Dragons, and other questions. : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:11 pm

So, what is the story with dragons in the Elder Scrolls? Is Akatosh the only one, or are there others in lands say Akavir, and Daggerfall?

Argonians. Are there different breeds of Argonians lore wise, or does Beth choose to just change there designs through out the series?

The temple. What exactly happened to them after Morrowind? Did they completly break apart, the Tribunal basically killed off? Or, are they hiding the secrets of Almalexia, claiming Sotha Sil is still in his city?

Werewolves. Ok, this is somthing that has my attention deeply. Did the werewolves get wiped out somtime between Morrowind and Oblivion? Has Hircine called his hounds back to his realm? Or perhaps they hibernate, waiting for somthing, or somone.

Answers are greatly appreciated.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:12 pm

Dragons - Akatosh only embodies a dragon, he is not really one of the species. Afair there are no more dragons on Tamriel (or only a few), but there should still be some in Akavir or something. i really cant recall offhand.
Argonians - I think there are different breeds, but this may be my modder talking. It would make sense though, so its Truth by me.
Temple - there is a lot of discord. presumably they lost tons of followers with the death of their gods, but not all, since they can still claim that ALMSIVI were divine and therefore still exist after death.
Warewolfs - game mechanics.

a bit brief, but hope it helped.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:41 pm

Ty ty. Been wondering about those for a long time now.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:07 pm

Regarding Argonians, I don't believe there are distinct labeled species, but I recall reading that how humanoid an Argonian looks depends on how many times they 'licked the Hist'.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:19 pm

So, what is the story with dragons in the Elder Scrolls? Is Akatosh the only one, or are there others in lands say Akavir, and Daggerfall?

Dragons:

There was that one at the Battle of Hunding Bay fighting for the Empire, look for Redguard intro on youtube.

I remember reading something in the forums about dragons and the battlespire... some relation? Did the Empire have some sort of dragon breeding complex over there? or was it just silly talk (or silly me?)? Someone help me out on this one.

Dragons in Akavir... oh yeah! the ka po tun, right? the dragon-tiger folk, the dragons where all eaten by the Tsaesci if i remember correctly. But "eating" has different meanings in akavir. Anyway, there?s only one tiger who managed to morph into a dragon and is now the Big Daddy of the kapotun. "first kill all the snakes, and we?ll take it from there" or something like that... sounds like a tough dude.

Sorry for the poor grammar, and try reading Misterious Akavir... It should help you out a bit

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:49 pm

I remember reading something in the forums about dragons and the battlespire... some relation? Did the Empire have some sort of dragon breeding complex over there? or was it just silly talk (or silly me?)? Someone help me out on this one.

Presumably some of the Battlemages used them as mounts (and for transportation to and from the Battlespire).

http://www.imperial-library.info/bsbooks/starlover_log.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/bestiaries/bestiarybattlespire.shtml#Dragon,%20Great%20Wyrm

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:29 pm

Presumably some of the Battlemages used them as mounts (and for transportation to and from the Battlespire).

http://www.imperial-library.info/bsbooks/starlover_log.shtml
http://www.imperial-library.info/bestiaries/bestiarybattlespire.shtml#Dragon,%20Great%20Wyrm

Thanks a lot!!! I never played Battlespire, or any TES game before Morrowind for that matter. But since i watched that redguard cinematic i always wondered what the hell hapenned to dragons in tamriel

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:13 pm

Thanks a lot!!! I never played Battlespire, or any TES game before Morrowind for that matter. But since i watched that redguard cinematic i always wondered what the hell hapenned to dragons in tamriel

They're still there. The problem is that Dragons are big. So they need allot of polygons to look good, which means there will be less left for the environment so they can only appear in low poly environments like the indoors and such. Which takes their awe away. Hit detection is another problem, the normal approach is to use several hit boxes but that might lead to silly stuff such as being able to kill a dragon by stabbing his tail.

Neither is an insurmountable problem but they do require a significant amount of time to do right.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:13 am

Bear in mind, I'm playing devil's advocate for the sake of conversation...

What if Dragons are god? In the Ehnofey sense, I mean. What if when some of the et'ada became mortal, they took draconic forms instead of elven ones. Maybe the mer and men are descendents, but perhaps the reason no one sees dragons is that they are actually gods. Gods can appear however they want, and we know from imperial doctrine that Aka is both a dragon and an old guy. Maybe they have both forms. Perhaps what our eyes see as a dragon is nothing more than aedric divinity made manifest.
It would explain why Aka is a dragon. It would also explain MK's last little forum fandango with the "scaled manes" of the Nordic pantheon. And, finally, it would explain what Vehk meant when he told Cyruss the restless that he had slain Tiber Septim, when actually he slew Tiber's dragon (read: avatar of Tiber's divinity).

I dunno. Just something I thought about while eating dinner lastnight. Figured I'd post it here, since we're already talking about dragons, and I don't want it taken too seriously.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:37 pm

Bear in mind, I'm playing devil's advocate for the sake of conversation...

What if Dragons are god? In the Ehnofey sense, I mean. What if when some of the et'ada became mortal, they took draconic forms instead of elven ones. Maybe the mer and men are descendents, but perhaps the reason no one sees dragons is that they are actually gods. Gods can appear however they want, and we know from imperial doctrine that Aka is both a dragon and an old guy. Maybe they have both forms. Perhaps what our eyes see as a dragon is nothing more than aedric divinity made manifest.
It would explain why Aka is a dragon. It would also explain MK's last little forum fandango with the "scaled manes" of the Nordic pantheon. And, finally, it would explain what Vehk meant when he told Cyruss the restless that he had slain Tiber Septim, when actually he slew Tiber's dragon (read: avatar of Tiber's divinity).

I dunno. Just something I thought about while eating dinner lastnight. Figured I'd post it here, since we're already talking about dragons, and I don't want it taken too seriously.

Just because we see him as a dragon and an old guy doesnt mean he "is" that, it?s just the physical form he chooses to take. Or the way the mortal eye can fathom the divinity in the physical plane.

And we know the aedra dont belong to any specific race. Even after they sacrificed themselves to form Nirn.

On the other hand, snakes seems to make a lot of appearances in the tales about creation (Yokuda and Tsaesci, right?). And is very interesting idea to develop

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:20 pm

Ha ha... I like the way you think there really nice.

I wonder which et'Ada/Aedra/Daedra would then be the handsome Tosh Raka.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:45 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Image%3a%44aggerfallDragonling.gif

Well, its only a baby, but its there.

I recall reading somewhere that dragons may have the capacity to transform into humans, to evade detection. I'm fairly sure it wasn't canonical, but its a possibility, right? Any number of them could hide in an ayleid ruin if they took human form.

I also thought they were sentient beings, not just scaly monsters? If that is the case, I can't see them submitting to being bred or ridden around like a horse.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:04 am

Ha ha... I like the way you think there really nice.

I wonder which et'Ada/Aedra/Daedra would then be the handsome Tosh Raka.

A mantled Akatosh?

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Yeah that's what I has thought about him, but what if it's not?

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:32 pm

I recall reading somewhere that dragons may have the capacity to transform into humans, to evade detection. I'm fairly sure it wasn't canonical, but its a possibility, right? Any number of them could hide in an ayleid ruin if they took human form.

The quote you're wanting is http://www.imperial-library.info/dogate/es_weaseling.shtml

"Just a little "in the know" for those who are curious about dragons. They DO exist, just not everywhere. Even in Cyrodil, where the majority of dragons may be, they are scarcely seen. Could it be they can shapeshift and use human form?

And another nice quote while we're on the topic of dragons:

All of the dragons didnt die. They have their own means of remaining "hidden" from Tamriel's populace. Whether its shapeshifting, hiding deep in the mountains or jungles, or even in very protective custody of secret Imperial strongholds, they do exist.

The reason the dragons left Morrowind was because of the food chain being broken. Cliffracers were in such great numbers that they food became scarce for the dragons, so they moved on. Even if they stuck around and killed the cliffracers off, the food would still be at a shortage.

The dragon from Redguard fell easily for many reasons. Cyrus was more than just a Redguard. Playing the game will explain much about his abilities. Also, no matter big the dragon was, he was confined in a rather tight space. Try wrestling with someone in a box the size of a microwave. Plus, Naffy wasnt the smartest of dragons, as working for Lord Richton should say that much alone. His greed got the better of him. Not such a noble dragon.

Also, as Battlespire hinted, there is (or was) an elite Imperial dragon mount guard (TES Dragoons). Search for a document relaying a wing mounted guard's final words about his mount, PaprDragn.

This quote also gives a name to the Battlespire's dragon-riders...

» Sun May 29, 2011 12:00 am

Alright, that sums up dragons

Now, I am curious about another thing. Ok, so when Martin "sacrificed" himself, that was supposed to close all the ways into Oblivon correct? Well, what about the gateway into Sheogoraths realm? That is another part of Oblivion I beleive.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:14 am

Alright, that sums up dragons

Now, I am curious about another thing. Ok, so when Martin "sacrificed" himself, that was supposed to close all the ways into Oblivon correct? Well, what about the gateway into Sheogoraths realm? That is another part of Oblivion I beleive.

It's less that the ways into Oblivion are closed, and rather that the barriers that were in place before returned; i.e.: Daedra can't come into Nirn unassisted, and they can't stay permanently. Conjurors can still summon Daedra, and mortals can still travel to Oblivion. In SI itself, Haskil even specifically mentions that the gate violates none of the rules.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:30 pm

The above poster speaks truth. No Daedra were comeing out of the Strange Door on their own; thus, everything was cool.

Notice that companions you meet in the Shivering Isles never follow you through the portal.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:35 pm

It's less that the ways into Oblivion are closed, and rather that the barriers that were in place before returned; i.e.: Daedra can't come into Nirn unassisted, and they can't stay permanently. Conjurors can still summon Daedra, and mortals can still travel to Oblivion. In SI itself, Haskil even specifically mentions that the gate violates none of the rules.

The gate is just an invitation to SI for those who walk on Nirn. You aren't forced to go in, daedra can't pop right out, and a mortal of Nirn can leave if they want.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:33 pm

So, what is the story with dragons in the Elder Scrolls? Is Akatosh the only one, or are there others in lands say Akavir, and Daggerfall?

There is only one Dragon in Akavir. The Tsaesci (snake people) tried to eat them all. They managed to eat all the red dragons but the black dragons fled to the then Po'Tun, After that a war was through between the tiger peopel and the snake people. The black dragons all died in this war. But since then the Tiger people have tried ascending to become dragons, onle Tosh Raka has succeeded and has renamed his empire Ka'Po'Tun, it's said that he is the largest dragon in existence.

Although account vary, some say the snakes enslaved the red dragons, others say they ate them, so the jurys out on that one and its open to speculation.

There is also a story some where (i cant find it) which told us of a warrior who fled from akaviri forces and met a dragon, that dragon then tried to eat him. He managed to get atop of the dragon and get his sword under a scale, he then threatened to kill it if it didnt help him destroy the invading army. Which it did. So this dragon may still exist or it may be a myth, not entirely sure.