I think it's safe to say no one's going to argue about Skyrim having a better looking world or combat mechanics.
It's the content that people miss.

Morrowind looks terrible by todays standards but the NPCs and Questlines and Artifacts were just so much more enjoyable.

No.

People have some crazy rose-tinted glasses about the clunky, easy to break and be a god at level 15 mess that MW is. If you want things to depend on dice rolls then play P&P RPG or JRPG where you can slash a sword through someone and watch the "Miss" float by on the screen.

Ehh. It depends, for example all the different weapon types were a little limiting, you pretty much had to pick a specific type of weapon and hope it didn't end up svcking. I prefer One-Handed/Two-Handed over that, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be more weapon types encompassed in those than Maces/Swords/Axes.

To be honest, I thought Morrowind/Oblivion with all the stats was a little too... I don't want to say complex, but... min/max-y, if that means anything. I wanted to play without needing to game the system for the most stat gains, pretty much. That doesn't mean I specifically wanted them to remove stats altogether, though.

I think there's a middle ground that Bethesda can reach in this, though, I used one of the leveling mods for Morrowind, Galsiah's Character Development, that pretty much had a similar effect but included stats. Stats improved automatically with skill leveling, and you gained a level with X stat ups, without a need for resting or to pick anything at all. It felt pretty organic, and it kept the stats.

If they change the next iteration of TES games to that, I think it would please alot of people.

This sure has something to do with the complexity people mean in this thread!

Oh wait, no it doesn't. Stop posting your generic response #3428 and get a brain.

actually, I've dont the exact same thing. Been lookin out for the good mods. Started out on Xbox aswell, well well back in time

Actualy the main point I was trying to show is that in Morrowind the personalization level was huge if compare to skyrim (I know that the have more bugs in Morrowind, but of course I don't wanna the bugs back), I like Skyrim, but have more options to make a more immersive game wouldn't hurt.

Actualy the main point I was trying to show is that in Morrowind the personalization level was huge if compare to Skyrim I like Skyrim, but have more options to make a more immersive game wouldn't hurt.

I have to agree with you TC. Since when was dumbing things down an improvement? Skyrim seems to do a lot of things right, but also does a lot of things wrong.

Except that each option increases the development budget by a significant factor. To reduce it, you now have to make cuts from elsewhere.

Budget isn't magic.

Want medium armor? Fine, you lose out on several heavy and light options.
Want spears? There goes warhammers.
Unarmed? Now there's less time to spend developing other weapon types. Pick something you want gone from both one-handed and two-handed. How about all blocking without a shield? And there's only one power attack now.

Oh, and for everything more bugs ship. Everywhere. Unarmed doesn't mean just unarmed bugs. Unarmed means you get quest and one-handed bugs because the QA and coders looking and fixing those other bugs spent time on Unarmed as well.

Its one of the big things this game is missing. I can't even consider Skyrim part of TES series anymore =\.

Unfortunately that is what everyone is doing. I think the game is awesome. The perk system is great, varied, you can make a character exactly how you want it to be. People are just tuned to look at the negative..instead of working with whats been given to them, they focus on what could be better or whats missing. No game is ever enough anymore.

Couldn't they just cut on useless stuff like the 3d map and 3d item rotation?

Besides, their budget is absolutely massive.

There's a big difference between streamlining and "dumbing down". Skyrim is not guilty of the latter in the slightest.

They could cut on those. There's no way they would cut just on those. 3D item rotation would save what exactly? It's not going to save your art team having to make 3D models for armor and weapons. Unless you think people are going to be fine looking at sprites. It'll save some coding. It'd save some testing. Artists could take shortcuts in their 3D models. Maybe. Depending on how else they're used. Design team would get saved nothing.

Massive is not infinite. Budget is X. X = X. X != X+Y

Excuse me? The ridiculous combat system in MW is not tied to the skill system that this guy so misses? The fact that you make ridiculously overpowered nuke spells and enchantments has nothing to do with the perceived complexity of MW?

Get over it. MW was not that good and the specific "complexity" being talked about was one of its biggest detriments.

I absolutely do. Here's what I miss.

Factions
- the volume and type of factions for each character type
- skill level required for additional progression
- consequences for joining one over the other
- quest progressions that offered a sense of completion and took longer than a night

Gear
- armor variety, more than light or heavy
- being able to wear armor and clothes on top of one another
- the ability to make pointless weapons of healing or calming
- weapon variety

Skills
- Mysticism
- Skills for each weapon. Because one is adept with a longsword does not make them adept with a dagger.
- Being able to actively practice speechcraft and personality based skills
- Being able to create your own spells
- Being able to cast spells with a weapon in your hand
- Open lock spells

But there are additions I welcome and improvements I appreciate

Combat
- it's visceral and rewarding. There's nothing like impaling a necromancer who's been pounding icebolts at you for 10 minutes
- dual wielding weapons and magic
- having your hands be a flamethrower
- really cool spells effects besides touch and range
- Dragon Shouts

Skills
- light spells are in alteration. finally.
- turn undead is in restoration
- wards and wall spells
- the perk system, makes planning feel more important

Gear
- visually, the gear is more appealing
- being able to craft more gear
- being able to improve gear

World
- more detailed and beautiful regions. Nothing in any of the other games compares to the moment you reach Blackreach. Absolutely well done.
- there is a sense of history and lore in the game, passed down from game to game. The subtle lore drops peak my interest.

Fair enough, but it seems to me Skyrim is heavily lacking on some core RPG elements while it's fine when it comes to the amount of tiny details that a good RPG don't really need.



Their budget should be big enough for some features of the series not to regress. Or atleast it surely appears to be big enough for that considering the massive succes of previous Bethesda games.



The OP is talking about different types of armour, spells, the ability to make your own spells, different types of weapons, etc.
All this has little to do with Morrowind's crappy combat system, besides, Oblivion managed to incorporate many of these elements just fine with a combat system similar to Skyrim's.

For the record; I don't even like Morrowind that much, I don't think it's an insanely good game. But this doesn't mean I just shut my eyes, put my fingers in my ears and scream LALALALALALA to drown out the sound of Morrowind fans making perfectly valid points.

I dind't say I dislike Skyrim at all, I do like and the improvement they have made are great, the perk system is great, I don't miss the skill progression of Morrowind, but two things I can't forgive bestheda and that is the creation of your on spell and the wear and tear of equipament, well let's just say I always love to have to worry about my sword to broken down, like in Diablo, to give a more hardcoe experience. It would be nice if they take the best of the past titles and improve. I will not discuss budget because we all know that a good game will be expensive, and Skyrim was expensive to make.

This is a rather silly excuse and I would be very surprised if anybody from Bethesda actually confirmed this.

Sorry people you are stuck with Morrowind for the rest of your life. No other RPG will ever be good enough to even gaze upon Morrowind's feces, let alone be "almost as good".

Well perhaps complexity of factions is good example what Skyrim need.
Quest lines are too short, there is no actual ranks and requirements, consequences can be better, certain factions give great feeling of rush and unfinished work.

atm. hardcoe doesn't go too well with all the glitches currently ingame. Like stepping on a bone and breaking ur spine.. or having a giant bug you 100 feet into the air.

Yeah I miss all this, there things you wrote that I've forgot about, definite this does a more immersive and pesonalized game experience.

Am I the only person that's noticing people here seem to think more content = better complexity?

Skyrim has less, but what it has it's far more in-depth than what Morrowind offered. If anything, Skyrim is the more complex game.

Please elaborate. Skyrim seems pretty shallow to me when it comes to key RPG features. (Such as questing and having multiple options so your character doesn't feel forced.)