I luckily haven't made a Dragon character to play as yet. I just played as a Dragon for testing only (never for playing). I'll try running without the mod, as Wyre Bash said there where no 'savegame bloating' problems.

EDIT: Works like a charm now, I just used Wyre Bash to remove bloating after deactivating the mod, no problems at all!

That's very valuable feedback. Thanks, Zuperbuu.

I was expecting OBSE to clean those .obse files of unused entries coming from a plugin no longer used, but I'm glad my assumption was right.
So this means once I fixed my scripts a simple clean-save without my mod activated will get your game rid of those renegade string_vars exploded in numbers.
Of course doing a clean-save without my plugin will still leave you with "some" bloating. Next time you use my mod my scripts will have forgotten they ever created a massive amount of cloneForms already for adapted items and said cloneForms will reside in your savegames unaccessible for eternity. But as I might have stated already, a couple orphaned base item records are nothing compared to hundreds or thousands of left-over string_vars in the .obse files.

The adress-range should be huge enough for you to be able to repeat this process a couple times without running out of available base item records... but still, some time it "will" end, and your games are without doubt increasing in size every time you do that. That's why I want to prevent these base item records from getting lost and inaccessible for my scripts by all means.

I'm only glad I get all those flaws reported and fixed already before I can even think about releasing the very first real beta.
edit: That's the bright side of being unable to mod for this incredibly long period it seems...

OBSE does that. Or have I misunderstood that sentence ?

Seems so. :shrug:
I thought OBSE did that, but I didn't "know". So my expectation was based on assumption.
Zuperbuu verified it by example, so now I do know.

So, yeah, basically we're both saying the same thing here. OBSE does that, and I'm glad assuming this was right. ^_^

Glad to see the save game issue is being fixed. and i hope u get a new pc soon drake, imagine what you could do with a pc, you've done so much without one.

now, just an idea, perhaps the different dragon race types could have different racial abilities?

for example, the black dragon could be better at sneaking, while the red gold might have a bonus to speech or something?

and onem last thing.... have you thought any more about the saphire dragon drake?

Glad to see the save game issue is being fixed. and i hope u get a new pc soon drake, imagine what you could do with a pc, you've done so much without one.

now, just an idea, perhaps the different dragon race types could have different racial abilities?

for example, the black dragon could be better at sneaking, while the red gold might have a bonus to speech or something?

and onem last thing.... have you thought any more about the saphire dragon drake?

sorry for the double post, internet is being REALLY wierd

wow i haven't been here in a while.

nice bit of news since i was last on.

that nexus upload saved me a lot of time re-downloading everything on my new desktop.

Ah, no worries then

AHHHHH!!!!
drake i no how u feel with your computer, my main computer just died, i think it's the power input.... (this is the 3rd time in 2 months my computer has stuffed up)

I don't know what's worse (and no irony intended)...
a pc dying on a regular basis 3 times in 2 months...
or a pc staying dead for over 6 months (and 6 professional repair attempts) and no replacement in sight...

Well, I'm feeling sorry for your trouble and wish you the best for getting it fixed more quickly than I.

I myself am quite busy with my job currently, so there's not much progress in anything at all. But you all should already be used to this from me, so whom am I telling here?

Mr Smiles, I think this "different abilities and stuff on a per-race basis"-topic has come up... uhm... I stopped counting... times already, and I can still only answer the same I did all the other times:
"Of course that's planned, but these are details compared to the vital features which still aren't finished or even started. So I'm not even bothering with thinking about such things too much in detail at the current point in development."
(And this was not meant as a complaint or anything from me. I don't expect anybody to read more than the current thread or even only the last 1-2 pages. Heck, I don't even care when somebody asks a question I answered in the last post right before his, I just answer it again... and can't stop chuckling in secret about it. But sometimes I also feel the need to tell it was the upteenth time something like this was asked. That's all.)

As for the saphire dragon scheme, I'm sorry but I didn't get around to think about it further either. Anyways, what exactly needed improvement/alteration in my last attempt I posted pictures of?

edit: On a related note, you might want to follow the discussion going on in the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081621-betawipz-playable-goblins/ thread (which has now rather turned into "playable everything"). Over there I was just put into a cushioned capsule of solid steel and thrown through a brick wall of limitations I was still bound to until today!
Seems like almost all limitations regarding body meshes, shapes, skeletons and animations I was ever talking about... are non-existant anymore. Even I can't imagine all this enables me to do in future development of this project... but you could get quite a good idea about what's all coming up next. (Whenever "next" will be.)
Just think about the "possibilities"! :woot:

sorry about re-asking the same question, and the computer has been giving me grief with hardware (1st actual hard drive, 2nd fan issues, 3rd power imput gives up in a puff of white smoke)

and witht the saphire, it looked somewhat like a silver dragon with blue highlights, but a great job none the less.

i hope you get your computer back soon, the company thats doing it seems to make quite an effort at being incompetent

and at least you got a steady job, mines been putting me off because i have an hourly wage of about 50c more than some other guys who have no idea what the word "work" means

anyway, enough of my problems,

i just want to suggest some ideas to try to keep the forum active, whenever it becomes quiet i worry the mod's gone dead, like many other mods i have followed.

(thats another reason why the dragon race mod is awsome, it just keeps improving)

Just a little progress update, even though there's no actual "progress" to talk of.

I'm still venturing on the quest for buying a new pc, but I didn't have many opportunities to look at some offers yet, just too busy with my job and all.
However, I'm coming closer, so hopefully my being without a pc won't be too long anymore.

Well, now back to the project, given what I learned over in the "Playable Goblins"-thread I'm now going to redesign the whole skeleton-/mesh- layout.
I was hoping to present a proof-of-concept picture of the new appearance, but... you guessed it... didn't get around to do it yet.

If things are working out the way I'm intending,
I won't need to adapt leg items much anymore, as the skeleton will do the digitigradeness for me, the feet will be completely poseable in a natural way, because the skeleton will now be fitting the mesh and I don't need any approximated movement by a humanoid skeleton anymore.
I'll try to give them a slightly elongated neck by inserting additional neck bones between the existing neck and head bones. Maybe I'll get rid of the strange neck-bending this way as well.
I will redo every Vanilla animation so it works with my dragons and looks way better fitting, because I now can give them their very own complete set of animations and won't even remotely mess up your existing ones. I'll no longer have to mess around with special-idle animations triggered at the right moment to move the wings out of the way when going into combat stance or anything, simply because the combat stance animation will include the wings moving out of the way already on its own... you see where this is going, no? Full artistic freedom to me and nothing to work around!

Granted, this new way any animation replacers won't even remotely affect my dragons, they're replacing the wrong .kf files after all,... I'll have to look into adding support for such mods like Deadly Reflex and Unneccessary Violence, because it would be a pain if those weren't usable when playing a dragon anymore... but honestly, their animations won't really work for my dragons anyways, not even the current ones, without me adding in movement for the wings and such. Additionally, how cool would it be when certain special moves from said mods suddenly would involve using your tail, blades, claws or whatever's fitting like my dragons really would?

I admit this will be a hell of a lot of work, and I still can't even start it right now. But just imagine the potential these steps are promising!
I'll be in full control of my work and won't have to stay away from anything just to not risk messing with existing things and cause incompatibility any longer.

Anyways, this will only start after the first beta release you all are waiting for. After all, I still need my latest scripts finally tested in an open beta, else they could be as useless as they are now with the future design as well.
And don't worry, while I'm at it already altering tons of animations, I of course won't leave out doing the "flight" animations everybody's shouting for. And when I'm done and I can't see any .kf files, armatures or bones anymore for a long while, then I'll at least be satisfied with what I achieved already, looking back at it all together!

Now I just hope I can start with this all early enough. But anyways, at least you now know what I'm up to in the future of this project... Are you as curious as I am already how far I will get with all this? :rolleyes:

I can't wait! I'm glad to hear of the endless possibilities that you could go with this. I think your best bet would be to build your own computer instead of buying one right out. I know they tend to overcharge if you just pick one up from your local Walmart (ect...).

Anyways, glad to hear your still alive and ready to get a (Non Dell) computer.

yea, making your own computer usually works well, but no warranty, thats my current problem, my computer is a "homebrew" so when a part broke, i have to stuff around finding the appropriate replacement part. and i have exams. :dead: so geting the dam thing fixed is a problem. so word of advice, if u make your own computer, make shure you know where to get a quick replacement part

It's fine and dandy when you buy a computer already built. I have no argument there, however my previous computer started acting up (was a Dell) I needed a part. Unfortunately it was old and Dell didn't make the part anymore I found out the info I needed and tried to order one, however Dell makes their parts only fit a certain type of their computer. Unlike if you made your own you could use any brand of the same part and it would fit. Not so in the case.

Anyways, hope everything is going well. I can understand getting the time, money, and energy to put one together is/can be a pain. But at least you will have a better "toy" to work with and get your animations and whatnot completed faster then on an ancient relic from another time. :whistling:

I'm back to comparing the individual components more already right now anyways.
I won't go and buy component by component individually like I did for every other pc I ever bought before though.

I'll start from a very satisfying complete assembly, everything guaranteed to be working together and fine-tuned etc. If then anything's missing or inadequate, I can still go and buy upgrades afterwards.

I have the money now, so I can likely afford anything I want. But I still won't go and waste it either.

Thanks for the heads up. I hope my time without a pc will be over soon.

lol, computers are a pain :meh:

but these days its hard to live without them....

anyway, glad to hear the computer situation is coming along well, and your new idea for the dragons sounds awsome :clap: i cant wait to see it in action.

and just a side note, i found that when the dragon race adapts a set of gloves, the gloves loose their special benefits, for example, i was playing before my computer broke, and i found that when doing the main story quest, the "bands of the chosen" stoped working, i was wearing them, but they had changed to the arm wraps, so i was unable to enter the forbidden grotto.

i am not shure what caused this, just if someone might know a solution it would be nice to know (i am sorry if someone has allready posted this issue)

Hmm, well, that's even worse than the Arena Raiment nonsense. The scripts for the grotto check if the player is wearing FormID xyz.
Now when they got replaced by my scripts though you're no longer wearing this FormID of course but a new one.
Checks like this are a catastrophe to my scripting approach I admit. I could circumvent it by patching this check and implementing a second one based on a different method, like setting a flag somewhere while wearing the bands or maybe an enchantment-type mark on the wearer.
I wish there would be an easier way though.

Hmm, maybe the OBSE team could do something similar to what they did for GetRace, an "alias" assignment so for GetEquipped or IsWearing -type functions the CloneForm-ed records would return the FormID of the records they were cloned from. If something like this can even be done at all that is.

nah, dont really worry about it, i just thought there might be a small, easy to fix issue. i got past really easy, i just removed the force equip for the claws, and re-equiped the bands, no problem.

don't hate me too much for this idea, because thats all this is, and idea. but i was thinking..... i'm not shure if this fits with your lore and all, but is it possible for there to be a polymorph to full dragon form?

something like, cast a greater race power, massive burst of fire covers your charachter and when it clears theres a full dragon standing there instead of a human shaped dragon?

i know your busy, and im not asking you to do it, but is it actually possible?

The functionality I'd need to fix the Bands of the Chosen checks and similar ones was asked for in the OBSE thread.

On a related note, did you notice them adding an EquipItem2 function now triggering the OnEquip block of a scripted item? This is really great news as it removes the need for my patching the Arena Raiment checks included in SAF and my dragon race!... or was it even included in both? The OBSE devs never cease to amaze me!

As for the transforming into a fullscale feral dragon shape, this of course can be done. Even more so now that I don't have to stick to a humanoid skeleton for playable races any longer! Maybe I'll even add this as another step for shape shifting, when I finally get around to implement shape shifting that is... it's currently quite low on my list of priorities though. On the other hand, I just need to implement the race. The shape shifting can be achieved by using Wrye Morph already, like I always did in my earlier gameplays.

Though when my dragons shift shape they're not bursting in flames but glowing in bright white light, literally becoming a mass of light which is then morphing into the target shape, before finally dimming down again to reveal the new appearance. I'll at least try to achieve this effect when I'm doing shape shifting. This is the purest form of white magic, dragon magic, which is their essence and source of life, showing through. Depending on the type of transformation, and also the power level of the individual dragon, it can even be as blinding as the sun. So I think a cloud effect or maybe rather something like a sunflare or godrays to "hide" the equipment swapping would be in order.

On a sidenote... can you imagine my surprise when I saw the ascension effect of Martin in the ending scene? :rolleyes:

great to know it can be done though, on a completely un-related subject, i satarted playing morrowind on my laptop again..... brought back some memories.... harder than i remember though.

anyway, the fire suggestion was just because i had no idea of what you might like to make it. and what is this "wrye morph" sounds interesting

(no i cant imagine your suprise, as i was too busy admiring the awesomeness :woot:)

one last thing..... YEEEEES!!!! INITIATE RANK!

Wrye Morph, in the words of the script-monkey god himself, is "Complicated! Experimental! Uber! Prone to Conflicts! For Advanced Players Only!. In my words, a very interesting way of allowing a character to be more the one person. In fact, that's the intended use.
Wrye Morph is a mod which requires you to run a extra program in Wrye Bash to use it, and is quite possibly the best way of allowing the player to have different forms now, since we can now change the player's skeleton and therefore animations, so I'm guessing that one could make a convincing Lycanthropy mod now, with more options then just normal and hybrid, and more then just Wolves(say hello to Wereboars, Werebears, Weretigers, and of course, Wererats).
Of course, this is just me thinking. And ranting.
http://wryemusings.com/, http://wryemusings.com/Wrye%20Morph.html, and http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28563. Keep in mind that you need to read the instructions. And I mean REALLY have to. It's not something that the average player would ever use. Or even 99% of them, expect maybe those who understand what you can and can't do with it.
It'd be interesting to see this using it, it'll be a nice touch.

hmmmm.... due to my lack of mod knowledge, if you intend on putting this in, is it possible for you to relaease an "idiots" readme?

if not, then ile work it out eventually, when my computer is fixed though..... GAH! :brokencomputer: i now know a portion of your pain drake, dam i want my computer back....

Oh, I don't think you'll have to worry much about this.

Wrye Morph "was" exactly what I needed around a year ago, if I remember correctly.
By now it's a monster compared to that time. There's so much more functionality in it that you can easily loose track of everything.
It's not only changing race on-the-fly anymore between certain once-made new appearances... today it also allows you to become an "existing" someone else totally with all consequences and benefits. The game will "treat" you like that person and whatnot... that's way too much for my intentions.

If I'm going to use this approach, then I definitely won't use Wrye Morph itself in its entirety! I just need the way to change my race and that's it. No factions, no dispositions, no birthsigns, no nothing else of it. So I'll most likely just look how the very basics are done and use the external background-tool for the savegame editing to let it do my own stuff.
After all, Breeze's Seducers, if I'm not mistaken, are using the same thing either.

i had some spare time today, so i went looking for the part.... guess what? none in stock :shocking:

and there wont be for at least a week. :banghead:

anyway, great news to hear your making progress, you don't get anywhere without a decent idea of where you want to end up.

on a completely different note, i finished my newest animation! :celebrate: now i just gota fine tune out the kinks and i might think about uploading it somewhere