but it's not about the "why can the dragon fly at all". It's about the ways the in-game animations let the model down, so in that case the "stubborn OP" is actually discussing the issue at a level higher than you.

If "Dragons fly by magic" solved the issue, then the entire mechanic of dragon's flying looks wrong. Dragons should accelerate and decelerate impossibly quickly, strafe and vertically land, and should, if anything, resemble UFOs more than anything.

As you are obviously such an expert, answer this:
In the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic6dKnv3WdU&feature=related, why doesn't the dragon tail whip the PC to stop him from escaping?

Time dragon fight started edited

Just because dragons use magic to fly doesn't mean that they should be able to make 90 degree turns....

Not really, as I have already adressed that issue in a previous post.
Something of that size and mass cannot use real world physics and aerodynamics in a game as that would make for impossibly boring aerial battles.
A dragon needs to be able to swoop and turn, for gameplay reasons.
If it were to behave like something that size would then there would be no hovering and the only aerial battle possible would be it going to a great height, diving down, swooping in low, picking you up and dropping you on some sharp rocks.
An incline would be impossible as it would crash.
It would also be impossible for it to get to the air, unless it let itself drop from a height as bats do.
That lore supports this with the use of dragon language is a happy coincidence.

I cannot look at your link as the video refuses to load.

OP I think you are wrong, the dragon doesn't make any tighter a turn at that point than at other times in the sequence. It's just perspective and it is done correctly given the turning animation through the rest of the flight. You can tell by timing the turn, its just not faster.

My comment is not a comment on physics, just on animation consistency. That turn is consistent with other turns seen.

How can you apply something to science and physics, when it breaks the laws of science and physics!?

All good, my internet is pretty bad too and is eaten up just as quickly by youtube as by a starving possum.

I don't follow.

You can't use aerodynamics to say why the dragon can or cannot fly, correct. The issue isn't with aerodynamics, it is with the rest of physics. The part of physics that says it is wrong that something can be travelling in a straight line, have a force applied in a different direction and then accelerate into that new direction ignoring the first velocity it had. Sorry but there is no part of your argument that states that that is an event that occurs. You say that the dragon can fly because magic offsets it's aerodynamic impossibility, but we aren't saying that. What we are saying is that magic doesn't mean that every other law of physics suddenly looks the other way for a minute or two.

If something of that size and mass cannot use physics, then why does a 442000 Kg Boeing 747 travelling at 500km/hr fall towards the ground in a parabolic shape if you rip both wings off, for example? According to you, because of it's size, mass and aerodynamically wrong shape it should immediately stop flying forwards and plunge straight towards the ground. Likewise, if you put a jet engine facing straight downwards on the plane (the magical aspect of the scenario), it's still not going to whip through that change in velocity faster than it should, and more importantly, it is still going to travel in a parabola, not just flip from going forwards to going straight down.

As far as I have followed your argument, what you are arguing is that the dragon does not need to swoop and turn at all, but can take physics and do what it likes with them at whim, which means that it could rotate around it's own axis. Not that the gameplay animation is imperfect, which is the blindingly obvious fact that even Bethesda would probably agree to, in the same way that strafing diagonally in Oblivion was because of an animation shortfall. Would you agree with that last statement? Or would you start arguing that the reason the characters in Oblivion could strafe diagonally while walking forwards was because they were using magic?

Edit: I'm going to bed now. All this combination of magic and physics is giving me a headache with working out the specifics.

But thats not what I said at all :/
If anything, following your metaphor, Im saying that a boeing cannot rush to the ground at a steep incline and then pull up at the last second again, as it would crash. That is momentum, and mass.
A boeing also cannot swoop and turn in the way the dragon does. It would, again, fall out of the sky.
I did not talk about aerodynamics much at all, and its rather disingenious to make an entire post debunking what I say using that as a premise. I was saying that the dragon obviously is not aerodynamic. I am talking about physics, and why the dragon behaving as it does clearly does not follow it.
I am saying that a dragon flies by using its dragon language to mimic the effects of levitation.
Which is what they do, and on that there can be no doubt.

Secondly, the entire point of my post, which you so handily ignored, was that if the dragon were to behave as physics would dictate a creature of such mass would, there would be no aerial dragon battles at all.
For the exact same reason that there would be none if it were a boeing, physics would prohibit anything but an eagle-style swoop.
Dragons do not and cannot behave as physics would dictate, for gameplay reasons.

lol.... LOL , LOOOOL you have no clue about what were all talking about cause you didnt see the vid, and your saying im seeing the world flat, when you dont know whats the world were talking about, gaaaaush your making me laugh soo hard disputing with percistance and you dont even have half a quarter of a clue about what were talking bout, IT JUST KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER THE MORE IM THINKING ABOUT IT, you coulda said u didnt see it 5 pages ago
the links fine, your nets probably the problem, go to your friends computer and see for yourself and realize your wrong, and for those who cant see what im talking about, go get your eyes checked, seriously you should do that, not trying to mock you im just worried about your eyes specifically Skyrim-WOHOO
and thanks for stormbird who understood me and defended me unlike a clueless guy swinging his sword at nothing

lol at your edit... accoriding to me? i didnt say **** about mass or weight, im saying, 90 degree turn is???? IMPOSSIBLE
and btw, you cannot "use physics" in your words, physics is everything man, while im typing its physics (newton force exerted on the keys) you cant use physics because your practically bffs with physics all your life, physics is in us and all around us, get your facts straight man, you dont know what were talking about, then why argue!!!!

newton doesnt exist in skyrim im affraid, but magic does.

eve rthought maybe dragons do fly acording to your precious physics laws, but when wanted to go force they use a combination of shouts like slow down time,force based shouts, energy destorying and producing shouts to make powerful 90 degree turns? huh huh u think of that

Thank you for talking down to me because a link will not load.
Pray in future keep in mind that I do quite enjoy the niceties of polite conversation and that I in no way, shape or form will put up with such a tone.
If you decide to continue replying to my posts I would like to politely encourage you to utilise a more civil mode of conversation.

Well done for completely missing the point of my post, which Im quite sure is deliberate, in order to further spout your ignorance.
Physics is everything indeed.
The sun is a hole in the sky, the laws of nature are semi-sentient, gods exist and entire cities float.
Sheesh.

I am perfectly confident I have my facts regarding TES lore quite straight and I do urge you to read up more.
On spelling, that would help, but also lore.

At this point, arguing that dragons do not use magic to assist flight is akin to what happened on the forums over half a year ago. When people kept insisting at first that the dragons had to be Akaviri in spite of everything pointing towards they were not and secondly when people kept insisting (quite empathetically) Alduin is not Akatosh.
That is where the flat Earth comment comes in, as it is just as ignorant to fly in the face of tons of evidence to promote the notion that it is flat as it is to go against tons of evidence that the lore is what it is.

i know they fly by magic but the animation still looks a bit off

Dragons do defy physics, so that does give them some opportunities to do things that wouldn't work with normal flying. Even if they did it intentionally though, it would just look like an animation problem to most people unless told otherwise. Maybe they could do something like put some kind of spell effect distortion whenever dragons do an impossible move.

any one else feel like the topic host is being kinda picky...ITS A VIDEO GAME! i could see you being upset if the dragons wings didnt flap or maybe if he was just a 16 bit two dimensional rendering but damn they added random dragon encounters that are treated like any other creature in the game give them some slack.

im sorry i saddened you mate, but do you go to congress without hearing the topic and based on what they say which is "its been mean to us" then you go and suggest they "kill IT" when they tell you their talking about the weather, its funny that your talking and talking and talking and you dont know what were talking about WHICH is the link and how they dont flap as often as they should, not "why do they fly" but about 4 pages brought us in to a deeper position in this subject so ill continue with it", now getting back to dragons, my new theory is...... wing enchantments yup its quite logical like some guy said almost 2 pages back, or if they take power from a core, which enables them to cast a longterm flying spell which is at anytime controllable, and ftr i hope someone from bethesda reads this and if its not fixed they might be able to, its not really a bad problem, but were all expecting soo much of this game, i know i am , that anything minor like that gets us all fussed up *or just me * but its weird how if its damaged it falls, when its by magic O.o thats got be in a pickle, maybe they become "cut off" from their core source of power, idk <_<
try to see the link and understand what im sayin
PS. do you think i give a ************************* about my spelling, if you can read it then your good to go

You see, that is the point with spelling.
The whole reason it was invented was to make stuff readable.
Try reading a Roman tablet, they didnt have spelling, punctuation or capital/ lower case distinction, they didnt even use spaces, so it reads mostly like a Sunday newspaper puzzle.
As it is, your posts lack spelling, spacing and interpunctuation and they are just very hard to make sense of.
Id imagine its obvious you do not care, but when you write something you are writing it to be read by other people.
Not following the conventions of written language, thereby forcing your readers to play guess the meaning is quite simply rude.

My dear, I have seen that video, so please quit going on and on about how I do not know what I am talking about.
I clearly do, which you would be forced to admit if you took the common courtesy of actually reading my posts instead of glossing over them poised to pick up on something you can rip out of context and agitate on.
That one link did not work. So, heres a thought, quit dragging it on and on as if it actually means or proves anything. It does not.
As other people have said, that one turn is solely due to point of view. I have repeatedly stated that expecting a two ton animal to fly according to Earth physics would make for a very boring game because it would make aerial battles impossible.

I have never changed my explanation of the facts. It is you who keeps skirting around, coming up with ridiculous similes and then insisting my argument is wrong based on how stupid your comparison is.
That will not do.

The facts are there. Dragon flight is assisted by magic.
Dragons shall not behave like a two ton airborne animal on Earth would, for gameplay reasons.
This will not change for you, no matter how huffed up you get.
Frankly I dont even care enough anymore to try and make you see reason.
You have created this thread not to discuss or ask people knowledgeable about lore how things work, you have made it with at the back of your mind the notion that your view is carved in stone and that anyone who disagrees is wrong.
So I am done. I see no reason to continue to point things out in a logical manner to someone displaying your level of rudeness and bullheadedness.

I couldn't care less if dragons defied the laws as physics as long as they were done well,

Don't really care that much, as long as it looks good, which it does.

No they don't. That's one of those old wives tales often told by Creationists and the like (IDiots, as they are labeled by caustic scientists like Dawkins and others). Just like the claim that helicopters defy the laws of physics. The Gaps are always shrinking...

EDIT- seems you found out the truth on the matter in a later post.


Still, it would LOOK a lot prettier if dragons soared as if they used the wind. Can't have everything, I guess.

Have you ever seen a dragon? For real? I guess if you saw a bird fly like that, you'd have some real-life experience to base your statement on...but let's face it, it's a dragon...you got nothing

Well in most dragon games ive played as a reference...the dragon"barrell roll" usually happens with slight movements...of course dragons are mythical creatures that can be interpreted in any way...and it seems bethesda incorporates magick into there version of dragons...plus they've put 2 yrs into just one type of enemy in the game so im sure it has something to do with how the physics works in the game engine that if they didnt then the animation itself wouldnt turn out right

The flying animation isn't perfect, but i'm sure making such an animation is some pretty complex programming. It might not look good 100% of the time but besides from the errors here and there it's still great. Perhaps they can still smoothen these little things out before they release the game?

Can it be improved? Sure. Does it look good? Hell yes!




:lol: Touche

A lot of poeple say they are flying because of magic to prove the OP wrong which is correct. But I am just saying Obviously I am not for sure since I haven't seen a dragon for like 6 months..but depending on how there skeleton is made up and what kinds of tissues of flesh make up the wings..It could be possible.

Of course it defies physics. The shape of a dragon doesn't work for flying. But it doesn't really matter since it's a game.