I had done just about every quest in FO3 at the 40 hour mark. I still have quite a few quests I haven't done so far in NV and I am at the 46 hour mark now.

well i also dont get your point. do you rush through everything? do you even read the dialogues?

there are conflicts in ruines all around the mojave wastelands, where well armored raiders are hiding, and if im low on amor piercing bullets, im [censored]. it already happend that i died and had to reload 10 times, not because i cant play this game, but this is so different to fallout 3. the fighting system grew so awesome. its a pleasure.

Although I generally like the game I agree with the OP that FONV doesn't have a lot of replay value. The world is big enough but there is hardly any reason to explore it and there are too many fetch quests which simply serve as filler material. On the other hand, I think that the main story is very well written but it's probably not a good enough reason to replay the game and I can't really see spending anywhere near as many hours in this game as I normally expect to spend in a pure sandbox.

That also really depends on what you did BESIDES the quests. If you explored next to nothing in fallout 3 and did only side quests and it took you 40 hours, and you explored for 20 hours in new vegas and did only side quests and it took you 46 hours then you have still spent more time on sid quests in fallout 3 than in fallout new vegas. And keep in mind that I was talking about exploring in general not as much about side quests.

I agree.

I'm not really sure what to say to those who are able to blow through this game so quickly. It's an argument/complaint I've heard applied to a lot of other games in the past (including Oblivion and FO3) and I think it's just a matter of style of play. It would just about have to be. I got this game on release day and have put in over http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i181/rainmagick/DSCF2978.jpg. In that time, I've reached http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i181/rainmagick/DSCF2974.jpg.

The thing is, I'm not exactly creeping along from place to place. Sure, I spent most of my early levels sneaking around Radscorpions, Deathclaws and Cazadors in order to keep from getting smacked around like a red headed stepchild, but I didn't drag my heels either. My point, I guess, is that I'm a pretty average player moving along through the game at an average pace and I figure I will most definitely end up poring a few hundred hours per character in to this game. That is, once the crash factor is fixed. :whistling:

For me, the replay value is extremely high. With my first play through, I've chosen to ally with the NCR and will probably end up going against Mr. House. I'm sure most of us have noticed that by making these kinds of choices, some quests are shut down because it goes against other factions. I'm rather looking forward to going back through and taking on quests from other sides and seeing what develops.

One of the best things about games like FNV is that you get out of it exactly what you put in to it. For example, I carried on through the main quest line (off and on) up until I got warnings that my actions would bring me in to conflict with other factions. So, I decided to back off and work on Boomer, NCR and BoS quests. After that, again once the crashing problem is patched, I plan to go ahead and go directly against other factions with whom I've remained neutral all this time. Otherwise, wandering around exploring and looking for unique weapons (without asking or searching on-line or in a guide) and items ... gathering materials and crafting ... searching out stuff connected to the Wild Wasteland trait and so forth takes up plenty of time.

As for all the unimportant map markers, I have a feeling a lot of them are there purely as fast travel points. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the way some of the mountain ranges are laid out makes getting to some points a little frustrating? I mean "frustrating" in a good way. I like having to go this way or that to get around and there have been times when I've come across an abandoned shack that gave me a marker where I just thought, "whew!" This has been especially true with the way the game has been crashing on me every few hours.

Anyway, pardon the length of this post. It's more or less for some of those like Pie Guy who might be a little worried that they won't get their money's worth. For those who have already sailed through the game and are done, then you're done. It's hard to imagine that you've actually done everything but who am I to say? It's sort of a shame that you won't get as much immersion and enjoyment out of the game as I will. On the upside, though, it was fun while it lasted, right?

I've noticed an .... it's hard to put my finger on .... emptiness? There certainly seems to be no lack of locations looking at my map and I'm having a ball walking around (I walk, do not run, everyhwere), but as others said, I think many of the locations lack any real depth. I'm not sure if a little cul de sac in a canyon with two coyotes is going to be a quest place, but if it's not, then really, does it need a map marker? Well it does if it's going to look like there's a lot of deep content instead of a muddy green pool with no significance that gets pinned to your map.

Just getting map markers is not my idea of exploring. Actually having areas to find and then explore is exploring. Part of this feeling of emptiness is based on two other issues: Lack of "dungeons" and a seeming HUGE lack of encounters. In DC there was an above ground and an underground. Sure the subways and multi-level buildings weren't my favorite areas to go through, but there was a lot more to explore. And those areas? Yeah, there were things in them. Like, living things, unlike about 75% of my walking time and time spent outside or going in abandoned shacks.

Right now I'm enjoying a beautiful walk from 188 outpost to New Vegas. I'm not enjoying the fact that I've reached the outskirts, only found one enterable building in a spread out sprawl and nothing, nothing, no one, no bandits, stray dogs, nothing in these outskirts at all except for a Repconn robot that is patrolling the headquarters. Now, please don't tell me "Duh, it's the desert wasteland, of course there's no one around!" because yes I've considered this and if this was the official idea, then I think it's a failed idea. This is not a multiplayer game. If you're going to give me a huge playable world with no one in it and not allow multiplayer than it's going to feel rather shallow and very empty and thusly, boring.


Now all that said, let me say that despite the above, I really AM enjoying the game. There could be improvements though yes. Eseentially I wasnted to back up the OP in saying "yeah, I get that same empty content feeling" and I'm not fooled by meaningless map markers and I'm not excited for another playthrough (even though I have many hours to go yet for this character). The quests I've enjoyed, the story so far I like, the characters I like, but the wasteland on its own is missing something.

I also need to mention that some of the emptiness might have to do with spawning issues, and I've kept this in mind. There has been once or twice where it seems creatures should have spawned but didn't, or even despawned.

My two cents.

You problaby missed this post then:

I'll explain my playstyle:

I don't rush through the game at all, that is not how I played fallout 3 and it is not how I play fallout new vegas but seeing that I'm a fallout 3 veteran (sort of) I do know 90% of game mechanics. The first ten hours I spent learning the few new game mechanics and learning the setting. I don't skip dialogue, except for when I want to trade then I always skip the usual "sure here's what I got" or something like that but if someone actually has to say something I don't skip it. Also by exploring I mean looking in every single corner and crevice and looking inside every single footlocker/locker/metal box/ammunition box etc.

I don't leave a building or cave or vault unless I've looked everywhere and I am positive I have everything I want. However I don't stretch everything out just to 'have played more hours'. I'm always doing something whether it'd be a quest, exploring an area or going back to town to trade and drop some stuff off. I don't aimlessly wander around looking at every side of a mountain to make sure I haven't missed anything because if there isn't one of those empty triangles there won't be anything. (especially since a dead brahmin with some very minor loot next to it already gets a location marker) Also I don't gamble or stuff like that. I've played a few games of caravan and I've played slots once but that's it, in my opinion the gambling is a useless and stupid addition to the game but that's not what I'm talking about here. Also I'm coming across as very negative about new vegas here, but I'm only talking about the things I don't like here. I've said it before and I'll say it once again, I absolutely love fallout new vegas and everything there is to it besides the exploration and some little things like gambling (I don't like the gambling mainly because that's my personal opinion not because it's improperly done.)

I'm 28 hours into the game, I'm on level 10, and I haven't even come close to discovering maybe 1/4 of the locations, I'm barely started on the main quest, and obviously tons of wasteland I haven't wandered around in.

It's definitely a case of YMMV, though it's interesting that you were able to spend so much time in FO3 (which is about what I spent) but yet not as much in F:NV.

OP might be right.

There are certain things e.g. which make difference. In FO3 about 97% of working computers could be hacked, and there was something there. It was either locking a door/hatch, etc. or it had some completely meaningless story. Sometimes these stories would include multiple computers, sometimes even bigger picture around the map. In NW there simply is not these "meaningless" computers, which lacks immersion big time. If the computer didn't have anything it was broken in FO3, in NW computer seems to be intact but you cannot interact with it.

Same goes to places around NW. Seems that you found a new place on map and kind of are expecting that there would be quest etc., but then there's nothing major there. Or the place feels "empty" in some funny way.

You cannot put your finger on it, but there's something small lacking in "things to do" in NW. I cannot say what it is, but I completely know what OP means.

I'm still loving NW, but I think FO3 just left me a feeling that there was so much to do, that NW kind of is lacking...somehow.

Interesting, looks like there's a 'Fallout 3 hardcoe' fanbase developing that hold FO3 over NV. That's fine. Can't please everyone.

History does indeed repeat itself. When Fallout 2 came out, the Fallout 1 hardcoe ragged on it just like this. They even used the same reasons. Crazy, huh?

They decided to leave dungeons out of the game (sure there are a few, but they have strangled the dungeon crawling aspect of fallout (or fallout 3)) so I'd expect to have a replacement of that on the ground, however there's about the same amount of time to be spent on the above ground as on the above ground in fallout 3. So basically you have the above and the underground in fallout 3 and fallout new vegas has the same above ground but no underground. And then there's all the BS locations that are just there to fill up the map, as an other example there is a location called cottonwood cove overlook. It's six housed ALL of them boarded up. Why make a location with JUST boarded up houses? There's is nothing to do or explore there it's just filler material. And while not every location is like this, there aren't really locations to explore. That is what I'm dissapointed about and the reason for this thread. I'll give a summary of locations in fallout new vegas:

Locations that is owned by a faction like NCR or Caesar's legion, there is nothing to explore here only people to talk to and quest givers.

Empty filler locations, these are locations that I've mentioned several times before now examples: cottonwood cove, searchlight airport, abandoned shack, dead brahmin (that was not the actual name but it sums up what there was to be found)

Explorable locations, this is where the problem lies for me in fallout 3 80% of the locations were infact explorable locations like DC. (DC is not a single location I know but 99% of the locations in DC were explorable locations) And almost every single location in the wasteland was an explorable location. While about 10 - 15% was empty filler location. Since fallout 3 didn't have factions (or barely) there wasn't much else to have than explorable locations, however in new vegas the game is so filled with factions EVERYWHERE that almost everything is faction location then there are some empty filler locations and there are very few explorable locations. And those few explorable locations are very VERY bland, example: the sunset sarsaparilla factory in comparison to the nuka cola factory (if you've been to both locations you'll know what I mean.) And since they also took away dungeon crawling for about 95% you are left with almost nothing to explore. Instead the game focuses more on the role-playing game aspect, which is in my book definitely something positive. I didn't make this clear in my first post. However besides the 20 big quests and the 30 small but enjoyable quests, the rest of the quests are also quite bland. Filler quests like go fetch this item are used ALOT in new vegas. Now if you take away exploring you better make up for it with a huge amount of very big quests. They did this to a certain extent but not enough in my opinion.

And also, I have not rushed through this game I can assure you, as I have said a few times before now. I have played fallout 3 for a few hundred hours and I plan to do so with new vegas even though the exploration part is gone (or almost gone). I am also NOT done with this game yet, it's just that I've played ONLY 30 hours (or 35) and I'm getting the feeling I'm just about done. Even though I don't skip through dialogue, always talk more with npc's than is necessary for the quest and search through buildings extensively.

I call shenanigans.

I actually played Fallout NV for 35 hours or so before I even reached new vegas, I constantly backtrack to see if I missed something and ofcourse to sell things. I do however feel as if there are too many monsters/npc's in F:NV compared to the distance between each location, I mean no matter where you look there will always be an npc or a building. There were never any times where I would just wander off in some odd direction pondering if there would actually be something out there or not.

I was somewhat shocked when I reached vegas, I had thought that it was bigger, and with less checkpoints on the strip.

Perhaps it is just me, but when I first checked the map on my pip-boy my first thought was that this was a smaller map than fallout 3.

IDK about the rest of you... but with the way games are being made today, i'm excited there are single player games that I can get 40 hours out of...

Id disagree with that "partially". There are some vast empty areas off to the east I think it is between hoover and cottonwood, and even south of that, that are vast lands of space, with few mobs, and some locations to unlock (including dungeons, though they are small like the rest of the game)

One thing I try to keep in mind is Obsidian did make the game not Beth. Open worlds is what Beth does, and they are great at it. Try not to hold Obsidian to the same standard since this is (I think) their first real open world game. I can clearly see where their structured game approach shines with the story and where they aren't so strong. Overall I enjoyed NV a lot but agree with the OP and a lot of other posters here. For a first crack at creating an open world game though Obsidian made a superb effort. I still prefer FO3 but that doesn't take anything away from NV.

I'm not far into the game, but this is what I noticed already. I kept thinking last night "Where's the Moira in this game?". There just doesn't seem to be the interesting, odd characters like her, Nathan, Mr. Burke, Moriarity, Jericho etc... Plus the voice acting is really bland - they just sound like normal people you'd meet on the street in your home town. I loved fighting Raiders in FO3 just for the hilarious taunts and cursing. FO NV just doesn't have the same quality voice actors. Hopefully the character of the NPCs will get more interesting as I go along.

You are kinda right, they failed at NV, I completed the Main Quest in 3hours and i was really dissapointed about the factions. You could only join the faction for the main quest like less side quests and hired gun.etc If their Patches and DLC arent going to be worth playing, and if they dont do something.. then i wont be buying bethesda and obisidian games more, i wasted my 60$ into a game that looks more like a mayor DLC they dissapointed me:(

I apologize for the slightly misleading thread title, I am not done yet after 30 or even 40 hours. It just really seems I will be done in a couple of hours. (around 50 I'd say) Whilst in fallout 3 I easily put a hundred into a character. Also I can recall either bethesda or obsidian saying that the map would be the same size but that there would be more things to do in new vegas. The map is the same size but you can't access a big part of it and I don't believe there is more to do than in fallout 3 I just don't believe with how it looks like right now. So I feel mislead and I am dissapointed that the exploration part is gone for 90%. And that in my opinion there isn't enough to replace the fact that the exploration is gone, as some people have mentioned you can't find those little things like in fallout 3 where you could find out about a secret stash behind the refridgerator (spelling?) which contained a recipe for mirelurk cakes. And all the background information about locations you could get in fallout 3 from notes and terminals was insane. And I loved every second of it. Now the exploration is gone and it is replaced by a bigger roleplaying aspect, wonderful I'd say I like both exploration and the rpg aspect however they didn't have to take away the exploration almost completely. And even if they did, they would need a better rpg aspect I'd say. They could easily add all the background information into the quests, they chose not to and even though some quests do offer background information and immersion it is not enough in my opinion.

I agree with theust in that I am happy that there are even games that I can get 40 hours of play out of. It makes you REALLY appreciate those rare gems like FO3 that, for the same $50, just give you an IMMENSE amount of things to do and hours and hours of gameplay.

So, having played many hours into FO:NV myself, I must agree with the OP in that that are very few things of substance to do in FO:NV compared to FO3. I remember playing FO3, getting to a new location of the map and thinking, god, how WELL they fleshed this area out! The detail! This game is massive! While, when playing FO:NV, I often feel, "hmm, this was a wasted opportunity... there was more they could have done here".

But at the end of the day we have to keep in mind the vastly disparate resources at the disposal of both companies: Bethesda is a monolithic game company with over a hundred people working on their games and many more people working on game world design than Obsidian has. It is only natural that Obsidian did not make a game with as much world to explore as FO3 - they just can't compete with Bethesda's resources. But they have made a valiant attempt to make up for it with faction stuff, more (?) quests, and additional gameplay features like ammo creation, which make gameplay deeper.

But, unfortunately, I think it has to be said that, for those whose favorite feature of FO3 was the vast gameworld waiting to be explored, there is going to be disappointment with FO:NV. Probably something that just has to be accepted.

I agree with the OP here there are a slew of areas that are uninspired, empty, and disappointing. How many places have you been out side of the narrow line of quest locations that have nothing but boarded up buildings, or just plain bland empty desert? There is a town north of good springs with a half dozen really hard to kill bad guys and six or seven buildings. I found three ammo cans and a crate here. all of the buildings were space filler with no way to enter them.

In red rock canyon there are ten or twelve tents with wooden doors that are taking up space but are boarded up ( Tents with wooden doors. Please! )

I concede that the quests are decent, even fun at times but when it comes to exploration it really needs help. I can't say the game is short since I am no where near done playing, but if I spend twenty hours looking for the out of the way areas and all I find is filler or empty spaces with names, I feel let down and frustrated. Especially if I had to find a way to overcome half a dozed cazadors to get to the empty building with an ammo can and a skill magazine near it. Hell if you think about it, had the devs of Fallout 3 named every camping trailer and sewer grate, there would have been twice as many places to find. There would be so many map markers that the map would be covered with them.

As for adding mods to extend the game, well right now there aren't any. House mods and content tweaks don't count as ways to extend the game, or make up for totally wasted space. The tout that there is more content is a lie, or at least a stretching of the truth. As I see it, a big map and over a hundred boringly empty unexplorable areas doesn't really count.

Just saying. *shrugs*

I'm only 40 hrs into the game, but I can see what people are saying and perhaps its about what we all expected to get out of the new game.

One of the things I loved about FO3 was the exploration which to me felt a lot more rewarding than Vegas (so far this is, I don't know what the game has in store for me...) but I realised I would have had a lot more 'good stuff' in FO3 to show for my 40hrs compared to Vegas (bobbleheads, unique items, (permanent) skill books, schematics, mini nukes etc). This is just a first impression though based on 40 hrs of exploring and early quests.

Once I plough on with the main quest and reduce the time I put into exploring (& killing big criters!) I'm expecting to enjoy a different aspect of gameplay with the factions & gambling etc that FO3 doesn't offer.

Hopefully it's a win win situation

There are way too many useless locations with map markers. What's the point of having a map marker for a building you can't even go in? and if you can go in it there's nothing interesting inside it. The map is a lot smaller than FO3. That's one reason they added unclimbable hills and invisible walls. I was able to glitch my way past some of the invisible walls and you really see how small the map is if you're able to do that. Fallout NV is not really open it's linear.

Check the old FWE threads, I was there, I played FWE. N.V plays better, thats what I think.

I played FWE and MMM along with E.V.E, as well as many texture packs. I had lots of extra stores as well added in. Like Lings finer things.

hardcoe in N.V is pretty balanced, there is enough food and water. Its about the same really. To be honest I never liked the hunger/thirst and sleep part of FWE and think N.V got it better.

I was playing FWE well before 5.0

You must be playing on very easy TC or something near that because I refuse to believe you have almost completely experienced everything the game has to offer in 30-40 hours

I am currently at 42 hours and am only level THIRTEEN. I have not even entered the strip yet! I have done less than 1/4th of the in game quests!

With that said I haven't been wasting time either, I've been questing, hunting, scavenging constantly. I have probably seen like 1/4 of the game or around there and spend all my time on the move, exploring. I also play on very hard and hardcoe.

This is by FAR the largest RPG I have ever played in 12 years of being a hardcoe gamer(as in I play way too many video games) and is also of a extremely high quality(content wise.. not bug wise)

I am not even NEARLY finished or bored with the game. I will easily put 500+ hours into this game if not more. I will probably invest a good 150-200 hours just on this one character.

So at the end of the day guys the lesson is don't be like TC and power rush the entire game on easy mode and expect to get more than 30-40 hours out of it. Play it on very hard+hardcoe for a challenging, rewarding and lasting experience. You can still play it on easy or even very easy if you like, just don't rush the experience. Savor it.

Fallout: New Vegas is not meant to be played and beaten, it is meant to be experienced.