The sad thing about this topic is that you will never convince someone to see your side of it. This goes both was. I have also followed the game since Daggerfall - but where you see falling short, I see it as a different way of doing it. Is it also a coincidence that this new way is also less tedious and frankly boring? I don't think so. Bethesda is a company and it's going to go where it's going to go, but I haven't seen anything bad about their direction save for the fact it's not copy paste every game.

I DO however agree that the game needs more choices quest wise and also more race specific content.

j'll never understand why people attack Morrowind. You HAVE skyrim BECUASE of Morrowind. I bet 90% of these people missed out on it and its nearly impossible to pick up an old game with bad graphics that you've never played before, I agree with that but attacking it in defense of an attack on Skyrim is silly. You are doing the EXACT same thing as the people you are fighting with.

I miss the complexity as well.


Weapon sets are more limited than ever.

Spellmaking is extinct.

Enchanting itself is just copy and paste now, so there is very little, if any, customization.

Monsters have wierd level scaling... for instance...

Low level dragons get killed by weak creatures like trolls and bandits almost instantaneously; and I was under the impression that giants were pushovers for the dragons after seeing one be pick up and thrown like a rag doll in the trailers. I saw a dragon get demolished within a half of a second by giant.... wth!! To solve this Dragons should not have started appearing until the character is level 20, and even then, the player should be recommneded to run from them until level 35+.


Please bring the complexity and depth back for TES VI, Bethesda.

things i miss from morrowind.

some aspects of the atmosphere although overall i think skyrim beats out morrowind.

much more involved political intrigue and backstory

much longer quests for guilds along with more of them to join

way better mainquest (im only about halfway through skyrims but so far going by what ive seen and all the guilds which ive done im not holding my breath for something long and epic)

multiple ways of ingame fast travel (horse carriages are a great start but i plan on adding some boats as well since they have the models and the fast travel script in game now.

NOT the combat

once again definitely NOT the combat

graphics

less handholding and no freaking quest arrows. the very least that bethesda could have done was have the quest arrows turn off when you get to the actual location you are supposed to search. if im stuck i can just use the clairavoyance spell if need help, that at least is an ingame explanation.

everything else i think skryim does better from THE COMBAT, to magic to game world design etc.

Yeah because options is what makes a game fun, right?

I will gladly sacrifice Medium Armor, Spears, left/right Pauldrons and all the other *missing* stuff you Asperger cases complain about, when I get to climb on a Dragon's head and beat the lizard to death while riding on its neck. And mind you doing this in game that still has more content than any other game of this year.

It's not that I am some kind of cinematics-loving-Final Fantasy XIII-really devoted fan, but let me ask you a question. Has there ever been a moment playing Morrowind when you literaly shouted out "Holy crap, this is AWESOME!!!"?
I played Morrowind pretty much non stop since release, but I can't say I have. Did this happen with Skyrim? Hell yeah! See Dragon fight description above.

I don't even know what I am doing spending my time here in this den of constantly nagging little b!tches. I'm off playing this awesome game.

Either you made a typo, or you don't know what the hell you really want.

I take every game of every series as a separate entity. Even though i've been playing TES only from Oblivion there are other long running game series i've seen to get significant changes, none of which have "offended" me in any way (including such controversial titles as Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2 and Final Fantasy XIII :hehe:). In fact i find the idea of a game being offensive completely non-sensical, it just "does not compute" to my mind :shrug:

Anyway, more on topic, i've played Morrowind only a relatively short time, but what i saw was "complexity for the sake of complexity". Oblivion had streamlined the game mechanics to a much more accessible, comfortably usable form. Skyrim continues that trend, but maybe has gone a bit too far in it in certain areas; Skyrim could use a bit more numbers

Wow I like the way you think! [censored] I don't even know why I'M here!

I miss the mad armor combinations in Morrowind, although I wholly understand (and somewhat approve) why Bethesda went away from this.

I miss the crazy enchanting system, although I do NOT miss how uber I was past level ten. Soul trap 1s, 50' radius. Fire damage !MAX! 50' radius. Eternal leviation ring (I do miss that since walking everywhere svcked.)

I miss the overt racism and clannishness of the various areas in the game. Fetcher. Sera. **sigh** Giant mushrooms. Organic houses. Amazing.

Some of what I miss is colored by memory. Those long, complex Dwemer quests stand out, while some of the incredibly boring fedex quests are forgotten.

The nearly devoid SE quadrant of Morrowind--I do not miss that.

Jumping up and down a hillside repeatedly. Q + sneak + hour break. Q + swim + hour break. I do not miss that. I do not miss allowing mudcrabs to maul me repeatedly. I *like* where Bethesda is going with Skyrim's perks and skills, although I would appreciate a little more depth.

Most of all, I do not miss how SLOW I was in the beginning of the game. I'd pick an ugly Breton, get the Boots of Blinding speed, savescum if necessary to avoid total blindness, and THEN begin to enjoy the game.

I guess it's a mixed bag for me.

This I like

In this kind of game, more options = good.


The thing is, you can't actually climb on a dragon's head and beat it to death. The game does it for you in a cinematic cutscene.

If you're seriously suggesting that you prefer a load of cinematic crap to the options Morrowind gave the player, I suggest you go find another game series.


Scripted moves aren't awesome - they're [censored] lame. I grew out of that crap when I was 15.

I'm more impressed by an immersive gameworld with tons of stuff to do. If I believe i'm there, playing the role of a character, then i'll say "holy crap, this is awesome". Watching as the game takes control of my character to perform some cinematic wankery on the other hand does nothing for me at all.

Most sensible thing posted do far. Agree 100%

I only miss the faction number and ranking system, and some spell effects. If I had to choose though, I'd choose Skyrim.

When I first got morrowind, I was a child. I had no idea about anything. I just wondered trying to get stuff. I never got past the first dwemer ruin because I never noticed that little ramp. It took me years to finally be able to beat morrowind.

Despite having had morrowind for near of a decade, I have only ever beaten it...once.

This!
/Signed.

And that would be my perfect TES , like a dream caming true.

Personally I don't find Morrowind any more complex than Skyrim or Oblivion. More armor slot=/=complexity, more weapons=/=complexity, spellcrafting=/=complexity, attributes=/=complexity, 27 skills with no uniqness=/=complexity.
The sad truth is that you Morrowind Lovers(or Morrowhiners if you complain just because something isn't Morrowind or exactly like it) most likely have a bad case of nostalgia.

Having more armor slots are well and fine, but other than letting you mix your appearance more it does not add any real complexity. The only thing about Morrowinds armor I think they did better is that the heavy armor isn't useful at all in sneaking due to its great weight comparred to light.

More weapon designes are also well and good and I am for bringing them all back, but in actuall gameplay the only difference between a katana and a longsword is the name and design. Once again no complexity is lost, just quantity. The only thing I can say have actually affected the character is the removal of short/longswords which I do not support.

Spellcrafting is not a bad idea IMO, but I didn't feel like it added complexity. It added a cheap way of making stronger spells, which is fine by me, but saying that you could make a stronger version of the spell does not give you more complexity. The same thing could be achieved if Bethesda made a patch that moved the destruction spells around in their rank and introdused new spells to take the expert and master rank, or made destruction scale somewhat similar to the melee skills or archery.

The attributes in MW was simply a grinding mess, and rarely made an actuall impact on how you end-game character would be. All characetrs of all classes would have no trouble maxing everything without even putting much effort into it, with the 70+ levels you could get from you class skills. Yes, they added a set of eight fancy numbers to your log, and were vital to your character, but I always felt the only attribute that mattered to raise quickly was endurance.

The amount of skills in Morrowind seems pointless. Short-blade, long-blade, blunt weapons and axe worked axactly the same, only that the weapons had different pint-jobs, namely to give you a better chance of hitting. Having three main types of armor worked well enough, but always seemed like less -powerful heavy armor rather than a unique armor-style. If they had made some major differenses in the three skills they would have worked great.

The system used in Skyrim seems more complx to me for a few reasons:

The Perks. Having a limited amount of perks to define your character was probably the best thig that happened to the series, on line with the right/left hand set-up. A warrior that takes up destruction as a second thought will not be able to cast as many spells or do as much damage. The warriors spells will, most likely, cost twice as much, have no damage bonus and he will likely not have the magica to use them very much. The warrior will however excell at f.exs. 2-handed melee, only matched by those who have put equally many perks into it as himelf. This was not the case in OB and MW where the skill number alone determined if you had mastered the skill or not.

The Health/Stamina/Magica selection. This forces you to chose what is important to your character. Two warrior could end up with very different amount of stamina and health based on how much they rely on armor, blocking, power-attacks. Warrior/Mage hybrids also have to chose how they will do it. They will have less stamina, health and magica than a more "pure" class, but more flexibilety.

The limited enchanting. I think this is a good thing, since it forced you to think about what is most important for your character to put on those boots. More 1-handed damage or extra magica or maybe increased carrying load? The fact that you have to heavily have to invest in enchanting to get the real sweet effects is also good.

Crafting in general. Simple: Adding a crafting for each archetype can't be bad for complexity(even more so when it require you to use of your limited perks to have it be actually usefull).

The only thing I can think of that Morrowind and Oblivion did better was the Birthsigns. While equipment degradation made sense it only forced all melee characters to level up armorer, which again push your character towards a generic "King-of-ll-Trades" character.

In concluton I will say that numbers alone doesn't make a game more complex. Adding permanent choices that will affect you for the rest of the game does.

Do I miss the complexity of Morrowind?
No.
That's because I've only played like 20 minutes of it.......and hated them.
So no, I don't "miss the complexity of it" when I didn't even see any complexity in my first and last 20 minutes playing it.
Graphics are horrible.

LOL. I hear you. Then again, I'm that one weird guy that actually LIKES DA2. Don't know why, I get what people are complaining about but I can't quit playing it. Probably because I love the mage spells/combat and totally love the voice actor for Female Hawke. I swear I've probably beaten the game 10+ times. It's a sickness, I'm seeking help.

Then I don't think you ahve anything to do in this thread since you have no real experince with Morrowind. Just pointing that out.

Skyrim: What's bothering me the most is that NPC's seem so damn hollow. There's like 2-3 lines of dialouge to choose from, perhaps more if it's a unique character. Sure they go to work, sleep and stuff but that still doesn't make it very belivable. For me this is what matters most.

Morrowind had a LOT of flaws. A mix of Morrowinds depth with politics, complex dialouge (you can learn much more lorewise), spellmaking & a few others along with Skyrims graphics, animations and immersive world where people actually just don't stand about all day long. THIS would be epic.

You're not comparing it to Morrowind are you? Where every NPC had an encyclopedia response to a given topic if they happened to know about it?

Way better than 1-3 lines of dialogue. My point was that the dialouge system in Skyrim should have had more depth, so you could actually learn things from the world around you.

Like I said, Morrowind ain't perfect either. But a MIX between the two would be awesome.

Aw man, I feel your pain. I miss finding that awesome sword of doom in the bottom of a ruin, trying it, and realizing that I can't hit [censored] because it's two inches too short to be considered a long-blade... /sarcasm

I'm a fan of the series who has a life and find that said life to be entirely too short to go bugsh*t over a video game.

I have bad news for you but if it's been SEVEN YEARS since the last game you liked was released, you are no longer a fan of the series. You are a fan of the series' PAST. If any company disappoints me two straight times, the second time after a FIVE YEAR waiting period, I vote with my wallet and move on.......like most advlt consumers do in our society.

I didn't like Oblivion one bit. If I didn't like Skyrim either, I wouldn't be here, I'd be taking my business elsewhere. Even then it took a solid year of my son hyping Skyrim to me to even open my mind to giving Bethesda one more chance after that crapadoodle that was Oblivion. This was their last shot with me (I'm not overly satisfied with Fallout either) and so far (I'm only 70 hours in), I'm fine with Skyrim. If I become disenchanted further into the game, I will sell it, move on and consider Elder Scrolls to be something I used to like seven years ago.

Remember, I said I don't understand the posters that HATE the game hanging out here, not folks that have constructive criticism and think it could have been better. Those are two entirely different things.

And THAT reply, is a FACT

I do miss a few things from Morrowind, AND from Oblivion myself, but I moved on. I know Beth is going in another direction, a nd no amount of whining will change it. "If no one complains then nothing will change" is only a reply for an actual problem, not something you just don't agree with.