So I just fnished the mainquest for Skyrim and I'm a little confused. I thought all souls went back to the Dreamsleeve to be reborn. I've heard that the process of rebirth takes time and that souls experience the dreamsleeve differently, which explains Nords seeing it as Sovngarde, but there are souls that have been the for thousands of years.... How is it that they haven't been reborn yet?

And when you look up and see that light in the sky what is it? I'm guessing Aetherius. Is that right?

Sovngarde is basically a some kind of Valhalla for the Nords. Spirits of long dead Nord heroes reside in Sovngarde.

We just answered you in the other topic. Why make a second one?

-_-

No I mean I don't understand Sovngarde in relation to the Dreamsleeve

Check the times. I made this one first cuz I didn't see the other topic that was addressing the same issue, so I took my question there.

BTW can I get a mod to lock this?

Please be more specific and i think i can help you with this question.

We don't either. That's because it's some developer's genius idea of a carbon copy of Valhalla, butting up against actual Elder Scrolls lore.

Needs expanding and redeeming. Let me know if Skyrim made any progress in that regard.

Against Elder Scrolls lore? Ever since Bloodmoon, Sovngarde was known as a place, not some wacked out Dreamsleeve concept. Where did you even find a source that claims Dreamsleeve is also Sovngarde? I read UESP but that was it, it provided no source.

The Dreamsleeve is not solidly established in lore. But that doesn't change the fact that utterly unreformed real-world mythological or fantasy fiction concepts should not be allowed into the lore. There may be a lot of elves, but I sure as hell don't see Legolas or Beowulf walking around. Don't want Valhalla either.

Correction: ever since Bloodmoon, we've known that Nords believe they go to a place called Sovngarde after death. Skyrim is first in presenting it as a 'real' place. The idea of souls remaining uneaten by the Dreamsleeve is hardly new or exclusive to Sovngarde (Nerevarine ghosts in Morrowind, Radac Stungnthumz in Tribunal, the Forlorn Watchman in Oblivion, Potema in Skyrim, etc.). I've not yet gotten to that part of the main quest, so I cannot comment further, but suffice it to say that completely separating Sovngarde from the Dreamsleeve and having it exist as a wholly separate thing makes no sense. It either has to have a reason for being separate (being the 'underworld' of Shor, being a place for souls chosen by Shor to save for the next kalpa, a variant on the Farshores, etc.) or it has to be a part of the Dreamsleeve in some way.

i have a feeling people use the Dreamsleeve concept more because you all feel a "proper" afterlife is not as fitting as a recycle bin.



Why can't it work like a Daedric Realm then? Shor created it for nords as you said who die valiantly in battle?

Lord of Souls largely confirms it (without naming it as such), and the concept has been around since before the introduction of Sovngarde (it first came up in Battlespire, though there it was used mostly as a transmission network, a purpose which still survives in obscure texts). Here's a http://imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/Concerning_the_Dreamsleeve.html backed up on TIL about it - read Proweler's post. As you'll notice, if you haven't already, the dreemsleeve isn't just a replacement for an afterlife or a recycling system for souls - it is a current that underlies the fabric of Nirn and allows for extra-temporal travel and transmission.



It could, and it may. As I said, I'm not in a position to draw a fully informed conclusion at the moment. My point is that it must exist in relation to the established, rather than being a separate and unrelated phenomena.

Interesting. Thanks. I will give it a read. Hopefully Bethesda can give word on this in the future.

Maybe Sovngarde exists outside time?

Maybe it doesn't exist and it was all a dream. :spotted owl:

The Stormcloak soldier you meet was slain at Ddawn and awoke in a mist-shrouded vale to the terror of the World-Eater.


And the awful fighting began again.

I have a feeling that to discover the nature of Sovngarde, we have to discover the nature of the portal to Sovngarde. It is implied that the portal was created by the Dragon Priests to allow Alduin to feed off the souls of the Nordic dead (and the power of Shor?). Shor is the Nordic interpretation of Lorkhan, right? Could Sovngarde be Shor's equivalent to a Daedric sphere, where Nord heroes go after death, similar to how Hircine claims the souls of Werewolves and brings them to his realm to hunt eternally.

If it can be said that Lorkhan has a sphere it would be Nirn. He his the heart and soul of it. I don't know that he'd have another elsewhere.

Like how mortals who are bound to daedra end up in the Lord's realm (and occasionally aedra), so do the nords who die valiantly in battle.

Holes leading to the Aetherius, which leaks raw magicka to saturate Mundus and Oblivion.

So Sovngarde is Lorkhan's equivalent to a Daedric Prince's Plane of Oblivion?

It is what I'm alluding too. Except he's technically an aedroth (though you'll never hear a mer say that).

It seems that way, it was my first impression. In Skyrim, Sovngarde is talked about to death, so I am guessing valiant nords go there when they die, equivalent to werewolves going to the Hunting Grounds and Nightingales going to Nocturnal's realm.

Maybe that's where the Heart went.....

I had the thought that Sovngarde is just an idea, and Alduin goes to Sovngarde to destroy the ideas that can cause his death. Thought it was strange how the afterlife of the Nords lacked Nords.