Dqarves

Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:41 am

Ok, we have dwarven weapons and armor. But where are the DWARVES!!??
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Toby Green
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:31 am

Ok, we have dwarven weapons and armor. But where are the DWARVES!!??

Never played Morrowind, eh?
The Dwarves dont exist anymore. They literally went poof and vanished, in what is one of the largest mysteries of Tamerielic history.
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:57 pm

What's a dqarf?
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Miguel
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:24 pm

What's a dqarf?


Imperial misnomer for Dwemer. Kinda like Wood Elfs, High Elves, Dark Elves and Dwarves.
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Yvonne
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:35 am

Ok, we have dwarven weapons and armor. But where are the DWARVES!!??


The Dwarves were atheist technophiles that disappeared off the face of Mundus one day. There were known as Dwemer and weren't your stereotypical growth-stunted, drunken, axe-wielding scottish dwarves. "Dwarves" was simply a nickname given to them by some giants.

For more information on this race please play Morrowind. Or check the http://imperial-library.info for stuff on them if you don't want to play Morrowind. You really should, though.
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Sweets Sweets
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:13 am

The Dwarves were atheist technophiles that disappeared off the face of Mundus one day. There were known as Dwemer and weren't your stereotypical growth-stunted, drunken, axe-wielding scottish dwarves. "Dwarves" was simply a nickname given to them by some giants.

For more information on this race please play Morrowind. Or check the http://imperial-library.info for stuff on them if you don't want to play Morrowind. You really should, though.


I hope he does play "Morrowind" someday.

There are writings that the Dwemer used up their souls in the attempt to create a god, but it seems likely that they failed and are gone, beyond retrieval, except for a lone survivor encountered during the game "Morrowind". AFAIK it's ambiguous whether they succeeded, but to me it looks likely that they failed.
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Jessica Phoenix
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:03 am

Did they? Something has to power the stompy robot after all, though.
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Clea Jamerson
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:28 pm

Numidium was intended as a walking-way into true godhood for the entire Dwemer race - in that it appears to have failed.

Why it failed is hard to answer. Maybe the plan was flawed from the get-go, or maybe someone interfered with something crucial during the Battle of Red Mountain. Maybe the problem wasn't with the Numidium itself but with the Dwemer - if they didn't know when to stop refuting and tried to misinterpret all reality, including themselves, then they could have been in trouble.
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Lauren Denman
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:52 am

For those of us who want instant gratification and don't want the easy answer, I'd be happy to oblige with the cliff-notes. That and I have some time to kill.

The Dwemer (as they called themselves) found a mastery over Tamriel that few have since begun to rival. They achieved this through a blended use of magic-imbued into technology. Alchemy taken to the next logical step, if you will. They weren't invincible by any standard, but they were beginning to figure out how to play around with the very forces that held this world together. It also didn't help that underneath their capital city, they had found the heart of Lorkhan, the god who had created the Mundus and for it, was punished through dismemberment. His body and soul now serves to maintain the Mundus from any destructive influences.

By playing with and studying the heart, the very essence of the god of this world, they managed to make themselves immortal. They had also begun to create a technological god of their own, powered by the heart, that would ascend them beyond this realm into a greater realm. When the Dark Elves (who lived near this place) learned of what the Dwemer were doing, they went to war against them, what we call now the War of the First Council. Their leader, a mer named Nerevar Indoril, managed to make his way to the great chamber where they were constructing this robot-god. Panicked, the Dwarven master enchanter, Kagrenac, the mer who knew the most about how to harness the heart, turned his tools and machines on the heart and... we don't know what he did. But the Dwarves are gone. Perhaps they all did ascend. But what is more likely, is that the Dwarves' souls that they willingly tied to the heart were consumed because not even Kagrenac fully knew what he was doing.
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Svenja Hedrich
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:59 am

From http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/guide.shtml#6

Where did the Dwemer go?

They vanished into thin air, strangely enough.

The problem is, there are many varying accounts of their end. I am going to try and split this section up into to mini sections, the (sometimes conflicting) facts of the Dwemer disappearence, along with the speculations of their disappearance.

The "Facts"

The stage was Vvardenfell, during the Battle at Red Mountain. This was the culmination of the war between the Chimer and the Dwemer. Nerevar was present from the Chimer, as were Alamelexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil. From the Dwemer there was King Dumac and Kagrenac the Shop Foremer. Dagoth Ur from the Dagoth House was there also, as were Nords and Orcs. However, it is unknown exactly what side they were on. The Five Songs of King Wulfharth claims that the Nords and the Orcs were on the side of the Dagoth House, against the Dwemer. However, it also claims that Nerevar fought alongside the Dwemer, and the other Chimer were not present, which is unlikely. In addition, The War of the First Council claims that the Dagoth House was on the side of the Dwemer, and that the Nords and the Orcs fought with them. This, however, is also suspect, since according to Vivec's account, Dagoth Ur fought alongside Nerevar. In the end, while this question is important historically, it is unimportant in regards to the Dwemer.

In some versions of the story, the Dwemer are simply slaughtered and that is their disappearance. This is highly unlikely, as the Rourken Clan, which was across the continent at the time, disappeared at the same time. And one cannot forget that the more reliable stories (Vivec's and the Ashlanders') claim that something much more profane and meaningful happened.

These versions say that the end of the Battle, Nerevar, Dagoth Ur, Kagrenac, and others are in the Heart Chamber. Dumac may have been there and killed, or disabled. In one version Kagrenac, seeing that he is in trouble, takes the tools and walks over to the Heart. The others see him attempt to use the tools on the Heart, and at that moment all of the Dwemer on Tamriel vanish without a trace. His use of the tools was probably supposed to elevate his race to something like Godhood. In other versions, Kagrenac is killed by Dagoth Ur, and Azura shows Nerevar how to use the tools to sever the Dwemer's link with the Heart. "And on the fields, the Tribunal and their armies watched as the Dwemer turned into dust all around them as their stolen immortality was taken away." The question is whether or not the tools were actually used, and whether or not they actually worked.

Speculation

Assuming that the above account of the Dwemer's End is correct, there are several possibilities as to what became of them. I will list the ones that I have thought of (and think are the most likely) here.

Possibility A: The tools worked. Kagrenac successfully used his tools, and possibly The Calling, to take his race and remove them from Mundus, the Mortal Plane. He either turned them into Deities or simply allowed them to move freely in the Outer Realms.

This is possible, but unlikely. If it had happened, then Vivec, who is a God himself, probably wouldn't have said that "I have no sense of them in the timeless divine world outside of mortal time". In addition, for reasons discussed below, I believe that certain Et'Ada would never have allowed the Dwemer to carry out this act of arrogance. Finally, one might think that if the Dwemer had become Gods, we would have heard more about it.

Possibility B: The tools failed. Kagrenac foolishly de-created his race and erased them from Nirn. They were either destroyed entirely or were transfered to somewhere outside of Nirn and died.

This is more likely. The book "The Egg of Time" seems to indicate that there was a debate going on. The book argues that it is safe to tap the power of the Heart, and that the Dwemer who believed that it was a great risk were incorrect. I believe that this kind of "debate" wouldn't have been revealed to us unless tampering with the Heart actually was dangerous, and that something terrible very well may have happened if Kagrenac had tried to use the tools on it. Also, there exists an article entitled Sermon Zero of the Thirty-and-Six-and-Nine Sermons, which was given to us by Jobasha on the official forums. It is highly confusing and likely not considered an official document, but it contains three secret messages which can be deciphered from the text. One of them reads "To the Dwemer and Oblivion belong this treasure and they are there dead".

Possibility C: Kagrenac had no chance to actually use the tools. The split second that he did, Daedra Prince Azura snatched him and all of the other Dwemer from Nirn, and imprisoned them in Oblivion. Alternatively, he did use the tools, but as soon as his race was removed from Mundus, Azura imprisoned them in Oblivion. Or he died before he had the chance, and Azura instructed Nerevar to use the tools to destroy the Dwemer enchantment upon the Heart, making them instantly disappear. Either way, Azura put them in Oblivion and there they may or may not have died.

This, in my opinion, is the most likely of all of the possibilities. As has been discussed elsewhere, the Dwemer doubted the power of the Et'Ada and did not venerate them as the other races did. One specific example of this directly involves Azura- the account contained in Azura and the Box. And one cannot forget the very idea of Numidium, The Brass God. The construct which, according to Divine Metaphysics, was a new God constructed from the power of a "Dead" God, Lorkhan. This is blasphemy in the highest sense of the word, and according to several accounts, Azura did not want it completed.

More importantly, Azura was involved several times in the affairs at Battle of Red Mountain, before and after the war. In The Battle of Red Mountain, it is said that Nerevar went to Holomayan and summoned Azura to receive counsel, and there she told him that the construction of the "New God of the Dwemer should be prevented at all costs". In Nerevar at Red Mountain, Azura instructs Nerevar while in the Heart Chamber to use the tools on the Heart to destroy the Dwemer, which he does (at this moment, according to the legend, the Dwemer simply all vanish). Later, according to both accounts, the Tribunal break their oath to Nerevar and Azura and use the Heart to become Gods. At this time Azura appears and curses the Chimer, turning them into Dunmer "that they might know forever their wicked deeds ". And finally, it might be said that Azura returned her champion Nerevar to Morrowind to once and for all destroy the Heart and its destructive influence, and that this is the story of the Nerevarine.

All of these events show that Azura was an active force in the prevention of the use of the Heart. For whatever reason, she did not want the Heart to be used for profane purposes. Thus, I find it likely that Azura, whether it be to protect some kind of natural order regarding divinity and mortality, to protect the safety of those on Tamriel, or simply as a punishment for the Dwemer arrogance and hubris, imprisoned the Dwemer in Oblivion forever, and there they still exist.

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darnell waddington
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:33 am

Damn copy and paste. Gets me every time.
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Laura-Lee Gerwing
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:16 pm

Their leader, a mer named Nerevar Indoril

I thought he was called Indoril Nerevar. Or does it really matter with House Dunmer? Does anyone really care?
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Guinevere Wood
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:14 am

The Dqarves magically dissapeared. No one knows why.
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Budgie
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:29 am

The Dqarves magically dissapeared. No one knows why.

You say that, yet everyone's pretty certain on why.
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Mimi BC
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:46 pm

You say that, yet everyone's pretty certain on why.

Not really. The basic concept, to a degree. Not the details, though.
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Bird
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:48 am

So the Brass God would be used as a divine skin and the souls of the Dwemer would be used to create it. So that is why they disappeared, because they sacrificed their souls to make their Brass God which they would use to return to the "first brush of Anu-Padomay", and basically be, 'anti-created'. But why would they think that they had to all become one with this Brass God in order to do this, well the answer was right there in front of me. As the Altmeri creation myth states, the Mundus was created as a place where the aspects of the Aspects could reflect on themselves. So to return to the state of the original Aspects of Aurbis, the aspects of Mundus would need to be forced back together into their former shape, or something close to this. So the Dwemer with this in mind, began the creation of the body of their god, the would-be Aspect of Aurbis, with the Heart of the World, the Heart of Lorkhan, as its heart and main power supply. They then planned on combining their entire race with this god in order to anti-create their way back to the Aurbis, their many aspects as Dwemer would be reverted back into godly form as one singular Aspect.

Now Xal states that the souls became Anumidum's metal body, but you ask, why would they do this. Well, this is where the Earthbones that Demnevanni spoke of come into play. Dwemeri metal was no ordinary metal, as Baladas stated, it could defeat time and decay. The Dwemeri souls would become immortal in this state, and at the same time become one to form their god. Kagrenac hit the Heart with the tools during the Battle of Red Mountain and caused this to happen, and the Dwemer disappeared, just as he had intended for them to. But why did the Brass God stay, why wasn't it activated as a god once the Dwemer became one with it. That I do not know. Perhaps it was the Tribunal there that stopped this from occurring, disconnecting the god before it could leave. Perhaps Kagrenac simply didn't see far enough ahead and more than just binding all the Dwemeri souls together to form a god wasn't enough, perhaps reaching this "Eternal I" is more of a personal venture than a collective one as the Dwemer believed. Perhaps it even failed because all of the Dwemeri souls where not sacrificed, there is still one left afterall.


This is pretty detailed. At least compared to most of the history that happened a few hundred years ago.
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Isabel Ruiz
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:19 pm

@NulNul- They also weren't your stereotypical atheist technophiles :intergalactic:

1.
Spoiler
They're excavating the deepest Dwemer-mines for Dwemer-metal so they can make Dwemer-armor to peddle for treatment of leperosy and scurvy. Vivec wrote this


2. They're beyond the devices of the et'ada, the rationale behind their endeavor.
Opinion: Yagrum is the result of their manifestation entering the dream of AE, contracting a divine footprint (corprus) of lunar tones that forces his memory beyond the Numidium's activation to stay subjugated, unable to sift through the cacophony.

Edit: changed phobes to philes
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Marie
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:03 pm

From http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/guide.shtml#6


Vivec would have found them if they were in oblivion. Probably so would have the last surviving dwarf.
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Pixie
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:03 pm

If the Numidium theory is true, why are there Dwemer spirits in ruins like Radac Stungnthumz?
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Miranda Taylor
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:24 am

Even if Mortal spirits stay bound to the Mundus after death, they are still connected to the dream-sleeve. The dream-sleeve strips souls of all identity, thus the spirit of the Dwemer would no longer be that, it would just be a soul, ready for recycling.
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yermom
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:28 am

Even if Mortal spirits stay bound to the Mundus after death, they are still connected to the dream-sleeve. The dream-sleeve strips souls of all identity, thus the spirit of the Dwemer would no longer be that, it would just be a soul, ready for recycling.

And what we learned from Battlespire, souls go bat [censored] crazy when bound to the mortal plan.
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Amy Siebenhaar
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:20 pm

If the Numidium theory is true, why are there Dwemer spirits in ruins like Radac Stungnthumz?

Probably Dwemer that died before the Numidium thing happened.
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Alexander Horton
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:44 pm

But Radac seemed aware of his surroundings and could have a conversation with the player. He even knew some of his past like being a solider.
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:03 pm

But Radac seemed aware of his surroundings and could have a conversation with the player. He even knew some of his past like being a solider.

I find him as a special case to help you advance through the tribunal expansion. But, I guess it could just be said he has quite the willpower. Not all souls have the same mental fortitude or will power to not be driven mad from the coldness of the dream-sleeve.
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jodie
 
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Post » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:01 am

Probably Dwemer that died before the Numidium thing happened.


That's always been my assumption too, maybe they were exempt from the whole disappearing thing due to already being dead at the time or something. I can't claim to completely understand all the mystical equivalent of techno-babble behind the matter, but if not being in the mortal world at the time could stop one dwarf from disappearing, I don't see why being dead couldn't.

I find him as a special case to help you advance through the tribunal expansion. But, I guess it could just be said he has quite the willpower. Not all souls have the same mental fortitude or will power to not be driven mad from the coldness of the dream-sleeve.


That would seem to make sense, while most ghosts encountered in the Elder Scrolls don't seem to be particularly sane or reasonable anymore, I suppose some with exceptionally strong willpower could avoid going crazy.

I have to say, though, I'm glad that Bethesda avoided having Tolkien-esque dwarves in the game, elves are bad enough, we don't need dwarves too. I'm at least glad that while the Elder Scrolls racial selection comes mostly from pretty cliched concepts, it does put some effort into making their stereotypical races different from other people's (like orcs, lizard people and dark elves not being automatically evil, and wood elves being short and even more annoying than elves in other settings.)
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Phillip Hamilton
 
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