Dragons are BAD for the Elder Scrolls! : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:44 pm

Of course not, they have their own people. Why spend extra money getting someone else to do it for them?

Well that's certainly not true. About the only team that would be involved with the dragons would be the Art and Animation people, with some input from the AI team. Why would someone working on the interface, or quest design, have to stop what they were doing in order to work on dragons? They're just another creature that will populate the game. Do you think that Oblivion lost out on something just because they decided to create a Nether Lich to battle you, or Spider Daedra? Your reasoning just doesn't make any sense.

Ok people lets get open minded here. If there is a quest in the game related to dragons, that took away from another possibly better well thought out quest. How about dungeons that have to be big enough to accommodate dragons. How about all of the dialogue written and recorded related to dragons. How about an all new system called dragon shouts that involve going to different places and discovering words for the shout, or the gameplay side of actually using the shout. I know you are aware that the shouts does different things like slow down time, which has to be incorporated and balanced in the game. How about the scripting of dragons attacking towns, or the Npc AI reactions to the attack from the dragon. I'm sure the list goes on and on. I'm not talking directly about the dragons, I'm talking about all of the content in the game that has to do with dragons.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:11 am

is this supposed to be satirical? becuase saying dragons are bad is like saying that the main quest is bad, and if you want them to get rid of the main aspect of the game just to add some element like climbing then why not just play assassins creed

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:42 am

If they had the same amount of employees and resources when they made oblivion then yes it would be a bad idea. Not now though. They are much bigger and they have developed much better compression techniques so that more voice acting is available along side other additions. Don't worry so much

Thank you, I appreciate the positive points.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:07 am

You'll thank us later :-)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:33 am

You'll thank us later :-)

Hahaha nice!

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:09 pm

You'll thank us later :-)

were you just trying to get him to comment?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:46 am

The dragons are one of the features of the game. And since we don't even know exactly what's going to be in the game, we don't even know if they'll be leaving anything out. You may find that everything you ever dreamed of is already in place, and that it is your perfect game even with the dragons.

True, this is only possibilities and not anything factual.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:10 pm

Funny, Be open minded, but you're assuming the game has made compromises for dragons? Maybe they didn't, you should be open minded.

Of course, none of this matters, because this topic was created just to troll.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:31 am

Ok people lets get open minded here. If there is a quest in the game related to dragons, that took away from another possibly better well thought out quest. How about dungeons that have to be big enough to accommodate dragons. How about all of the dialogue written and recorded related to dragons. How about an all new system called dragon shouts that involve going to different places and discovering words for the shout, or the gameplay side of actually using the shout. I know you are aware that the shouts does different things like slow down time, which has to be incorporated and balanced in the game. How about the scripting of dragons attacking towns, or the Npc AI reactions to the attack from the dragon. I'm sure the list goes on and on. I'm not talking directly about the dragons, I'm talking about all of the content in the game that has to do with dragons.

Which is basically the entire main concept/theme/prophecy of the game. Once the Alduin returning concept was settled on, everything else in the game took second place to the dragons, the shouts, the finding the words to the shouts, learning the shouts, what the shouts do and all the rest.

The Dark Brotherhood, thieves' guild, mages/mages's guild, fighter's guild, fetch and carry quests, all became secondary to the quests involving dragons.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:57 am

........lol. When i saw the topic title, i just *HAD* to see this. Dude, dragons are perfectly lore-fitting, and they won't take any resources away. They have a separate team working on them, get your facts straight <_<

Never said these were facts :mellow:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:18 am

Never said these were facts :mellow:

Thunderjunk said you'll thank them later. He's a developer. I wouldn't worry.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:22 am

Ok people lets get open minded here. If there is a quest in the game related to dragons, that took away from another possibly better well thought out quest. How about dungeons that have to be big enough to accommodate dragons. How about all of the dialogue written and recorded related to dragons. How about an all new system called dragon shouts that involve going to different places and discovering words for the shout, or the gameplay side of actually using the shout. I know you are aware that the shouts does different things like slow down time, which has to be incorporated and balanced in the game. How about the scripting of dragons attacking towns, or the Npc AI reactions to the attack from the dragon. I'm sure the list goes on and on. I'm not talking directly about the dragons, I'm talking about all of the content in the game that has to do with dragons.

These are the notes of the story outline from the Bethesda site:

The Empire of Tamriel is on the edge. The High King of Skyrim has been murdered. Alliances form as claims to the throne are made. In the midst of this conflict, a far more dangerous, ancient evil is awakened. Dragons, long lost to the passages of the Elder Scrolls, have returned to Tamriel. The future of Skyrim, even the Empire itself, hangs in the balance as they wait for the prophesized Dragonborn to come; a hero born with the power of The Voice, and the only one who can stand amongst the dragons.

Now tell me how they're supposed to tell a story about dragons if they don't include them in the game? That's like saying Oblivion shouldn't have included the Oblivion plane and all the Daedra foes, but should have included some minor gameplay feature instead. Dragons are the story, there wouldn't even be a game without them. They're nothing less than the central focus of Skyrim, just like the Daedra were the central focus of Oblivion.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:57 am

Maybe a climbing system to take thieves to a different level, jumping from rooftop to rooftop or climbing assassins creed style to break into someones two story house at night.

How could this stuff be more important than the excitement that Dragons could bring to the game.

For all we know the crime system could be as horrid as the Oblivion system, where there is no real way to profit from being a thief unless you join that joke of a guild. Hell your crimes follow you across the continent whether you were seen or not. Psychic merchants won't buy stolen goods, although there is no way they could possibly know you stole the crap, etc.

We could at least hope they fixed the other stuff before adding things most of the people who play tes games could care less about. The best way I can see them fixing the AI is to dump the psychic guards and merchants.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:33 pm

Yep, 6 to be exact. That is 6% of the labor devoted to the main enemy in the game.

...And honestly, who are you to say how one aspect of development will affect others? Are you a triple A game developer posting here in your spare time? Even if you were you would not be able to comment on any one aspect without knowing about all the aspects. At this point unless you actually work at Bethesda your in no position to criticize development choices.

Calmmmmm Dowwwwnnnn. I mean really. How can I critique something that I haven't experience. This is not a critique so I'm not sure why you even took it that way. If you payed attention you would see I used things like "But I do feel that they might of took" which a simple opinion nothing more. Also I say "a lot of features that could of been" "could" not that it is. You basically contradicted yourself because evidently you commented on one aspect without knowing about all the aspects of my post.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:19 am

What? So you want them to remove dragons-a main part of the story-from the game? That's like saying "The Mythic Dawn was bad for Oblivion, they should have focused their time on something else."

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:22 am

Ok people lets get open minded here. If there is a quest in the game related to dragons, that took away from another possibly better well thought out quest. How about dungeons that have to be big enough to accommodate dragons. How about all of the dialogue written and recorded related to dragons. How about an all new system called dragon shouts that involve going to different places and discovering words for the shout, or the gameplay side of actually using the shout. I know you are aware that the shouts does different things like slow down time, which has to be incorporated and balanced in the game. How about the scripting of dragons attacking towns, or the Npc AI reactions to the attack from the dragon. I'm sure the list goes on and on. I'm not talking directly about the dragons, I'm talking about all of the content in the game that has to do with dragons.

Wow.... there are mere SCRAPS of information out on Skyrim. All we know for sure are the features involving dragons, radiant story, and the basic premise of leveling up mixed with a few tidbits of less important information. You are fear mongering not on what is fact, but what is speculation. You don't even know to what degree the other parts of the game were expanded to. Maybe the simple tweak to stealth is all they needed because they made improvements to game design within dungeons, and towns. Maybe combat magnetism will insure you don't have to worry about hitting friendly targets. And im not saying you shouldn't speculate on the game, but to be so worried about dragons when we don't even have a good amount of information seems a tad overdramatic.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:52 pm

And how do you know that the focus on dragons is overwhelming, have you been sitting in on their design meetings? As already mentioned, the team working on the dragons is quite small compared to the whole project.

That's just a glitch that they have plenty of time to fix. I'm sure there's lots of little bugs in the game here and there, it's far from being completed. There's absolutely no reason to fear that working on some new creature is going to screw up something as important as character AI.

Yes it might have screwed up their attention to detail as explained. I dont know anything but of the details on the game is dominated by dragon related material. This was meant to be a simple post on a simple thought, thats it. Never said anything was factual at all, these are just things than can occur.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:18 pm

Move along.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:48 am

But...have you seen the trailer? That's dynamic gameplay! That's an in-game fight with a dragon!

Honestly, I'd buy the game just for that even if it wasn't Skyrim.

And as already said, don't jump to conclusions, you haven't played the game yet! It looks like they're putting a ton of time and effort into everything else, you're just assuming dragons are stealing the show because most of the info has been about them, because the dragons are the major selling point.

This ^^

Full realized vicious advanced none scripted smart AI animated dragons, awesome combat physics (every strike lands and reacts) in a brand new engine ran TES open world game that is improved on from Oblivion in nearly every way. The game does not release until November, you will have no recollection of you even complaining about dragons right now after all the other info is released. .

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:31 am

I'm of the mind that if they didn't spend the time and resources on dragons, they just spend it on a different antagonist, primary threat, etc. Like in Oblivion, there really weren't any crazy cool, epic, legendary beasts for the most part, but they obviously spent the time they could have worked on those working on the Oblivion gates and different planes of Oblivion. No matter how you slice it, the primary quest, antagonist, protagonist, and their respective "minions" will get the most time and resources. Whether that's dragons, demons, giant moths from hell, pokemon or what doesn't matter in the end.

At least they spent the time on something totally awesome, legendary, and important to the lore.

Also, please note that the team is significantly bigger this time around, and they had a separate team for making the dragons and as such I doubt much of the game suffered horribly from it.

:laugh: lol at your joke. But yeah that does make sense, I appreciate the positive insight.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:16 pm

You'll thank us later :-)

Can we thank you now?

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:12 am

This is not a critique so I'm not sure why you even took it that way.

You started out by making the statement:

Dragons are BAD for the Elder Scrolls!

That makes this a critique, no matter how diplomatic you may try to be about it. And it's not a very good critique considering that dragons are the main feature of the overall storyline. Removing them would be like removing Harry Potter from those stories, or either of the Baggin's from the Lord of the Rings books. There simply wouldn't be a game without them. All you'd have left was aimless wandering around the countryside with absolutely no focus.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:47 am

i think there is some confusion here between gameplay and game story - the point of the dragons is tied to the central theme of the Elder scrolls as in the prophetic scrolls not the series - the dragons arrival drive the story events - they are not just included as an extra creature to fight but rather are tied to the central story - why the blades came about, their link to the septims and the reason the Dragonborn exists. as a plot device i think that's really cool compared to here's a new monster go fight that for no other reason than it exists.

I understand and I hope it has the best story Bethesda has ever created. Don't think I am ignoring the potential because I am not. I just hope they execute everything else outside of dragons because another 5 years is a long wait.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:30 am

Ok bad is too strong of a word.

Not really. Dragons are crap, but its just a matter of opinion and has nothing to do with any of the reasons you mentioned.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:29 am

I always hate topics like this. "If the developers didn't focus on this central feature, they could have added (name niche gameplay mechanic here)"

Heres is the simple answer: This game is Bethesda's game, and they are going to build it how THEY want it. If they want dragons, then damn it they are going to add dragons, especially since they are important to the story/lore of the game and series as a whole. You also make a mistake in assuming that if they didn't add dragons, they would have more time/resources to add other features, but thats not always true. Its very possible they would have simply used a smaller team or had a shorter development time if they didn't add in certain features. Thats not even getting into the fact that none of the features you mentioned would be important... as I alluded to, they are niche features that would not be important to everyone. Dragons on the other hand are a huge part of the story of the game, so its kinda hard to say they should have been scraqed for a handful of non-essential features. This would be like someone saying "You know... if Infinity Ward didn't spend all their time adding guns in COD, they could have made a Mount and Blade clone". That might not be the best example, but its pretty much the same thing.

The bottom line is, if you want to dictate what is or isn't an important feature in a AAA video game... go to school, get a degree, become a game designer, and THEN you can decide that some niche climbing system is more important then dragons in a game thats suppose to be about dragons. Good luck getting a job with decision making like that though.

Assuming???? These are thoughts not assumptions, are you saying I cant think as a human being??? I mean come on. "so its kinda hard to say they should have been scraqed for a handful of non-essential features." Please re-read my post and point out to me where I say the dragons should be scrapped. And I never said Bethesda should do this or Bethesda needs to do that. And I know you know what an example is because you just wrote one, so that niche climbing system that you state is an EXAMPLE, I even say "you guys are well aware of all of your ideas" meaning any idea could have been that example...