Dual-Wielding Claymores : V - Skyrim

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:27 pm

You can't just grab a sword in the middle of a blade.

Do you know what the hilt is? Please reevaluate your statement.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:44 pm

Claymore=kitchen knife? Did I miss something? I don't think that is a good argument. A claymore is simply too big(not heavy) to effectivly dual-wield.

Then you completely missed the point. A claymore is too large to be effective dual-wielded by someone not possessing the strength necessary, sure.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:42 pm

Do you know what the hilt is? Please reevaluate your statement.

Yes I am aware that a hilt is a handle. But my statement still stands. A claymore is so large(not heavy) That one handed strokes are not effective at best or not possible at worst. Unless you could some how hold the sword in the middle. But it is a sword so that makes no sense.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:47 pm

Being that a clamour is a two-handed weapon, we should be able to dual wield it, if we grow an extra two arms. Which doesn't seem likely.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:19 pm

Yes I am aware that a hilt is a handle. But my statement still stands. A claymore is so large(not heavy) That one handed strokes are not effective at best or not possible at worst. Unless you could some how hold the sword in the middle. But it is a sword so that makes no sense.

No, your statement does NOT stand. The hilt is NOT the middle of the blade.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:51 am

Apart from what he said afterwards was an argument.

The type of claymores seen in computer games are not balanced for one-handed combat, you'd never be able to wield them effectively in dual-wield, despite what you might have seen in Neverwinter Nights. Even the typical long sword can be hard to use effectively with one hand (tho possible), the large scottish two-handed claymore is called two-handed for a very specific reason... the other types of one-handed claymores would not reach the size of claymores that were say in Oblivion or that people think of when playing games. To put it in perspective when talking about holding a claymore, you have to remember the sword is likely to be almost as long as you, only a Zweih?nder would likely be longer. So it's not so much an issue of overall physical strength but the strength to hold the unbalanced weapon what would place most of the strain on your wrist... good luck not shattering your wrist from the continued strain of dual wielding claymores.

See this reply, archmage.

Then you completely missed the point. A claymore is too large to be effective dual-wielded by someone not possessing the strength necessary, sure.

No, I get your point. I just don't find anything realistic about it.
Quick question: Can you do this in WOW? Yes. Does that make it realistic? No.
Edit: Raw strengh is not everything and, from what I read here, not the issue with dual wielding 2-handed claymores. It is the balance and strain placed on the wrist.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:18 pm

:flamethrower:

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:34 pm

Well, it's not gonna happen. The way I imagine this working is the heavier the item you are trying to dual wield, the higher you have to raise a certain skill in order to use it. Daggers will require barely any skill at all - axes, maces, and short swords take a little more practice - and long swords are the final step. There will never be dual wielding weapons that were designed to be two handed. If there were, what would be the point of using it normally? It has to be balanced. I don't know what you are trying to push here because it should be clear by the poll, no one agrees with this idea. You're trolling.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:32 pm

No, I get your point. I just don't find anything realistic about it.
Quick question: Can you do this in WOW? Yes. Does that make it realistic? No.

We are not comparing this to WoW. It is certainly realistic for someone possessing the strength and stamina necessary to dual-wield two-handed weapons. Haven't you ever driven with one hand on the steering wheel? Same friggin' concept.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:46 pm

No, your statement does NOT stand. The hilt is NOT the middle of the blade.

That was not the point of my post. My point is that a claymore is too long to effectively wield with one hand.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:29 pm

That was not the point of my post. My point is that a claymore is too long to effectively wield with one hand.

No, your point was:

You can't just grab a sword in the middle of a blade.

When I said:

Why do you assume it would be held at the very end, and not at the top of the hilt?

a claymore is too long to effectively wield with one hand.

Not for someone possessing the strength to effectively wield with one hand.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:15 pm

I only want claymores to be two handed weapons, I mean weapons you grab with both hands, and maybe a perk could allow you to grab it with one of them...

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:19 pm

We are not comparing this to WoW. It is certainly realistic for someone possessing the strength and stamina necessary to dual-wield two-handed weapons. Haven't you ever driven with one hand on the steering wheel? Same friggin' concept.

A steering wheel isn't a big freaking sword that weighs a bunch.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:54 pm

We are not comparing this to WoW. It is certainly realistic for someone possessing the strength and stamina necessary to dual-wield two-handed weapons. Haven't you ever driven with one hand on the steering wheel? Same friggin' concept.

No, it's not. The steering wheel is an almost static item that wont put strain on your wrist or challenge your balance without proper skill. A claymore is far from static and will probably break your wrist if you try to DW it. Also see #38.
How many bad examples do you have to come up with before you realise it's not the same?

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:32 am

No, your point was:

When I said:

I am sorry then for failing at being sarcastic. The length of the sword makes dual claymores impossible.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:11 pm

A steering wheel isn't a big freaking sword that ways a bunch.

That's not the point, because anyone strong enough can wield a sword that weighs a bunch.

The argument everyone is making is that claymores are designed as two-handed weapons, and my point is that they can still be wielded in one hand by an individual possessing the necessary strength.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:45 pm

Apart from what he said afterwards was an argument.

The type of claymores seen in computer games are not balanced for one-handed combat, you'd never be able to wield them effectively in dual-wield, despite what you might have seen in Neverwinter Nights. Even the typical long sword can be hard to use effectively with one hand (tho possible), the large scottish two-handed claymore is called two-handed for a very specific reason... the other types of one-handed claymores would not reach the size of claymores that were say in Oblivion or that people think of when playing games. To put it in perspective when talking about holding a claymore, you have to remember the sword is likely to be almost as long as you, only a Zweih?nder would likely be longer. So it's not so much an issue of overall physical strength but the strength to hold the unbalanced weapon what would place most of the strain on your wrist... good luck not shattering your wrist from the continued strain of dual wielding claymores.

Now add that holding it is not enough, you also has to swing it fast enough to do more damage than a longsword and worst of all bee able to block with it.

Now add that Skyrim is not a turn based game, dual wield does not give you two strikes in a round, yes you would probably be able to use both weapons then the enemy open up but in this time critical situation you want fast weapons. A claymore in one hand will be more than twice as slow as standard.

I was more annoyed that I could not mount a fatman as a grenade launcher on a gatling laser, and that I could not dual wield them.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:21 am

archmage against the forums B)

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:59 pm

We are not comparing this to WoW. It is certainly realistic for someone possessing the strength and stamina necessary to dual-wield two-handed weapons. Haven't you ever driven with one hand on the steering wheel? Same friggin' concept.

It is NOT at all realistic, and it's not a matter of strength, but of design.
It's easy to hold a claymore in one hand.
But it's impossible to effectively use it like that.

You cannot wield a claymore with one hand any more than you can fire a gun with your tongue.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:31 pm

That's not the point, because anyone strong enough can wield a sword that weighs a bunch.

The argument everyone is making is that claymores are designed as two-handed weapons, and my point is that they can still be wielded in one very worthy hand.

Yes, it is designed as a two-handed and will therefor be too long. The balance point would be completely different from a longsword(which would be hard enough to DW).
There is no way ANY of the playable races can DW a claymore. It will be as long as you. Maybe a Xivilai could do it, but they are larger than the playable races(not much, but enough for a claymore to work more as a longsword).

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:49 pm

If you give me a link to a video with someone swinging two Claymore swords simultaneously without falling on their ass... I will vote yes.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:56 am

Why do you assume it would be held at the very end, and not at the top of the hilt?

Unless you are going to hold the claymore by the blade, it is a very very accurate representation of the situtation. A Claymore is about 120~140 CM, the blade is about 100~115CM. In other words the Hilt makes up about 17~22CM of the sword, less then a 1/6th of the total length of the sword. The hand of the Huge nord would probably be about 8~10CM meaning the mid point of the grip is even closer to the end of the weapon.

If you want Dual-wielded Claymores, do it as a mod, most of us do not want to see the possibility of enemy NPCs dual wield claymores.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:10 pm

Now add that holding it is not enough, you also has to swing it fast enough to do more damage than a longsword and worst of all bee able to block with it.

Now add that Skyrim is not a turn based game, dual wield does not give you two strikes in a round, yes you would probably be able to use both weapons then the enemy open up but in this time critical situation you want fast weapons. A claymore in one hand will be more than twice as slow as standard.

I was more annoyed that I could not mount a fatman as a grenade launcher on a gatling laser, and that I could not dual wield them.

Dual-wielded claymores would obviously have different strikes than longswords. Consider the mass and weight of the claymores, and force = mass * velocity. A 30 lb. claymore would need to move at nearly half the velocity of a 15-20 lb. longsword to create the same force. Of course they swing different due to their weight distribution, but that doesn't make them any less effective.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:01 pm

If you want Dual-wielded Claymores, do it as a mod, most of us do not want to see the possibility of enemy NPCs dual wield claymores.

Rather, we don't want to see the IMpossibility of dual wielded claymores.

» Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:53 pm

Rather, we don't want to see the IMpossibility of dual wielded claymores.

It is far from impossible. Feel free to continue thinking inside that box of yours.