Well, within the context of what is happening, the game should be somewhat linear. For instance, I am a warrior, becoming a Grey Warden, and as such, am bound to lead the fight against the Darkspawn and the Blight. There is no way someone in my position would go and roam the countryside looking for bandits to kill, ignoring their duties. Even if it was possible to do this, would it make sense that while I cruised around, the darkspawn sat around and waited for me to fight them? Not really. If I chose to do something else, the world would end. So the decision is actually pretty simple one to make, even tho it is made for you in someways. In Oblivion you can basically do whatever you want to, take as long as you want, and then come back and finish the main quest. Does that really make sense, based on what is supposed to be happening in Oblivion? That time stands still for you?

I know that.

The way Bioware makes games is perfectly valid. In fact I think the games made by Bioware and Bethesda complement each other perfectly: one offers games that limit a player's freedom in order to immerse them in story and character while the other makes games limit story and character in order to give them freedom.

While my preference is for freedom I return to Bioware games on a regular basis, whenever I feel in the mood for a more 'directed' experience. There's a place in my gaming life for both.

Well if Bioware is going to stick with the same horrid control system they have now, I'll pass on any sequels to DA:O. And there's every indication that there will be at least one based on how things ended on my first play through. That piece of crap interface is why I didn't pick up NWN2 when it came out and I'm rather pissed off at myself for not having done better research into DA before rushing out to pick it up.

It isn't just the interface either. The forced linear nature of the entire campaign is annoying to some degree, even though they have a great story to tell. It also suffers badly from console mentality, right down to the [censored] achievements and the fact that you have to play through the game more than once to unlock certain specializations. I'm also rather bored with the whole idea of killing yet more Darkspawn around every corner. There's not even a decent variety of them.

Both games though suffer equally from suspension of the plot if you choose to ignore it. Your world isn't going to come crashing to an end in either one if you decide to venture off on a boatload of side quests. I know, because I've done exactly that, and the Blight only advances across the map at predetermined stages of the game. Much like the invasion of Tamriel. You can go quite far into either game escalating the urgency with which the current rulers of various places want you to defeat your enemies, but in both games if you decide you want to go off and find Treasure X first and spend days doing it, you'll get away with it and nobody in either game will wonder where the hell you've been for the weeks it's supposed to take to do that.

"More directed" is a good way to put it. With DA you are a semi-observer to a story that you can influence the minor details of. Where Oblivion beats it hands down though is that once you've completed that story, you get to range free to go do whatever. DA:O has a point of no return where once you go past it, you're game ends with no possibility of post-game romps. It'll be hard to see a way for Bioware to come up with content extensions intended to be played after the end.

Agreed... if only because "some" possible outcomes . Logistically, though, they have their bases covered -- realms that remain unexplored include the Thedas, Orlais, etc.

I enjoyed DAO quite a bit, but concur with most here in that it's the character work and story that fueled my enjoyment. After a four month break from Oblivion due to computer problems, I was finally able to launch my heavily modded game again last night, and the difference in "feel" between the two games is so astonishing. Despite its strengths, DAO felt like a series of "instances". Oblivion... especially a modded Oblivion... is far more immersive.

I have heard this before... but i have no idea what it means. I think the graphics compare to Mass Effect in a way. the graphics are great. Darkspawn are actually very evil and scary looking if you zoom in to look at them close up. kinda like goblins from OB Some bows look strange but most are cool, especially the drakeskin ones.

The combat and AI system in this game is upseting (badly). Sometimes I feel like auto guided, it's like you are watching a movie with very limited freedom. In fact I don't see big change (a part graphics) in this game with Diablo (released 1996) mechanism.

There will be always gamers who prefer:

1. solo play, not a party with badly educated kids.

2. exclusively first person view that is not efficient in MMOs,

3. sophisticated combat with combos and not usual for MMOs click-and-pick (unfortunately DA:O uses this UI type, that I find ridiculous for a modern off-line game). We'll see how the former will be implemented in coming T.E.R.A.

4. organization, and not the chaos that is present so called massive battles. Stone age fights were more organized than massive SvS and PvPs. There were few unsuccessful attempts to introduce some kind of formations and training/battle planning in MMOs.

5. mature content (IMHO the best MMORPG for advlts at the moment is Requiem Bloodymare).

6. and the last but not the least ? "maddability" (we are on the modding Forum). There are few moddable MMOs (legal issues, technical difficulties) e.g. a very "specific" game Second Life.

I agree with everything you say in your post but with one small proviso: Oblivion is not exclusively in first person. Some of us play Oblivion exclusively in third person.

Well, I was saying that:

"There will be always gamers who prefer ? exclusively first person view".

d.h. others might prefer to play "exclusively" in the third person view, others like to switch back and forth.

DA:O does not have this option, many MMOs either.

I was not talking about Oblivion at all because it has both options. I wanted to say that MMOs ("online worlds") will NOT draw all gamers away from off-line games like OB or DA:O. Both game types have their fans.

The combat AI is miles ahead of what it used to be in Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. In fact, in nearly every fight, I let 3 of the 4 party members do whatever their AI wants and it almost always turns out just fine. Only reason I don't let the 4th one do as it pleases is because all AI suspends when you're controlling #4.

while i like DA to be honest i had more fun with the witcher. im about ten hours into the game and its getting a bit repetitive now. also a little nitpick is that in DA everyone "except a few kids" just stands around and does nothing all day long. as goofy as bethesdas npcs looked in oblivion at least the walked around and looked somewhat busy. DA almost feels like a single player MMO.

balance seems to be an issue as well. on normal mod im forced to constantly heal a particular [censored] who keeps getting himself in trouble all the time even after i buffed up his constitution. however, on easy mod its not even a challenge especially after the patch that upped health and damage by the allies. overall id give the game an 8 out of 10. good story, good combat however repetitive its waaay better than NWN2 lousy combat engine, and good but not great graphics.

i hope bethesda is learning from the fun in fallout 3 and other games that let you have companions and incorporate a decent companion system in TES 5

Oblvion is unique and infinitely expandable I feel, DAO is a fine game and I am looking forward to studying it, but it has none of the mod potential of either Morrowind which is another fine game that has an infinite shelf life and OB. We will be here forever.

I played DAO for some time now and here are my thoughts:

• Game play is VERY Linear. The story, the places you can go, just about everything is so confined unlike Oblivion where you have considerable freedom.
  
• Replay value is low because much of the story regardless of which character you choose is pretty much the same. The 2nd character I attempted to play, I kept pressing escape key to quickly scroll through the endless repetitive dialogue.
  
• Though there is much hype about the tactics feature and how it adds strategic depth, I found it was very flawed and cumbersome.

Fact is, if CM partners was 'done up' so it was more sophisticated and more engaging story driven quests were created then Oblivion would beat DAO on every point.

I am looking forward to getting back to the beautiful graphics of Oblivion and most of all to be able to jump around! (something you cannot do in DAO).

One more thing I forgot to mention... the NPCs in DAO, they just stand around waiting to be picked off... often you hit one from a distance and the others near him do nothing... if you are attacked in a city or village, no guards assist, none of the NPC react... on this front, Oblivion simply is incredible...

Indeed. But Oblivion has something quite close, such as Viconia and Saerilith, both of which are superb mods.

I would say Dragon Age: Origin's best point is the voice acting.

I think that we are all actually TES fanatics, we like TES lore, ambient, setting and all and that we'll just prefer TES over other games forever. We're doomed.

Maybe number of us will change their mind now that Bethesda and that scribe decided to burn our favourite island in Northeastern Tamriel. :shakehead:

Can you blame us? Just look at a city in DAO. It is nearly dead, static, NPC just stand there same spots almost all the time. Credit to Oblivion developers to make their cities 'alive'.

I have no idea, I haven't played DAO.
Morrowind also has static towns, but I can't help myself anyway - I love it.

for my case I'm one of the most freedom game players, if I found something positive about DAO over TESV i would said them; I'm just astonished about the rating 9.5 given by gamespot to this game, usually I take a great credibility on this site, but sound this time I was just fooled by the rating.
Other sign from me, to date I haven't played FA III (not anything released by Bethesda I will play it, even if it's recent).

hmmm .. DAO has got a much better story/quests than oblivion ...

Am I the only person who hated DA:O's story?

I was promised a story encompassing the Grey Wardens, where I would save the world from invading Darkspawn and Demons. I was expecting twisting plots surrounding the rise of the Darkspawn, with epic battlefields and heroic moments.

Instead, 95% of the game is spent visiting each of the major powers in Ferelden (Humans at Redcliff, Mages at the Tower, Dwarves in Orzammar, and Elves in the Brecillian Forest) and babysitting them. Sorting out their MASSIVELY coincidental problems, which had nothing to do with the currently invading Darkspawn, and yet each problem threatened the existence of each of these four powers. I had to sort them out, because they were too retarded to sort themselves out. After I had fixed all of their unbelievable problems (so unblievable that they were all happening at the same time that it was completely immersion-breaking) I finally spent the last 5% of the game fighting off the Darkspawn. Even if there hadn't been a blight threatening the world, the whole of Ferelden would have been destroyed from these problems anyway.

Am I missing something? Did I play a different game to you guys? Because that story doesn't seem impressive to me. Taken to a book publisher it would be laughed out of the door. I'm not saying Oblivion's was an example of a great story either... but I just don't understand where people are coming from when they say "You played DA:O yet? How awesome is that game!? Such a great story!" One day the world of games will return to epic storylines like FF6, and mysterious mind-screwing plots like that of Vagrant Story. Until then, we're left with monotonous, repetetive drivel like Dragon Age it seems.

The DAO story 'borrows' many themes from other movies/stories.

Duncan is loosely based on Highlander character Ramirez

Zevran, carbon copy of Antonio Banderas's character in the movie Assassins (though this DAO character is bisixual)

The Blight, dwarves, mages, elves in one big battle - page out of Lord of the Rings

I think also, because of the gay themes found through out, DAO has garnered fierce loyalty and support from certain groups - and so when some say they like the story, they could mean they like the provocative gay themes/love scenes etc.

Personally, I found the story okay, but nothing great. My big problem with DAO was the lack of freedom. Even something like jumping is not permitted so as to keep you within a confined space.

I think an enhanced CM Partners along with more engaging stories would make Oblivion better than DAO on every level.
Oh and the graphics in DAO are awful and no comparison to Oblivion.

Hey, Jade Empire is in no way substandard!

That's funny, because where do you think Bioware got all the material? Yep, that's right, DA is a book series that existed prior to the game. So apparently the publisher didn't laugh anyone out the door. Quite the opposite. They approved wholeheartedly. Anyone who thinks Bioware cooked up all that rich history behind the game needs to take a closer look at the source material to know they basically slapped a restrictive linear game on top of a pile of existing stuff.

@Aricil: Of those listed, Gothic 3 and Two Worlds are vastly superior games to DA:O just for the relative freedom with which you can play them.

Slapped a restrictive linear game on top of a pile of existing stuff sounds about right. But that 'pile of existing stuff' is exactly that. A pile, an unorganized mess. It doesn't flow like a story should. There's no progression. It's go to one of these four places, fix their mess. Go to one of the other three places, fix their mess. Go to one of the other.... YAWN. I couldn't believe how bad this story was. Mainly because I couldn't believe it.

Yes, I know it's fantasy, it's not meant to be believable. But a good writer is able to suspend the reader's (or player's) disbelief. Dragon Age doesn't. The story is 100% immerssion breaking. The history and depth to the world is great - no faults there, even if it is heavily borrowed and unoriginal despite their claims in the dev videos. But a linear rpg like DA:O should always have an engrossing storyline. This game had one of the worst storylines i've ever come across, in any form of media. No exaggeration.

Seriously: If someone here honestly believes DA:O had a great, hell even good, storyline, then please explain to me why. I really would love to see someone justify why the story of this game is so amazing, because I genuinely can't see it, and I feel like I must be missing something. And I mean story here, not how great the voice acting is, or the depth of the world and its history, but this game's storyline. I honestly want to be proved wrong here, and look at this game with a sudden sense of realization, so that I can play it again and ENJOY it! I need to justify this ?40 as well spent, and so far I just can't.




@Destiny of an Emperor: You're right, it is all heavily borrowed. I remember watching one of the dev videos, where they specifically stated at the start that DA:O was a whole new world that didn't follow any of the fantasy stereotypes. It was going to be a whole new fantasy experience! So they went on to explain that the Dwarves in DA:O live underground and are great with architecture, that Elves typically love their forests, that dragons are rare, that humans use a lot of woodwork in their structures.... :facepalm:

I think the Blight is more similar to the Aiel Wastes in The Wheel of Time series rather than LOTR though. And I have a friend who is a massive fan of Dragonlance, who informed me that the idea of Templars constantly watching the Mages in case they go rogue is taken directly from that series. A shame, because I thought that was one of the only original aspects that DA:O had...

Don't tell me Oblivion has a great, plot-twist filled storyline.
It's "Get the amulet, find son, lose the amulet, find the amulet", as far as I know.