Don't get too excited about graphics

Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:41 pm

A new engine does not equate to phenomenally better graphics. Particularly when we're dealing with a company like Bethesda (who, as far as I know, haven't made a new engine for anything since the mid-1990s), it's very possible that it doesn't lead to that at all.

Er... they aren't expected to last for another five years by most everyone. Well, except Sony, but that's more PR spin than anything - they know full well that they'll be releasing a new console well before then, but it helps sales if consumers don't know this.

It would be a mistake (actually a misnomer) to state that Bethesda has not made a new engines since the 90s - this is completely false, and discounts all of the progress made over the last 10 years on their Multiple game platforms. I give the MUCH more credit than that.

The graphics will be better because even in the very limited information we have received, those who have seen it say it looks "Great!". To think the graphics wont improve at all is to assume the absolute worst, and Bethesda is not in the habbit of failing to deliver IMHO.

I think they will be Better, but I don't think they will be IdTech5-Better, as the game engine is designed for open-world RPGs (which have different demands on the systems). We do have the same consoles we have had for the last 4 years, and games have steadily improved the quality of their graphics on those same platforms - so based on Actual industry trends here, I'm going to Assume that the graphics will be very nice. :)

Keep the faith.

Miax
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aisha jamil
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:41 am

People whos say that the consoles are weak dont know what theyre talking about. A new Xbox 360 with a controller cost about 500 dollars. Try to spend 500 dollars on a pc and compare it to the consoles and you will find out that the pc is weaker.

Not at all, no. The Xbox 360 is over 5 years old, and PC hardware has come miles and miles since then. It's pretty easy to build a PC for less than $500 that's a beast compared to the 360. Also, the 360... er... doesn't cost 500 dollars to begin with, so I'm not sure where anything in your post is coming from.
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Agnieszka Bak
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:03 am

A new engine does not equate to phenomenally better graphics. Particularly when we're dealing with a company like Bethesda (who, as far as I know, haven't made a new engine for anything since the mid-1990s), it's very possible that it doesn't lead to that at all.

Er... they aren't expected to last for another five years by most everyone. Well, except Sony, but that's more PR spin than anything - they know full well that they'll be releasing a new console well before then, but it helps sales if consumers don't know this.

It would be a mistake (actually a misnomer) to state that Bethesda has not made a new engines since the 90s - this is completely false, and discounts all of the progress made over the last 10 years on their Multiple game platforms. I give them MUCH more credit than that.

The graphics will be better because even in the very limited information we have received, those who have seen it say it looks "Great!". To think the graphics wont improve at all is to assume the absolute worst, and Bethesda is not in the habbit of failing to deliver IMHO.

I think they will be Better, but I don't think they will be IdTech5-Better, as the game engine is designed for open-world RPGs (which have different demands on the systems). We do have the same consoles we have had for the last 4 years, and games have steadily improved the quality of their graphics on those same platforms - so based on Actual industry trends here, I'm going to Assume that the graphics will be very nice. :)

Keep the faith.

Miax
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Enny Labinjo
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:18 am

Since I'm not going to be able to afford a computer upgrade this year (I bought my current rig in 2008), I'm hoping that they don't make the graphics so uber that I'm left SOL. I don't need the best of the best graphics to enjoy a game. I still enjoy Morrowind after all. :)
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Jessica Lloyd
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:13 am

I still enjoy Morrowind after all. :)


Hell, I am enjoying Arena and it's graphics. I also think Fallout 1 and 2 are the most immersive games I've ever played.
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Allison C
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:37 am

It would be a mistake (actually a misnomer) to state that Bethesda has not made a new engines since the 90s - this is completely false, and discounts all of the progress made over the last 10 years on their Multiple game platforms. I give them MUCH more credit than that.

I don't, and it's certainly not a mistake. Bethesda hasn't made a new rendering engine since XnGine. There's nothing mistaken or false about that - they haven't. They used XnGine for a long time, modified it to support 3D acceleration with some of their later games but continued to use it even then (which was probably a mistake, given that their products were far, far behind the rest of the market visually after a while because of it). Since then, they've been using middleware engines for all of their products. Feel free to point out a Bethesda-developed product that hasn't, because as far as I'm aware no such product exists.

Aside from all that, I'm not saying that there won't be technical improvements to the graphics. We're almost certainly going to see, at minimum, similar effects, alongside models with more polygons and higher-res textures. If we're lucky we'll even see some somewhat newer tech like hardware tessellation being supported by their engine. Absolutely none of that is going to matter in the least if their artists can't actually produce assets that take advantage of it, and I have very little faith in their ability to do so.

The fact that you like, respect, or have faith in Bethesda changes absolutely nothing about the fact that they have absolutely no experience with modern game engine development.
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Jinx Sykes
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:59 pm

I bought my Xbox for 500 this year, and pc might have become better by the time, and why? Because in the end they cant handle those games that is released after a few years.

For an example: I you bought a pc in 2006 to run the games to the max, you would need to get a new pc in 2009 cause the games became too powerfull for the pc, but yet the Xbox wich was released in 2006 runs the games in 2010 with the same techonoly for 4 years. The consoles dont need to be improved for the games untill 2013 - 15, becuas that they are specialized in running games.
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biiibi
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:08 am

Of course the game can have great graphics. Look at some of the games being rlelased for the console. Stellar graphics. Some people honestly think that consoles can't do [censored]. :banghead:
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Rachael
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:53 am

I am excited. I think the graphics will be very good. They'll probably tone them down for the consoles but I have hope that they'll let us PC users to go all out.
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victoria gillis
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:01 pm

I'm sure the graphics will be great.

Not revolutionary, but I assume they will be MUCH better than Oblivions. Not Crysis 2 great, but still great...
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Maya Maya
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:43 am

ok that hurt a little, but compared to a standard computer that someone gets (not mainly for gaming) is gonna be a lot worse than Xbox360 or PS3 and yeh I know the xbox doesn't have 11 different processors but it has 3 I believe. Anyways yeah I know a computer can be overclock and upgraded a whole lot. I am just saying a standard pc vs. a standard gaming system the gaming system is gonna win, and companies will try and appeal to the broadest audience, and I am more of a software person, not a hardware



11 processors?

Try one 3-core processor for the xbox and a dual-core for an xbox.

You can also run Crysis on High settings, cool and quiet for around $430 as long as you have a optical drive to recycle (if not it shoots up to $450).

The xbox couldn't run Crysis on Mid-low settings without problems.
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Chris BEvan
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:27 am

I bought my Xbox for 500 this year

Ah, you're in Denmark. That explains it. 360s are much, much cheaper elsewhere.

and pc might have become better by the time, and why? Because in the end they cant handle those games that is released after a few years.

Again, not at all true. I purchased a laptop years ago that wasn't nearly top-of-the-line at the time, and even that can still run newer games.

You don't seem to really know much of anything about PC gaming.
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Chloe :)
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:21 am

No.

Yes :obliviongate: aaahhhhh
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Genevieve
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:35 am

Even the setup you stated doesn't come close to scratching $15000, even with intels 6 core processor, or 4 GPUs. Thats more like $5000 or more, but I'm sure you can make a $15k gaming pc. I was just making an alienware joke.


http://www.originpc.com/thebigo-features.asp
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Heather beauchamp
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:36 am

The jump from Halo 3 to Halo: Reach was absolutely phenomenal, so I thing Bethesda can pull of something similar.


Disagreed

Don't know how you could think that. They claim it was a new engine but it's still a no AA 640p 30fps engine like halo 3 and odst
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Céline Rémy
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:15 am

People whos say that the consoles are weak dont know what theyre talking about. A new Xbox 360 with a controller cost about 500 dollars. Try to spend 500 dollars on a pc and compare it to the consoles and you will find out that the pc is weaker. So the consoles is more powerfull than the standard pc. Only the expensive"hardcoe gamer computers" can run better than a 360, and no body wants to spend 1500 dollars on apc to run the game at maximum.


LOL, wut? The 360 was released over 5 years ago. ATI's latest INTEGRATED graphics solution is BETTER than the xbox 360 so yes you can buy even a $300 PC that is better than a 360. And for a PC that's crap

Too much console fanboyism in this thread. Consoles are old tech, Crysis 2 is being DUMBED DOWN to run on the consoles because the THREE YEAR OLD ORIGINAL CRYSIS can't run on them at all. The PS3's CPU turned out to be basically crap. What was supposed to be so special about the SPUs in the Cell can easily be done much better now using GPGPU (opencl, cuda, direct compute) and programmers have to skirt around its limitations just to make a game that looks as good on a 360.
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Mark Hepworth
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:59 am

This is a multi-platform game. It needs to run smoothLY on Xbox360 and PS3 so.... Some people may have upgraded PC's since Oblivion, but the Xbox360 is no better than it was four and a half years ago.

Since Oblivion is just about three months shy of being five years old, the first week of March, did the Xbox version not arrive until June? No way I'd know. Never wanted any console, never had one, nor did my kids ever want one.

There will likely be some upgrades to the engine, so it will look a bit better than Fallout 3 and Oblivion, and they will also likely make it semi-scalable so that it looks better on PC than it does on the 360. But the reality is that the PC market isn't that big any more, so they aren't going to spend a fortune doing lots of extra work especially for the PC.

So yeah, it will no doubt look really good, but when I see people posting pictures of real photographs and expecting it to look similar, you are only setting yourselves up for disappointment. Same goes for upgrading your PC components. My other PC still has an 8800GTX which is about 3.5 years old and it still runs 99% of games cranked. The only ones it struggles with are PC exclusives (Arma2, FSX, etc). The fact is, the crapbox360 is holding back progress of gaming graphics, and this game will be no different.


Don't forget, folks, bethesda has never bothered to learn anything useful about hardware, as witness bad official requirements on all of their games, at least for graphics. Oblivion couldn'r run on anything less speedy than a Geforce 6600 GT, and that couldn't handle anything better than the small textures. The Radeon 9500s were older than the Radeon 9600s, and numbering didn't quite mean as much to ATI then, so instead of naming the 9600 a 9300, they gave it a higher number to show it was newer, whether it was slower, or not, and it was. In other words, the FXes and the 6200 were nothing but "Pie in the Sky" lies before the first patch introduced the Ultra Low ("mud") image quality option, and that didn't help any Gefiorce FX less capable than the best of the 5700s.

Did they manage to improve their aim three years later? Let's see:

* Direct X 9.0c compliant video card with 256MB RAM
(NVIDIA 6800 "GS" or better/ ATI X850 or better)
{Added my note here, the X800 Pro & up also, and
avoid the Geforce 6800 SE, and 6800 XT}

For SMALL TEXTURES, the X800 / X850 are very fast, which makes the newer cards after them that are useful, much slower, but able to run Medium Textures, which really wasn't made clear. The only reason the X700 and X800 weren't tested was the drivers from AMD stopped including any cards other than X850s in their newer drivers (although Omega drivers are fine, and one of the X700s, the "XT", can be used as well. A minimum MEDIUM Texture card, such as the X1650, should have been named, and the bad 6800s should have been shown as excluded. .

Comparing Oblivion with F3, the errors are far less eggrgious, but still were wrong, and what happened next?

Ridiculousness, that's what. I won't even quote the BS that Obsidian named as official for FNV, it's just plain STUPID, is what it is.

Relatively close to the end of the Radeon X1n00 generation, they finally replaced the X1600 cards which had been embarrasingly slow compared to the Geforce 7600s. They renamed the X1600 XT, figured out a way to sell it for the X1600 Pro's price, and named it as the X1650 Pro. The X1650 XT was a very slightly detuned X1800 GTO. But there were still lots of the X1600 Pro chips in the warehouses. Those were run through a BIOS update, to answer to the name "X1300 XT", and a few of them were sold that way. The major part of that stock went back to the recycler, so the new name was hardly used.

Until Obsidian decided to publish that it as a minimum Radeon, which really befuddled the owners of the real X1300 Pro cards, who really had no idea that the REAL name was "X1600".

Stupid, STUPID.

I can't wait to see how assinine the next version of the same requirements gets!
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Toby Green
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:57 am

11 processors?

Try one 3-core processor for the xbox and a dual-core for an xbox.

You can also run Crysis on High settings, cool and quiet for around $430 as long as you have a optical drive to recycle (if not it shoots up to $450).

The xbox couldn't run Crysis on Mid-low settings without problems.


You say that as though the 360 isn't running Crysis 2 on mid settings.


LOL, wut? The 360 was released over 5 years ago. ATI's latest INTEGRATED graphics solution is BETTER than the xbox 360 so yes you can buy even a $300 PC that is better than a 360. And for a PC that's crap

Too much console fanboyism in this thread. Consoles are old tech, Crysis 2 is being DUMBED DOWN to run on the consoles because the THREE YEAR OLD ORIGINAL CRYSIS can't run on them at all. The PS3's CPU turned out to be basically crap. What was supposed to be so special about the SPUs in the Cell can easily be done much better now using GPGPU (opencl, cuda, direct compute) and programmers have to skirt around its limitations just to make a game that looks as good on a 360.


Actually Crysis 2 is not being "dumbed down at all". It is only being run on an engine that can "also" render in a console environment. The PC side is still upgraded, and will look better than console version. But the PC version of Crysis 2 WILL NOT look worse than Crysis.

Either way, graphics really serve no purpose then to present the game. You can have a buitiful game and it still be crap as hell.
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Neko Jenny
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:38 pm

I think theres two sides of this statement. For one i think that just a slightly updated gamebryo engine would suit me just fine as then i wouldnt have to upgrade my computer. On the other hand though it would be really fun if they could make the world look all crysis and make us hope that one day wed have a rig that supports it on ultra settings.

On topic though i think that they will use a new engine, in fact for every previous ES game there has been a different engine so it wouldnt surprise me if they did the same this time around.
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Claire Mclaughlin
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:31 am

PS3 can take so much more.
But the 360 holds it back with multi-platform games.
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Steven Hardman
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:45 pm

PC's are always going to destroy the console games in the Graphics department but that doesn't mean that the console games are ugly no not by a long shot. Oblivion is still an amazing looking game to this day on the 360. Now could the Graphics be better sure but if it means sacrificing good gameplay to get those incredible graphics then no we don't need incredibly better graphics.
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brenden casey
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:48 am

PS3 can take so much more.
But the 360 holds it back with multi-platform games.


Wrong..
Look at Red Dead Redemption. That was a multi-platform open world game and it looked noticeably better on the Xbox 360.
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Hayley O'Gara
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:29 pm

Well even the PS3 isn't perfect either. Look at GT5, it's a lovely looking game, but it' full of jagged edges that are crying out for some AA lovin, AF too. Had it been a PC exclusive it could looked even better.

I find that with a lot of these big open world games, the stuff immediately in front of you looks great, but from about 30 feet and beyond, there is a nasty blur filter. Something that you can see quite clearly in a lot of the Two Worlds 2 screenshots. It is basically pretending to look amazing, but look beyond the immediate surroundings and it looks like a finger painting. And/Or you end up with objects/characters that pop-up out of nowhere.

And for what it's worth, I'm not "flaming" the 360, I like my 360, and I actually own one of each console going all the way back to the Sega days. I'm just trying to give people a bit of a reality check. There has been some progress since Oblivion, so the game is going to look great. But it's just not going to be such a big jump as Oblivion was again, that it ends up looking like the real life photographs I've seen people on the net are pretending is ES:5. I think it will look like a more polished version of this:

http://www.nehrim.de/galerieEV.html
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Tai Scott
 
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Post » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:17 am

generally speaking though XBox and PS3 are better than PC because they have like 11 different processes on them

Your posting career here is over.
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Red Bevinz
 
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Post » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:20 pm

So... what I learned from this thread is that deeply held beliefs never die, and ignorance only dies hard?
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Jason King
 
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