Dragons shouting Dragon Shouts : V - Skyrim

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:04 pm

Again I am describing the E3 demo gameplay here and the dragons are only using their aerial combat which we saw in the trailer. I did not add their ability to shout or knock you down.

Again, I saw it too. I'm not intimidated, I'm excited.

Those who are asking for senseless difficulty should maybe think about what they are asking for a little...

Thought about it, still want the game to try to pulverize me.

There's also the fact that one's character increases in power over time. Or did you forget that? And we're supposed to kill dragons, I doubt all of them will be uber.

Trust me, no matter what Bethesda does, I will win. Their monsters will die. And it will be glorious. :rock:

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:33 pm

Tonal Architect is very optimistic about his chances no matter the odds....

I'll drink to that :foodndrink:

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:24 am

So let us play along here with all those folks clamoring for excessive difficulty....

Assume your are playing on easy mode already, and two dragons show up like they did in the trailer, only this time there are no guards to help you.

They are very massive creatures so they swoop down grab you and throw like a rag doll.

By the time you fall to the ground you have lost 60 pct of your health. The Dragons have not even started hitting you in melee, they have not even started using shouts...

Just as you are consuming the first potion or letting off a shout, they have already caught up with you (because they can fly and you only have your running legs).

The second Dragon picks you up and throws you also like that giant in the trailer...You die.

You rinse and repeat, and by the time you die the umpteenth time in a row, your love of 'difficult' will wash off face quickly. Skyrim will stop being fun

Again I am describing the E3 demo gameplay here and the dragons are only using their aerial combat which we saw in the trailer. I did not add their ability to shout or knock you down.

Those who are asking for senseless difficulty should maybe think about what they are asking for a little...

You are not taking into account that the character in the demo was in no way optimized, and simply had 999 health. He looked to have very basic armor, basic weapons, no real magic of note, and his skills were woefully low when compared to his actual level.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:28 am

i hope dragons are a challenge even on higher levels i don't want to be able to beat dragons to death

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:30 am

So let us play along here with all those folks clamoring for excessive difficulty....

Assume your are playing on easy mode already, and two dragons show up like they did in the trailer, only this time there are no guards to help you.

They are very massive creatures so they swoop down grab you and throw like a rag doll.

By the time you fall to the ground you have lost 60 pct of your health. The Dragons have not even started hitting you in melee, they have not even started using shouts...

Just as you are consuming the first potion or letting off a shout, they have already caught up with you (because they can fly and you only have your running legs).

The second Dragon picks you up and throws you also like that giant in the trailer...You die.

You rinse and repeat, and by the time you die the umpteenth time in a row, your love of 'difficult' will wash off face quickly. Skyrim will stop being fun

Again I am describing the E3 demo gameplay here and the dragons are only using their aerial combat which we saw in the trailer. I did not add their ability to shout or knock you down.

Those who are asking for senseless difficulty should maybe think about what they are asking for a little...

There should and is a challenge all ready. Dragons are bosses all ready they dont need to be more powerful. if a dragon called in a storm you would be attacked from alot of angle's imagine if multiple dragon's attacked you. Since they're unscripted you could come across one at lvl 3. There powerful enough at LEAST double your hp.

Say a pack attacked you and one called in a storm your best bet would be to run. I dont want to be at a disadvantage nor do i want to be extremly powerful. The shouts and our brains are good enough. Plus the Dragon AI is NOT dumb in the demo when the guy breathed fire at the ice dragon it moved out the way thats far from dumb.

I want a challange that i have a 50% chance of winning, not a 35% chance.

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:59 pm

I read on and read the same thing over and over.

I think Dragon Shout power depends on how many Dragon Souls you have and/or how powerful your Dragon Soul(s) are. Each Dragon surely only has one, if you have 2 dragon souls you should have twice the soul power of a normal dragon. If you have 50 Dragons Souls then... your shout power should be rather... devastating.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:11 am

Actually, since there will be varying types of dragons, I imagine that they each will have their own designated shouts to accomodate their own particular design. Like a frost dragon using his frost shouts and stuff. -shrugs-

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:35 pm

I read on and read the same thing over and over.

I think Dragon Shout power depends on how many Dragon Souls you have and/or how powerful your Dragon Soul(s) are. Each Dragon surely only has one, if you have 2 dragon souls you should have twice the soul power of a normal dragon. If you have 50 Dragons Souls then... your shout power should be rather... devastating.

Except if that was the case, Dragons wouldn't be able to use 3 tiered Dragon Shouts.

What applies to us is not the same as the restrictions imposed on the Dragons.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:22 am

Of course they're going to be using their own natural powers... How they go about their day, supernaturally, if you will, is due to the Dragon Shouts...

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:02 pm

Your character is the 'Dragonborn' so there is some relationship there. I don't think the dragons' Dragonshout would be the same as yours though. There has to be a balance. If the dragon is too powerful how will you defeat it? You can't go flying around like the dragon, you are not as strong as the dragon so you need a little extra power from something.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:48 am

Your character is the 'Dragonborn' so there is some relationship there. I don't think the dragons' Dragonshout would be the same as yours though. There has to be a balance. If the dragon is too powerful how will you defeat it? You can't go flying around like the dragon, you are not as strong as the dragon so you need a little extra power from something.

yes we need some kind of a advantage

Player has/ brains,stealth, magic,dragon shouts, ect

Dragon has/ Flight, fire breath, ice breath, powerful meele, good AI, shouts(if possible), lots of health

i think dragons should have 2 shouts max (boss dragon) since they cant take other dragons souls and match them up with shouts.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:52 am

Do the people whining about dragons being too hard realize there are difficulty settings for just such a situation... if you want it hard set the game on hard and if you don't want a challenge keep it at normal or easy. Pretty damn simple.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:50 am

Beginning of the game dragons should have between 1 and 3 shouts in my opinion.

With a smattering of boss type dragons who have up to 4 - 5 shouts at the beginning, but are static spawns you need to go out of your way to find and attack them.

Middle of the game they upgrade to 3 - 4 shouts, end game they have 5 - 6. Special bosses (dragons with actual names and or speaking roles) have 5+ shouts.

If we fight Alduin, he should have every single shout in the game at a greater magnitude of power than is possible for anyone.

Overall though, if I can kill my first dragon on my first play-through without having to reload at least twice, I will consider dragons as a failure unless the fight is a drawn out, nerve wracking 20+ minute affair of trying to survive.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:32 am

I absolutely think they should. High level dragons should have multiple shouts, and special bosses should be able to have every shout we have. There should even be some shouts that we the player can never use or gain in my opinion.

Think about it: This is their language to begin with, why should our upstart dragonborn be better at or know more words than they do when they have possibly lived many hundreds or thousands of years longer than any mortal out there?

This. I want dragons to be absurdly challenging. They're basically Skyrim's Oblivion Gates, so it should be as though every hardship you find in the realm of Oblivion is there, flying around attacking you.

Absurd difficulty is good for gaming. It makes everything an accomplishment and prevents the less skilled players from achieving the same success as the skilled players.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:44 pm

Overall though, if I can kill my first dragon on my first play-through without having to reload at least twice, I will consider dragons as a failure unless the fight is a drawn out, nerve wracking 20+ minute affair of trying to survive.

As will I. Sure, I'll still play the game, but I'd much, much rather have to tone the dragons down (it would take a LOT to force me to do that, believe me), than have to build them up to the level I find acceptable, especially if it's just because Bethesda thinks we're all a bunch of wussbags who had to cheat to beat Gaenor or something.

I doubt that'll be the case though. I think we ticked them off with our complaining with Oblivion, and now it's payback time. I welcome it. :rock:

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:40 am

While I agree that it SHOULD be the case that they can do any of the same shouts as the PC, I'd guess that its a lot of hard work to teach the Dragon AI when it would be appropriate to slow down time and then what to do with it. Besides, the dragon's AI is already controlled by a computer processor, so it's already got the advantage in battle...

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:05 am

While I agree that it SHOULD be the case that they can do any of the same shouts as the PC, I'd guess that its a lot of hard work to teach the Dragon AI when it would be appropriate to slow down time and then what to do with it. Besides, the dragon's AI is already controlled by a computer processor, so it's already got the advantage in battle...

Only if it command-reads, which I will say is definitely cheap as hell. Other than that, no RPG enemy has ever managed to outsmart me.

Puzzle/fighting games on the other hand...

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:03 am

While I agree that it SHOULD be the case that they can do any of the same shouts as the PC, I'd guess that its a lot of hard work to teach the Dragon AI when it would be appropriate to slow down time and then what to do with it. Besides, the dragon's AI is already controlled by a computer processor, so it's already got the advantage in battle...

Why do people always say this when it is not true at all? Fact is AI will always be able to process things faster than a player, but they will never be able to match a real player's ingenuity, cleverness, and possible cheapness. AI are also generally driven by patterns and direct responses, which can be exploited into being looped or repeated.

» Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:45 pm

20 minutes is way too long, what if another dragon come's along? The battles should be challenging but not dragged out these are not god of war bosses, you fight more than one.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:26 am

20 minutes is way too long, what if another dragon come's along? The battles should be challenging but not dragged out these are not god of war bosses, you fight more than one.

To be fair, we don't know the extent of what fighting more than one will be like. Going purely off of the demo video, the second dragon either did not appear until the first was dead, or was waiting for us to kill the first one before it came.

And besides, I was talking about the very first encounter, fresh and somewhat new to the game with maybe not so good gear or abilities and little to no experience in how to deal with a dragon

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:57 am

Chances are, The dragon's shouts will be limited- but what shouts they will have, will probably a notch more than your own.

But as for what i'd like- I want the dragon to have whatever shout it wants. If the dragon slows down time, it's up to me and my actions to decide if it's impossible to beat. It's about strategy, using your surroundings to your advantage. I don't care if I have to run through an entire village, throwing everyone in it's path to attack/flee from/die in order to defeat it.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:54 am

Meh. Twenty minutes works for me, especially if it's my first dragon, and I'm not exactly well-equipped at the time. My first battle with Hircine's Guile aspect took almost that long.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:29 pm

To be fair, we don't know the extent of what fighting more than one will be like. Going purely off of the demo video, the second dragon either did not appear until the first was dead, or was waiting for us to kill the first one before it came.

And besides, I was talking about the very first encounter, fresh and somewhat new to the game with maybe not so good gear or abilities and little to no experience in how to deal with a dragon

yes i know based on what you said if a fight was 20 minutes and another came along it would be 40 minutes of fighting a dragon. and i believe the dragon's should be a challenge but fight's not dragged out. plus i doubt the fight would be twenty minute's if you were any lvl if dragon's lvl up with you.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:58 pm

yes i know based on what you said if a fight was 20 minutes and another came along it would be 40 minutes of fighting a dragon. and i believe the dragon's should be a challenge but fight's not dragged out.

When we first fight a dragon, we are not likely to go in guns a blazing so to speak. We will be afraid or cautious to take many bold actions. The fight will seem longer, not exactly because it has too much health, but because we being new to fighting a dragon, did not take advantage of many openings or opportunities to inflict damage. On our second fight against a dragon, it might be knocked down to 14 or 10 minutes because we know its moves better, and might have better skills and gear.

» Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:31 am

I just know that fights where both opponents have time stop will be epic. WRYYYYY anyone?