Download vs retail

Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:07 am

Not interested in downloading.. limited bandwidth..


+1

That, and when you look at games having multi-gigabite sizes just for one game, imagine how long it takes to get the product even on broadband.

I also don't trust online providers to maintain a product. I have games going back over a decade. It's nice to know I could always put them in and play them again. Online retail does not have to do that, and most all they sell is coded so you can't burn a local copy for safe keeping.
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Tamara Primo
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:05 am

+1

That, and when you look at games having multi-gigabite sizes just for one game, imagine how long it takes to get the product even on broadband.

I also don't trust online providers to maintain a product. I have games going back over a decade. It's nice to know I could always put them in and play them again. Online retail does not have to do that, and most all they sell is coded so you can't burn a local copy for safe keeping.


On a decent connection you're talking a few hours for a game. Unless you live inside gamestop, you're talking a similar time to go buy it, too.

And actually, you *can* burn a backup on most services. Steam, for example, has a backup function that simply produces a file that you can do whatever you want with. GoG doesn't care what you do with your data once you have it. Impulse I believe does something similar to steam. I can go onto steam now, buy Half Life, and be playing it within the hour - can you do that retail?
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Georgia Fullalove
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:24 am

It really depends for me. If I am going to get the limited edition, I will buy a retail version, but if not, I will probably just pick it up on Steam. In the past, I preferred retail versions, but now I'm starting to run out of room for all of those pesky boxes. I see why some people are totally against downloading games. I'm lucky enough to have very fast internet (average download speeds around 40Mb/s,) and have a fairly large bandwidth cap of 250GB/month, so I have no problem with using Steam to buy my games. If I still lived in the countryside, and had to use dial-up, I would be totally against using Steam.
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Claire Jackson
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:35 am

On a decent connection you're talking a few hours for a game. Unless you live inside gamestop, you're talking a similar time to go buy it, too.

And actually, you *can* burn a backup on most services. Steam, for example, has a backup function that simply produces a file that you can do whatever you want with. GoG doesn't care what you do with your data once you have it. Impulse I believe does something similar to steam. I can go onto steam now, buy Half Life, and be playing it within the hour - can you do that retail?


Can download a 5 gig game in about half an hour. Usually less.

I can leave now and get a retail game and be home playing it in 15 mins. It comes with living in a big city. And if I were to go I choose between about 10 places, mabey more (this is for big popular games, like Black Ops. If I were to want to go and find Beautiful Katamari it'd take a bit more than 15 mins to find it, if there are any available at any retailers anymore).

If you install steam and a backup of a steam game you still need the internet connection to play it. You can't play that backup without an internet connecxion.
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Poetic Vice
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:33 am

On a decent connection you're talking a few hours for a game. Unless you live inside gamestop, you're talking a similar time to go buy it, too.

And actually, you *can* burn a backup on most services. Steam, for example, has a backup function that simply produces a file that you can do whatever you want with. GoG doesn't care what you do with your data once you have it. Impulse I believe does something similar to steam. I can go onto steam now, buy Half Life, and be playing it within the hour - can you do that retail?

Actually yes, there's a Game Mania about 30 metres from my place.
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Batricia Alele
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:53 am

Oh how I hate retail games. I've lost 3 copies of diablo 2, one starcraft copy, one oblivion cd, all my total war cd keys which luckily I don't need, one sins of a solar empire cd, one company of heroes cd key, and I'm sure more that I can't remember.

Now all I have to do is download them. They are mine forever, and nothing that comes in the box with the game is worth having anyways.

I agree with this point: just the other day I was trying to install a game, but the DVD was so worn and covered in minute scratches that I had to give up on it. I found myself wishing I just had a digital copy, and that's when I knew the era of DVDs will come to an end sooner or later. Not everyone has that level of access quite yet, but the infrastructure for mass broadband is growing ever wider.

Some food for thought: it's faster to download through broadband than it is to access a floppy disk. CDs (and DVDs) are still a bit faster, but there will eventually come a time when download speeds overtake them too.

It won't be long before even retail games come without manuals.

What do you mean "won't be long" - I haven't seen a half-decent manual in years. :P
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sas
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:47 am

Can download a 5 gig game in about half an hour. Usually less.

I can leave now and get a retail game and be home playing it in 15 mins. It comes with living in a big city. And if I were to go I choose between about 10 places, mabey more (this is for big popular games, like Black Ops. If I were to want to go and find Beautiful Katamari it'd take a bit more than 15 mins to find it, if there are any available at any retailers anymore).

If you install steam and a backup of a steam game you still need the internet connection to play it. You can't play that backup without an internet connecxion.


AND, for those of you with uber download speed....HOW MUCH DO YOU PAY FOR THAT?

Bandwidth IS NOT free. I know what we pay at the office, and our max download speed is 1.5 mbps. So, to have the savings of buying online, how much is it costing you in Internet access fees?

I doubt you really are saving anything in the long haul.
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Austin Suggs
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:09 am

My view on downloading "big" stuff....


Lord of the Rings Online went to a "free + cash shop" model. Just download and go.

So..... I went to Best Buy, next chance I got, to get a cheap copy from them. But, wait, the store's been "improved" and the PC game section is down to a tiny pittance. /sigh

Had to go to Amazon and ordered a copy to be sent by mail. Took a few days.


Yes, I'd rather pay for a game by mail order & have to wait a few days, rather than trying to download a multi-gig game for free.

And this is one that I could have had "free" if I'd just downloaded it.

Actual pay games? There's no question that I'll pick the retail option.


(Comcast cable, in the suburbs of a decent-sized urban area. No, our download speed isn't all that good.)
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Josh Trembly
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:34 am

I like digital on PC. Not so much on my PS3. I just like retail a lot more in general. Less download time, new box smell :D , having the product actually in my hand, etc
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Chris Johnston
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:33 pm

It won't be long before even retail games come without manuals. Not that they're particularly useful these days, usually amounting to control/gameplay rundowns that aren't as effective as their in-game tutorials, but I still like 'em.

I'd actually like to see publishers work to make manuals worthwhile again, rather than do away with them. Throw in some fancy artwork or something. I still like looking through some of my NES/SNES manuals for character, enemy and level descriptions/pictures.


The Street Fighter manuals are really good. Its nice to have character commands in front of you sometimes, or to give to someone who wants to learn to play.

AND, for those of you with uber download speed....HOW MUCH DO YOU PAY FOR THAT?

Bandwidth IS NOT free. I know what we pay at the office, and our max download speed is 1.5 mbps. So, to have the savings of buying online, how much is it costing you in Internet access fees?

I doubt you really are saving anything in the long haul.


Its covered under rent/residence fee.

Half an hour is being generous too..

I <3 school intranet. No limit either lolololo.. well I've never heard of anyone getting billed extra for downloads. (Can't upload from residence though)

When not in residence download is approx 10 mbps, 512kbps upload, 60 gb limit for ~ $50. Its saying on the website that to download a 700mb movie it would take approx 9 mins 43 seconds. I know on campus from a residence unit you can download a 700mb movie in a couple mins, sometimes if your lucky less than 2 mins, that's after afternoon times, provided servers are good.

Its going to svck not having residence internet.
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Jay Baby
 
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Post » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Actually yes, there's a Game Mania about 30 metres from my place.

My point was less can you do it in that timeframe, but more can you find a copy of half life there? Who's going to stock a 10 year old PC game when that space could be used for another copy of gears of halo: modern madden?
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Everardo Montano
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:37 am

I prefer physical copies over digital because with a digital copy you know you will always own the game if you take care of it. With digital, the service will eventually go down and you will never be able to download content you paid for again. That may take years to happen but it still can, and I usually avoid digital as much as I can for this reason.
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DeeD
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:07 am

I prefer physical copies over digital because with a digital copy you know you will always own the game if you take care of it. With digital, the service will eventually go down and you will never be able to download content you paid for again. That may take years to happen but it still can, and I usually avoid digital as much as I can for this reason.

The question is, which will wear out first? I've had some of my DVDs stop working because of a few minor scratches, and though I don't take obsessively-good care of them I would say my use is pretty average for gamers. Not to mention minor mishaps like losing CD keys or the disks themselves - it's much harder to misplace your Steam account. :P

Besides, if I want a physical copy I can just make a backup of the Steam files, and keep remaking that copy if the disk gets damaged. Can't do that with a retail disk.
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roxxii lenaghan
 
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Post » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:49 pm

My point was less can you do it in that timeframe, but more can you find a copy of half life there? Who's going to stock a 10 year old PC game when that space could be used for another copy of gears of halo: modern madden?

You are right about that. I dislike digital distribution in general, but I'm glad that there is GOG for anything I can't find a disk of anymore.
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Connie Thomas
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:35 am

AND, for those of you with uber download speed....HOW MUCH DO YOU PAY FOR THAT?

Bandwidth IS NOT free. I know what we pay at the office, and our max download speed is 1.5 mbps. So, to have the savings of buying online, how much is it costing you in Internet access fees?

I doubt you really are saving anything in the long haul.

We pay around $100-$125 a month for the internet, cable TV and phone package. The internet speed is rated at 30mbps down/ 5mbps up.
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sarah taylor
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:19 am

The question is, which will wear out first? I've had some of my DVDs stop working because of a few minor scratches, and though I don't take obsessively-good care of them I would say my use is pretty average for gamers. Not to mention minor mishaps like losing CD keys or the disks themselves - it's much harder to misplace your Steam account. :P

Besides, if I want a physical copy I can just make a backup of the Steam files, and keep remaking that copy if the disk gets damaged. Can't do that with a retail disk.

Well I don't need to worry as much about scratches since I buy 95% of my games on PS3. Which uses blu ray discs with scratch resistant coating. I have PS3 launch titles that I have played a lot that look brand new. I also have bought over 30 used games and only 1 of them was scratched(by looks of it from a car key). PS3 games are so hard to scratch that you would literally have to scratch it yourself for it to happen. Can you guarantee that steam will be around in 10-20 years? Online services come and go and your content would go with it. Backing up is a option for you but its not for PS3 and 360 gamers, so any content we buy now might be rendered useless in 10 - 20 years. Just in case you say, "you probably won't even play it in 10 - 20 years anyway." Thats untrue, as I type I have my old NES hooked up and I am in the middle of playing Super Mario Bros 3. I never stop playing old games and I would like the security of knowing that I will actually have access to my old games in future. With digital content, the service could go down anytime. While I could have my content saved on my hard drive when it happens, if I ever accidently delete it. It would be gone for ever.
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mollypop
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:16 am

I HATE digital, I like keeping a physical copy, it dosent take up space on my console either. If games went all digital I would proabablly stop playing.
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BRIANNA
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:38 am

The question is, which will wear out first? I've had some of my DVDs stop working because of a few minor scratches, and though I don't take obsessively-good care of them I would say my use is pretty average for gamers. Not to mention minor mishaps like losing CD keys or the disks themselves - it's much harder to misplace your Steam account. :P



Never scratched or lost a CD/DVD. I have forgotten my Steam password, though - I didn't use it much for the first year or two, and had the password set to "remember" so I never had to type it in. :)



-------
(Another reason I like having the physical media - I have a small WinXP partition on my iMac. I uninstall & reinstall games constantly. And even if I had a large HD, I still uninstall & reinstall gamesas games - I like doing a clean install for each different set of mods that I try. Downloading a game once is bad enough. But the dozen or more times that I've installed Oblivion, for example? Bleh.)


---

Digital download is great for some things - Minecraft, for instance, would never have had a chance if it had needed to get a publisher and stocked in stores. Same for a lot of other small, "indie" games. But it's not the be-all, end-all.
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Cameron Garrod
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:40 pm

I HATE digital, I like keeping a physical copy, it dosent take up space on my console either. If games went all digital I would proabablly stop playing.

I wouldn't go as far as to stop playing I would just transition to a full fledged PC gamers because at least they can back up the files they purchased.
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Kelly Tomlinson
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:15 am

Well I don't need to worry as much about scratches since I buy 95% of my games on PS3. Which uses blu ray discs with scratch resistant coating. I have PS3 launch titles that I have played a lot that look brand new. I also have bought over 30 used games and only 1 of them was scratched(by looks of it from a car key). PS3 games are so hard to scratch that you would literally have to scratch it yourself for it to happen. Can you guarantee that steam will be around in 10-20 years? Online services come and go and your content would go with it. Backing up is a option for you but its not for PS3 and 360 gamers, so any content we buy now might be rendered useless in 10 - 20 years. Just in case you say, "you probably won't even play it in 10 - 20 years anyway." Thats untrue, as I type I have my old NES hooked up and I am in the middle of playing Super Mario Bros 3. I never stop playing old games and I would like the security of knowing that I will actually have access to my old games in future. With digital content, the service could go down anytime. While I could have my content saved on my hard drive when it happens, if I ever accidently delete it. It would be gone for ever.

I would never say "you won't even play it in 10 - 20 years" since I too have my old Famicom and SNES and play them occasionally. Not to mention the fact that older games tend to have better gameplay and more timeless design, but that's for a different discussion altogether... :D

However, in the case of my SNES, my cartridges have actually degraded over time since the tiny batteries that power the savegames have died long ago - just a fact of the technology used at the time. I can certainly still play the games and even replace the batteries, but the fact is that technology moves on and obsolescence is only around the corner: if something can do it cheaper, faster, more securely, and using less volume, then that's the direction development will take.

It's not that time yet for digital distribution, though it's getting closer. When CDs came along I had friends who insisted on keeping multiple floppy disks just in case CDs turned out to be a quick fad, and for years I resisted switching to DVDs because my VHS was cheaper and did everything I needed. But the future has a way of creeping up on you, and sooner or later you either have to give in or be left behind. With so little retail space devoted to PC games, it's no wonder that PC gaming tends to take the lead in switching to an all-digital medium.

As for Steam going down eventually, I imagine there will come a time at some point, yes, but with enormous sign-posts that give their many millions of customers an opportunity to download backups before the service goes down for good. But let's look at it in perspective: Valve is more profitable per head than Google or Microsoft, and none of the companies seem in any danger of changing their business plans one iota. The likelihood of Steam collapsing after the investment Valve have made is less probable than Microsoft abandoning Windows forever. So again I wonder which will last longer: Valve and their Steam, or my increasingly-battered DVDs? (It could be a close race at 50 years or so...)

You do have a point about consoles being better suited for disks, and I think a lot of that also has to do with the "tradition" (for lack of a better word) of having a cartridge you can just plug in and play straight away, which I've always considered the best feature consoles have over PCs. But you have to admit, as a PS3 owner, that there's been a lot of feature creep in consoles in recent years: more downloadable content, demos, promos, trailers, turning consoles ever more into PCs. So the future may be more similar for all gamers after all, regardless of platform.

Never scratched or lost a CD/DVD. I have forgotten my Steam password, though - I didn't use it much for the first year or two, and had the password set to "remember" so I never had to type it in. :)



-------
(Another reason I like having the physical media - I have a small WinXP partition on my iMac. I uninstall & reinstall games constantly. And even if I had a large HD, I still uninstall & reinstall gamesas games - I like doing a clean install for each different set of mods that I try. Downloading a game once is bad enough. But the dozen or more times that I've installed Oblivion, for example? Bleh.)


---

Digital download is great for some things - Minecraft, for instance, would never have had a chance if it had needed to get a publisher and stocked in stores. Same for a lot of other small, "indie" games. But it's not the be-all, end-all.

You're right, digital distribution doesn't do everything for everybody (and, as much as is possible, I feel there should always be an attempt at giving customers a choice.) But here's the thing: gaming isn't for everybody. It's a relatively expensive hobby, requires investment in specific technology, and we've come to take it for granted that everyone has, for example, a permanent supply of electricity. The question then becomes what level and type of technology should be supported (and recommended) - there was a time when games came out on both floppy and CD, in case people had not yet adopted CD drives, but that practice has long since stopped, and no computer (except mine, maybe :P) even has a floppy drive any more. I think we'll see a similar process for digital distribution in the next 20 years - granted, the level of infrastructure is somewhat more demanding (landlines being more costly to upgrade than disk drives) but the principle is the same.

It's true, however, that disks can access where landlines may not. It may be faster to send a DVD to a rural area by post than to download it directly. One of my lecturers at university gave the example of either transporting a truck full of DVDs or downloading through a fibreoptic cable: the truck won, even accounting for heavy traffic. However, for most average users, and for most average applications, it's both faster and simpler to download directly than to proxy through a physical medium - here in England at least postal strikes are more common than power outages. :laugh:

As for the tremendous opportunity it gives to indies to get their games to the public, that alone is reason enough to support a digital medium.
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Marnesia Steele
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:58 am

I would never say "you won't even play it in 10 - 20 years" since I too have my old Famicom and SNES and play them occasionally. Not to mention the fact that older games tend to have better gameplay and more timeless design, but that's for a different discussion altogether... :D

However, in the case of my SNES, my cartridges have actually degraded over time since the tiny batteries that power the savegames have died long ago - just a fact of the technology used at the time. I can certainly still play the games and even replace the batteries, but the fact is that technology moves on and obsolescence is only around the corner: if something can do it cheaper, faster, more securely, and using less volume, then that's the direction development will take.

It's not that time yet for digital distribution, though it's getting closer. When CDs came along I had friends who insisted on keeping multiple floppy disks just in case CDs turned out to be a quick fad, and for years I resisted switching to DVDs because my VHS was cheaper and did everything I needed. But the future has a way of creeping up on you, and sooner or later you either have to give in or be left behind. With so little retail space devoted to PC games, it's no wonder that PC gaming tends to take the lead in switching to an all-digital medium.

As for Steam going down eventually, I imagine there will come a time at some point, yes, but with enormous sign-posts that give their many millions of customers an opportunity to download backups before the service goes down for good. But let's look at it in perspective: Valve is more profitable per head than Google or Microsoft, and none of the companies seem in any danger of changing their business plans one iota. The likelihood of Steam collapsing after the investment Valve have made is less probable than Microsoft abandoning Windows forever. So again I wonder which will last longer: Valve and their Steam, or my increasingly-battered DVDs? (It could be a close race at 50 years or so...)

You do have a point about consoles being better suited for disks, and I think a lot of that also has to do with the "tradition" (for lack of a better word) of having a cartridge you can just plug in and play straight away, which I've always considered the best feature consoles have over PCs. But you have to admit, as a PS3 owner, that there's been a lot of feature creep in consoles in recent years: more downloadable content, demos, promos, trailers, turning consoles ever more into PCs. So the future may be more similar for all gamers after all, regardless of platform.


It's true, digital distribution doesn't do everything for everybody. But here's the thing: gaming isn't for everybody. It's a relatively expensive hobby, and we've come to take it for granted that everyone has, for example, a permanent supply of electricity. The question then becomes what type of technology should be recommended and supported - there was a time when games came out on both floppy and CD, in case people had not yet adopted CD drives, but that practice has long since stopped, and no computer (except mine, maybe :P) even has a floppy drive any more. I think we'll see a similar process for digital distribution in the next 20 years - granted, the level of infrastructure is somewhat more demanding (landlines being more costly to upgrade than disk drives) but the principle is the same.

You are right, however, that disks can access where landlines may not. It may be faster to send a DVD to a rural area by post than to download it directly. One of my lecturers at university gave the example of either transporting a truck full of DVDs or downloading through a fibreoptic cable: the truck won, even accounting for heavy traffic. However, for most average users, and for most average applications, it's both faster and simpler to download directly than to proxy through a physical medium - and, at least here in England, postal strikes are more common than power outages. :laugh:

PS3 games don't scratch as easily as DVDs so I don't need to worry about that. Yes I release that they doing a lot of digital stuff, I only buy old PS1 games that I can't find a real copy of. No matter how profitable Valve is now, you can't say it will be in the exact same state in 10 - 20 years. Things change drastically over the years, I like having the real game because then I know that the company can never take it away from me. Also, I have a huge glass case that I display my game cases in. My basemant literally looks like a video game museum. If all games went Digital I wouldn't be able to add to my exhibit, which would make me a sad panda.
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trisha punch
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:40 pm

You're right, digital distribution doesn't do everything for everybody (and, as much as is possible, I feel there should always be an attempt at giving customers a choice.) But here's the thing: gaming isn't for everybody. It's a relatively expensive hobby, and we've come to take it for granted that everyone has, for example, a permanent supply of electricity. The question then becomes what type of technology should be recommended and supported - there was a time when games came out on both floppy and CD, in case people had not yet adopted CD drives, but that practice has long since stopped, and no computer (except mine, maybe :P) even has a floppy drive any more. I think we'll see a similar process for digital distribution in the next 20 years - granted, the level of infrastructure is somewhat more demanding (landlines being more costly to upgrade than disk drives) but the principle is the same.

It's also true that disks can access where landlines may not. It may be faster to send a DVD to a rural area by post than to download it directly. One of my lecturers at university gave the example of either transporting a truck full of DVDs or downloading through a fibreoptic cable: the truck won, even accounting for heavy traffic. However, for most average users, and for most average applications, it's both faster and simpler to download directly than to proxy through a physical medium - and, at least here in England, postal strikes are more common than power outages. :laugh:



Alas, I'm in the US, land of "regulation = bad; capitalism is the cure for everything!".... we don't have a central broadband plan, we don't have "public utility" rules forcing companies to provide service to places that are off the beaten track, etc, etc, etc. While there are some places where the service is amazing, there's a lot of places where it just isn't. Maybe someday, we'll have a modern broadband system that would make large-scale digital distribution a valid alternative for everyone. But that's not going to be for a LONG time. :sadvaultboy:
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Jerry Jr. Ortiz
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:38 am

I just downloaded Crysis 1
But I still prefer retail games, especially for ones I really love like TES.
I like the box, and any goodies that come with it, especially a map that I can lay out on the bed and examine.

There are two Borders bookstores closing near my house. My guess is because people are getting their info or literature online.
We used to go there to hang out and browse the books, but rarely purchased anything. I used to buy travel books, but now I just get all the info online.

Music, same thing. Used to have vinyl records, with all sorts of artwork inside.

I am afraid that games might go completely this same way. Unless we refuse digital and pay good money for retail.
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Milagros Osorio
 
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Post » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:05 am

We pay around $100-$125 a month for the internet, cable TV and phone package. The internet speed is rated at 30mbps down/ 5mbps up.


I have a similar service, with Internet only, no cable or phone. I think it is around $70-80 /month.

For those of you who prefer retail games, do you feel the same about all software applications in general? Or just games? Do you keep boxes of various software applications, antivirus, utilities, etc., lying around?

To the extent it is possible, I buy all software applications digitally, for example, even Adobe CS5 Master Collection, which was quite expensive. I suppose I simply dislike dealing with storing discs and boxes. I use a number of freeware apps, which I don't believe are even available retail. In a sense, from my perspective, games are just another type of software app. People don;t seem to be worried that Microsoft or Quicken will go out of business, somehow preventing them from downloading their digital copy of MS Word or TurboTax at some point in the future.

I think my acclimatization to buying digital downloads of software in general was what made me more inclined to buy digital downloads of games. Also, I don't own any consoles, and I only started gaming again relatively recently, within the past few years. So I have never bought any physical copies of any games since I had an NES (20-30 years ago).
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:32 pm

For those of you who prefer retail games, do you feel the same about all software applications in general? Or just games? Do you keep boxes of various software applications, antivirus, utilities, etc., lying around?

Just games.
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gemma
 
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