This.

They made them their own, dragons don't actually breathe fire or fly on their own in TES, they use magic from their language to do it. Also, dragons can breathe cold also apparently and so on.

Agree on everything but the orcs. Corrupted elves, sounds just like a copy of Tolkien's orcs to me. I'm not incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to lore in TES but I always enjoy hearing about it all, so if i'm wrong and there's much more to it than what you said then I'd love to hear it.

Eh, to me they're just being set up as another big bad killing machine...big whoop :rolleyes: Not much fun there :shrug:

Now if it was something that I'd never heard of before, maybe like the Smog Monster, Huge Spiny Fleas, or even http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade or something fanstastic like that, I'd be impressed. Even moreso if they didn't mention it every single time an announcement was made...surprises can be good, yes?

they are cliche, but ES have given them their own twist, they dont breathe fire, they yell at you and then you burn

Done properly, even the most classic and cliche figure or trope can seem fresh and original.

From how Todd has described how they are in-game, they sound absolutely amazing! As long as the combat is unique with them, IE you can't just like swing your axe at their leg and then they die after x number of hits.

Pff, real dragons don't have limbs.

Which made me think of a water dragon (Able to only fly and swim), would be a very hard dragon to defeat .

Rofl, this makes it sound like you mean the dragons that live in Europe, as opposed to the ones that are native to wherever else

lol, no, the term just means the type of dragon most common to European mythology

Their appearance is cliche (though pretty cool), but I think their behavior and culture is unique enough.

I'm not sure whether dragons are "cliche" or "novel" is the most relevant part of their value to the game. I'll be more happy if they simply succeed in being EPIC, that being the true purpose of dragons everywhere. They are giant big bads (usually) who fly and breathe fire (usually), are ancient, greedy, and destructive (usually) and exist for a hero to slay them (usually).

I put so many "usuallys" into those last sentences because almost every possible and impossible treatment of dragons has been done. Dragons have been small as well as large; they've been good friends and wise advisors as well as great enemies; they've been great mystic entities, beasts, aliens, or simply another type of person; they've been mutes, telepaths, and speakers in tongues; winged and wingless; aquatic, landbound, and true creatures of the sky; they have filled many, many roles.

Given the very wide range of definitions of what a dragon is and what a dragon does, I doubt gamesas could say anything on the subject that, when taken apart down to its elements, is really unique. It doesn't worry me that much, though. There is nothing new under the sun, but people still tell good tales. So far they have not stuck to the "standard" script on every element, and that gives me a great deal of hope; it shows that they are trying to say something that is specific to the Elder Scrolls universe.

In short, I think it'll be alright, and it might be great. We'll see.

A lot of TES' strength comes from its ability to subvert cliche.
I expect that to be fully realized with dragons.
As I'm fond of quoting, "Not that one is the first to see something new, but that one sees as new that which is old, long familiar, seen and overlooked by everybody, is what distinguishes truly original minds. The first discoverer is ordinarily that wholly common creature, devoid of spirit - accident."

By the way, I'm pretty peeved at all the people saying Alduin is a "really big dragon that's also a god."
He's not just a really big dragon. It's in that aspect that he literally devours the world. He's a REALLY big dragon, but that's far from all he is, and people seem to be failing to realize just how big he is, and his importance as a divinity.

um.............they are not any more original than beast races, elves, goblins, imps, skeletons........you get the idea.

Well ill start off by saying: Almost all of the ancient cultures of our existence on Earth have pointed towards the existence of dragons. We have no evidence that could either prove or disprove this, and the preposterousness of the matter left alone, the facts point towards their existence. (so perhaps not so preposterous as the media makes them) but aside from that, i believe that in assuming they could have existed, this provides a source of creativity for all artists to have their own interpretation at. Yes, your typical fantasy fiction dragon would be cliche, as its what we see most of. fire breathing, green with scales, ect. However Bethesda has touched more upon the Nibiru/annunaki conspiracy in making one of them a God. Also their entire 'voice' idea creates for a whole new level of originality, as well as their stone-like appearence, and seemingly lankiness of their proportions, as was pointed out in one of the various demo reviews released today.

the way they are being implemented is what set them apart to me

with that said... Im kinda getting tired of sites like IGN reiterating the same old thing about them. Dragons are awesome - I get it. But I was a TES fan before dragons, so I'd like to hear other details

Novel.

People should worry more about the magic weapon effects

Actually well done dragons are pretty novel.

Sure, plenty of fantasy games have dragons, but seldom are they memorable. Hopefully Skyrim will change that. The talk of them also speaking the common tongue and hints that a few may not be totally evil are certainly encouraging signs.

You really want that feature don't you?

What besides DINOSAURS with WINGS who can BREATHE FIRE does one need to know?

This. Too many people scream cliche or plagarism when it really isn't. What kills me is how its all fine and dandy that things like "Magic" and "Orcs" and "The chosen Hero" all get reused and thrown it without so much as a whimper from the audience, but god forbid if dragons are in the game, those are so overrated.

It's all in how the material is presented, how it is made the creator's own by his unique perspective, not how often it is used.

I think with Skyrim Bethesda will make them their own.

I can't think of another game that has used Dragons like this. I don't think any other game will be able to capture the same feeling.

Cliche ain't always a bad thing....

At first I was a bit skeptical about the dragons, but it seems to me now that they've really made them their own. Just hope they won't appear too often and remove focus from exploring.