing ive learned ive learned doing my own way because no one tried to brainwash me with their BS

Then your freedom has shaped you, you can surely see where i am coming from correct? Since you were free to make your own decisions, you formed an opinion based on you unbias raising.

Edit: i too was left to my own devices, only my mom was at home, and my dad worked, but they both left me alone, and watched tv, ect.

It's like if DNA had some code where a guy would change gender if he put on a skirt. Supporting my point I take it.

no. because it has nothing to do with self identity and other people being insecure about what gender other people choose to call themselves.

I know you are saying society has an impact, but that isn't what we are discussing.

I suppose so, seeing as DNA is shapped like a double helix, or so i am led to believe.

Edit: To Mirglof, yes you are correct, i suppose i was distracted by my own point.

Dunno... http://i.imgur.com/CXVmxCB.jpg

"Sensitive" can mean a lot of things, though. It can mean that a person is easily affected by external stimuli, and it can also mean that a person is observant and possessing of a high http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence. IMO the former is a bit of a weakness, while the latter is a strength (a very "manly" one, at that, since it involves mastering one's own emotions as well as interpreting those of others), and not mutually exclusive of other types of mental or physical strengths. The best salesmen, negotiators, and statesmen (even poker players) could all be considered "sensitive."

Again, I've known a lot of "manly men" that were quick to anger and become aggressive thinking that this was a sign of strength, when in fact they were showing how easy it was to "hurt their feelings" and how badly they wanted to prove themselves.

To me, there is both a mundane and transmundane aspect to gender. Or should I say, sixuality. For the mundane, you have the biology. A person is X because they have certain equipment. Our society has gender roles and expectations and sometimes people feel they have to conform to them, otherwise they are an invalid to their six. This can manifest in either self denial and restraint, or compensation. Some people who feel that they fail at these expectations are of the wrong six. Playing with trucks rather than barbies, etc. For me, I think gender roles are a load of crap. Just live your life. You're not any less of a man if you are a househusband who looks after kids and takes them to soccer practice.

There's also an intangible, yet personal aspect to it as well. What is displayed on the outside, doesn't mean it's see through and showcases what is on the inside. Look at old people. They are the same type of person as a 20 year old. But their bodies have betrayed them and they seem different. Growing up as a kid, you think they're different. But as you get older, you realize you are still the same you, but when you look in the mirror, you're not 12 anymore. But even though you have a silver mustache, it doesn't make you who you are. I believe the same can apply for six.

Maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, either.

rargh I iz manly man on gaming forums [censored] people who challenge my over compensation!!!!!1!!!1!!!

Real doubled edged sword. I'm all for equality, gay rights, women in the army and guys working in the kindergarten, but it's hard when you see guys who think women are only good for cooking and humping, and chicks who get offended if you're implying they can't do something and try to impose their superiority over men, despite that being totally unrelated to what you actually said. I think people today are too primitive, and those who aren't tend to go totally overboard.