I doubt they make a layered system to work with only one outfit, simple common sense makes that clear.

Judging by what we seen, clothes work like 3/NV, aka a set neck down while armour layers on top with a more advance choices, including armour pieces that covers individual arms and legs.

I'm sure you will have your standard base clothes that you can layer armor over. I would imagine anything from the radiation suit to merc cuiser outfit(not sure if that is what it will be called in FO4 but you get the idea) would all be able to have armor thrown over it. Just a guess though.

EDIT: Basically what remmus said lol

Layers.

I figure we can wear base outfits and put the armor over those. For instance: the raiders in the vids seem to be wearing a dark pair of pants and a shirt with their junk armor over that.

I'm looking forward to how it works & its a welcome addition to the game. When Todd mentioned the layered armored system at E3 all I could think was... Cool!

No, armor will almost certainly go over clothes. From the looks of it some (but maybe not all) clothes will be "base" outfits, like the Vault jumpsuit, the tuxedo, or the dress, and armor can layer over that. Some might go over the armor though. Like that space/diving suit; is that clothes or armor? Or a coat like Preston Garveys; is he wearing that over armor? Is it separate from his outfit? That's the stuff I'm wondering about.

I wonder if they'll axe stats on armor then.

It seems weird to get something as substantial as a perk rank from wearing armor.

Maybe special bonuses? But that feels even more odd with the greater importance of each stat.

Example, I'm wearing a business suit under my metal armor that gives a bonus to charisma. At that point it just feels like a "stat stick", to steal a wow term.

I figure for they keep stats on armor it will be percentages like X% harder to detect while sneaking, or something like that

Exactly.

Example... uh... armor is like onions! [

Onions have layers. Armor has layers...

You get it?

They both have layers.

So what you're saying is there's going to be a friendly super mutant commenting on our layers, and how he also has layers?

I think they have layers too.

The super mutant may not be the one with the problem, okay?

It's the wasteland that seems to have a problem with super mutants!

People take one look at them and go

"Aargh! Help! Run! A big stupid ugly super mutant!"

They judge them before they even know them - that's why they are better off somewhere else...

That would actually be an amazing Easter egg.

His name is Shreek, so as to avoid copyright.

He dislikes Dogmeat, especially after the operation that allows vocal synthesis.

"Yeah, he talks. It's getting him to shut up that's the trick."

Looking forward to seeing how layered armor translates into body slots.

Fallout NV mods have a pretty good system for what hides what. Bethesda may have done something similar.

I really really hope the new Creation Kit hits in January - and that Nifscope can handle the changes.

I wish Beth implements the armor mechanics of Morrowind with its different slots. Oblivion was the game that started with the "pajamas" one piece armor. What a way to downgrade creativity and customization. Although I do recall Beth giving an excuse as to why they did it and how it was better for the "performance" of the game.

Ohh god no, Morrowind had, by miles, the most poorly made armor system of nearly any RPG ever.

I don't know since I haven't played too many rpg besides TES but for my taste it's WAY better than the sorry ass "pajamas" mechanics that Beth has implemented since Oblivion.

No, it really wasn't.

Morrowind's armor system was broken, beyond repair.
-The sheer number of armor pieces made getting high damage resistance incredibly easy, making getting full sets pointless, and making the actual value of individual armor pieces worthless.
-The high number of armor pieces, not to mention clothes and jewelry, also meant stacking enchants was stupidly easy, destroying any game balance since you could become godlike via enchants without difficutly.
-The large number of armor pieces also made making full armor sets unfeasible in most cases, so player armor was often a weird mishmash of various pieces. The lack of sets would also make things like many of Skyrim's armor perks, such rely on full sets to work, not doable, limiting total gameplay mechanics.

Morrowind's armor system was really only good if you wanted to play barbie doll dress up.

In terms of actual RPG mechanics however, its pretty bad, which is why basically no other RPG made has ever used such a system, and instead of gone helm + body + feet + hands like Oblivion and Skyrim do. This is true of RPGs going back before Baldur's Gate. No one uses Morrowind style armor systems because they aren't balanced in the slightest.

Fallout 3 and NV needed even less armor pieces because they are scifi RPGs, so the number of +5 sword damage type enchants, which are fairly common in fantasy RPG, is very low in comparison, allowing the devs to just slap something onto a single suit + helm.

Yes, it was unbalanced depending on how you played the game. The problem here is not that having different armor/clothing slots is "bad" but the way it was implemented. Morrowind had many ways to break the game. It gave you even the chance to become god-like specially with levitation that many loved despite being OP. But that is what I liked about MW: it gave me the opportunity to be godlike or not; it gave me options. Some of the issues you addressed are really taste related because unlike you, I like mis and match armor pieces. I sometimes looked - like someone said back in the day, like a Christmas tree. I looked like an individual with my own "look".

Furthermore, the main reason Beth changed armor slot mechanics was because Oblivion had many more cool detailed armor than MW and doing every piece individually like in MW would have destroyed the performance of the game not to mention the insane extra work that was needed. It was not really so much because of the issues you have stated. Besides, did having "pajamas", one-slot armor/clothing make Oblivion, Skyrim, FO3 a balanced game?

Eh, the matching armor -perks in Skyrim were really lame concept. It discourages customization. Also, Skyrim's armor system didn't fix the balance-issues.

Morrowind's armor system was good conceptually exactly because it was Barbie-doll dress up which allowed mixing of different pieces.

fawkes is love fawkes is life

lol, Morrowind's system was certainly overrated, but it wasn't that bad.

As for stat increases on apparel, it definitely won't be anything like adding ranks to perks. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just extra SPECIAL points - but I'm wondering is if our SPECIAL can go past 10 from chems and apparel this time, though.

Some more about the balance: I think armor, items and such should in the end play a relatively small role compared to player's skills and attributes.


You're laying it a bit thick there.

*Ba-dumm-tish*
I hope so. Getting +2 bonus to a SPECIAL you had at 9 was irritating. At 10 even more so.