Vehk would have thought Seht wrongheaded, but Seht really didn't care what Vehk thought. What Seht cared about was the way to perfection, and would Vehk's CHIM have anything to do with perfection?
Psijic Endeavor followers think the Psijics wrongheaded, but the Psijics don't care what they say. What the Psijics care are making the mortal world perfect through changing, and it has nothing to do with CHIM.

So generally one way thought leads to no conflict.

Sul played The Legend of Vehk: Sheogorath's Mask and lost. That's what eventually brought the moon down.

I do not believe Dagoth Ur just WAS corrupted and betrayed the others. There are too many stories, non of which were truly confirmed. So at this moment your statement is merely theory as mine is. So, hence I believe the Tribunal and Nerevar betrayed Voryn. Voryn was far too loyal to have betrayed them, and we know the Tribunal had been already corrupted and were a deceitful bunch. Besides, trusting Vehk/Vivec is like trying to trust a person like him is a fatal error indeed or will at least bring deep consequences.

Maybe. From Voryn's point of view it certainly was betrayal and yes, he never betrayed anyone. Why would Nerevar backstab his best friend? I think Nerevar chose to mercy kill Dagoth. Nerevar was quite a religious guy. Azura's pet. Say Dagoth actually defended the cause of the Dwemer, or that he proposed Nerevar to use Kagrenac's tools. Nerevar wouldn't have agreed.
Don't think Vehk is hardwired to deceive. He is subtle and did twist history, but does not simply mess around with friends. You know it, Vehk the mortal killed Nerevar in other times. Vehk the god didn't, and it's him the god that exists in the current timeline. Lies become truths with Vehk.

This is a theory once more; You cannot be sure whether Vehk or Vivec is telling the truth or whether not he is simply masking it with a twisted lie. He is a poet and has a very precise way of twisting the truth. The Tribunal seem to be the only ones who account them as being attacked and or betrayed by Dagoth Ur/Voryn, the other accounts say the opposite thing.

Besides, Vehk was still Vehk during the time Dagoth Ur was betrayed. Therefore even your theory stands slightly flawed and seems partially biased. I am assuming you like Vivec/Vehk as a character? Also, what grasps me insanely is one thing, how do you signify Vehk and Vivec as separate people? Is it because he acquired CHIM or the power of the Lorkhan? The Lorkhan's heart is corrupt and corrupts. While Vehk still remained himself even as he became "Vivec." As mentioned, in acquiring CHIM you do not lose yourself rather then retain who you were yet understand things you previously couldn't and with that comes great power. If Vehk could decieve as Vehk, he would and still could as Vivec.

Besides, Logically, Voryn was the most faithful and loyal of the four at the time; Even if he was corrupted by the heart, he'd still had been willing to share the knowledge and power. Did the Tribunal not share such power together, while still being corrupted by the heart? Yes, that is the answer. So, in this standpoint, such accusations of the Tribunal to Voryn betraying them seems thin and without evidence, a bit fishy if you ask me.

I didn't say Dagoth Ur was a traitor. I said he was "corrupted" by the Heart or did not share Nerevar's worldview...or both. The story of him betraying Nerevar is Temple propaganda, unless Vivec altered reality again, either by himself or with the help of a nation's faith, which is unlikely in this case, since House Dagoth is not even mentioned in the Lessons as being a great power in old Resdayinia, let alone Dagoth Ur mentioned as being Nerevar's friend. Dagoth Ur was the idealist/dreamer of the bunch thus he wouldn't betray his closest friends. There are no hard facts related to his first death so I, we can only theorize.

Some things Vivec says are half-truths. Some of his lies became truths. Some truths die. The people's beliefs reshape gods. The last universe (in which Nerevar lead the Chimer and wasn't just the herald of the Tribunal) is no more.
Dragon Breaks are mind[censored]ing. Vehk the Mortal and Vehk the God are of separate, alternate universes, yet the universes are linked to each other. Akatosh's the key. Vehk the God never murderered Nerevar and has always existed in the current universe. Vehk the mortal did murder Nerevar. Are these two the same being? Doesn't matter. Are these two the same conciousness? Yes. I've said somewhere above that I'm guilty of defending Vivec. However, I didn't mean to sound biased. I was/am only trying to show that his lies actually make sense, which means they are at least half-truths.

Ur would not have shared the power. I think that's a naive view enforced by his role as "the betrayed" character. His position in the literary cosmology bends empathy towards him, but he's probably one of the most dangerous characters in all of TES.

There would have one House for all of Morrowind if he hadn't been killed.

He did share the power. That is how Corprus works. Besides, how would one house for all of Morrowind be a bad thing? With the politics and whatnot, it'd probably be better. Dagoth Ur's threat wasn't that, but the fact that he was going to turn Tamriel into a mere extension of his own will.

It wouldn't be better. Magical fascism doesn't make fascism any more appealing.

Corprus is a subtle union, and yes, "divinity" would have been shared between all. But agency and freedom would have been destroyed. House Dagoth would have been in control, and real power would have lain with that house's elite. There is symbolism in the Ash Slaves; they have no brains. Literally.

Yes but such creation of the Blight and ideas didn't fester into reality until years after Dagoth Ur was struck down the first time. During those years afterwards is when such madness and blind-vengeance simply overthrew Voryn's will and conscious.

When He was struck down the first time, is the era in what this is about. And at that time he wasn't mad like he was when you came across him. The Tribunal on the most part created him how he was. And I believe the utter betrayal of those he was loyal too and loved is what weakened him to the point where the corruption of the heart could easily steal him away and warp him.

Tribunal: Sought to do good. Things went wrong. Their deeds brought forth bad things.

Dagoth Ur: He tried to enforce his wish upon others and reshape the world as he saw fit because he was not happy with the way things were and he had the power to change them. He did not mean to do evil, but his actions dealt a lot of damage. He was a threat.


That, the voice acting and his dialogue. In my case, at least.
His plan was boring and therefore wrong.

I'll admit, the first time I saw an Ash Zombie, I nearly fell out of my chair. They just don't make monsters like that anymore.

Two disclaimers: I'm late in reading this (sorry) and I haven't read in-Skyrim books yet, but I was there with Vivec...

Say what you will, but Vivec's power came from Lorkhan's heart. He was not a god before that. I'm not a believer in Chim (at least, not the altered definition that gets attention in these forums), but Vivec certinanly had style. That's all I'll give him credit for.

Azura's feelings towards Vivec were complex, but he was powerful. If he could displace her in the beliefs of the masses, then that'd hurt Azura (but not destroy her), but remember - - and here we go - - Azura was a true god. Vivec was a very powerful mage and immortal all because of the heart. Argue about what a God really is, but take away the source of his power and Vivec was at the mercy of the Nerevarine pretty quickly.
(Note: Remember that Azura has been waiting a long time for revenge against the tribunal. She didn't hope it'd come some day - she knew it would. That "not if, but when" proved to me she was a real god. (Take away all faith and would it hurt her? you ask. hmmm. idk.)

Dagoth Ur's role was very muddled and I never really knew. One thing was certain, everyone was lying about something. In the end it didn't matter. Dagoth Ur's actions bent towards the evil end of the spectrum and he needed to go. (The same happened to Almalexia, if you recall. Although, "crazy" could also be used to describe her at the end.) You are defined by your actions. Do bad things and you are seen, rightfully so, as a bad person.


War_Psyence said Nerevar was was religious; he was Azura's pet. Not a flattering statement, but very true. You have to wonder what Nerevar or even the Nerevarine would have done if they were more selfish and didn't listen to Azura.

There are plenty of reasons for the player character to complete the main quest. S/he can complete it and still defy Azura, who's far from being omniscient. Nerevar was her puppet, yes, but you can't blame him for that. All the Chimer were Daedra pawns.

I would disagree with that. Vivec himself states at the end of the Morrowind MQ (after you defeat Dagoth Ur) that while Dagoth Ur is gone, they survive, and some element of his powers yet remain, along with some power granted from the faith of his followers. So removing the source of Vivec's godhood (I won't get into CHIM) did not, in fact, completely revert him to a mortal.

Chim makes you the godhead, but your (once)mortal self is still mortal. Vivec's imortality was dependant on the heart. Without it he can be killed. And the godhead, otherwise, is asleep. So he couldn't do anything about it.

The Godhead is sleeping but realizes he is sleeping and thus creates a paradoxical thing called Lucid-Dreaming, or something similar which would then grant him power to do something about it. That's basically what CHIM is, is just Lucid-Dreaming with reality.