goodie

Yeah I'm ok with no reflect damage though I'm probably not as opposed as you. It is a common theme in rpg games, but no skin off my back.

So what will decide which system they will use. I'd think that if the school of magic that you decide this should be in is not the focus of the NPC then they probably wouldn't be able to use this?

Combat Magic is suppose to be its own school, the only reason it is in any vanilla school is because a new one cannot be made in the CS. The primary reason I started working on this mod was because all oblivion magic users were woefully pathetic in combat. So keeping it out of the hands of "most" of the spell slingers would not do at all.

Combat Magic Practitioners will use the Omni Shield most of the time, and also a mix (about half and half) of their own spells such as vanilla fire balls or spells from other mods and the CM spells when the conditions in the combat are right. CM magic users will tend to not throw plasma balls if they are too close to you or their friends are in the blast area for example. This is already in my AI for this mod using tricks borrowed from my Combat Archery mod.

Think of it this way, in a martial society like medieval Japan or ancient Europe where combat is a way of life for all people, whether you were a farmer, or a merchant or even a servant you were still trained in basic H2H self defense by someone (family, mentor or school). So in Oblivion almost all magic users will use Combat Magic for self defense, but some will use it better than others. Creatures will NOT for the most part. So you will not see a scamp use CM but you will see vampires use it. My personal nightmare is stumbling over a Nosferatu vampire (from my vampire mod of the same name) that is also a Combat Magic Practitioner.

I have only won a few fights with such opponents, normal only after consuming many health potions in the fight.

Ohh OK - so then the magic school is just a formality of needing a category.

What about for the shield aspect alteration and for the plasma balls destruction? Or would you prefer them all in the same?

Will there be some who are better at the shield than the attack?

Sounds fun.

oh...wow...I had not thought that I could put them in different schools. I could I guess, that would be a lot more work, but then the school thing is just a formality as you said. The only effect it will have on the game is which skill gets credit when you cast the spells. So I will just keep them all in the destruction school.



Yes, as the power that can be put into the spells will be calc by factors like level, willpower, fatigue, intelligence etcetera as well as how skillfully they kinetically cast the spells. So different NPC will have different amounts of power that they CAN put in their attacks based on these attributes and ultimately limited by their magicka level. AND the shield may fail for the magic user if they miss judge their timing, so NPC with better agility and speed will be better at using their OS. Note that when I mod I always try NOT to just use a "dice roll" based on stats, I always try to avoid that kind of D&D crap. Instead I try to "set" their reaction time base on their stats. So timing for the NPC is not a random event, instead it is based on how fast they are, thier agility and how their fatigue is at the time. Meaning their is a reason that they succeed or fail not just a chance that they succeed or fail!

I believe all immersion type games in the future will be based on this concept, it only requires an understanding of the factors involved. As long as game developers seek out experts instead of just "guess" at the chances this will happen. Otherwise we will never be able to get to the "holodeck".





well... I hope so ...at least for those players that are of the same mind as I am. This primarily is a POC project but because it is magic and not mêlée combat I have more room to make it fun rather than "realistic". However my core principle is to make it FEEL "realistic" by using the same universal fundamentals that are in real mêlée combat.

wow...good and bad news...

I finally found what was causing my CTD issue while working on this mod.
Turns out it was Pluggy.

Very bad news as I liked the one and only mod (a map mod) in my load order that needed pluggy to work.
But no mod is worth frequent CTD.

Once I took Pluggy out my Combat Magic mod ran rock solid for hours (on and off) with no CTD.

Why is that bad news? It would seem great for you that this mod is not the cause. Pluggy crashes are anything but uncommon around these parts.

Which mod was it - Mini-Map? More people report problems with Pluggy mods that add HUD items.

Map Marker Overhaul 3p3

But, maybe it is somehow the combination of OBSE beta 19 + Pluggy?
The very first time I loaded beta 19 I got a crash when loading savegames, I made a report that the new 19 command I as using was the issue.
But scruggsywuggsy the ferret could not duplicate my CTD using the script I had. So as I was too busy with RL to really dive into the issue I just dropped the subject and took out 19 at that time.

Later after beta 19 got revised I put it back in thinking what ever the issue was may be fixed. At first I did not see the CTD, all was fine for a short time but then I started seeing frequent CDT, mostly on game save loads, but also often in the game in combat.

So, I finlay removed pluggy and ... no more CTD...and no more Map Marker Overhaul. :shrug:

I use MMO without Pluggy - as I understand it Pluggy is only required if you want to back up your map markers for the purpose of adding map markers to any old spot on the ground. From the readme:
So no worries - I mean with a well explored world - does one really need to to add map markers? I don't use it.

Besides I use Hoarfrost castle which provides a fast travel network and another magic overhaul I use (forget which) give mark and recall spells.

oh, ok....still it is too bad about Pluggy, I seem to remember other cool mods that need it.

But this is one of the many reasons I shy away from dependencies. Except for OBSE I believe (if memory serves me ) I only have ONE dependency for ONE of my mods (for cleaning up clones to prevent place at me save game bloat) that being the double arrow knock mod. I like the KIS principle for running the game.

For my personal game if I see a mod with more than 1 dependency that I do not already have on my PC I skip it no matter how freaking "cool" it seems to me. I just do not have time to learn all the modding skills needed to do what I do AND spend the time to become a "expert player" the way you are Psymon. :shrug:

Halloween is almost here, then back to "full time" modding! I am not running a Haunted House this year so I am "free" on Halloween night this year. (that is good and bad)


So far Combat Magic is running rock solid now.
Off the top of my head this is what I have left to do:

Give the NPC the H2H features. Done pending any bugs that pop up.

Clean up some of the scripts by organizing the variables, eliminating redundant variables and putting some of the scripts into user User-Defined Functions (I LOVE those now, wish I knew about them sooner!). 20% so far

Make the "quest" to give the player COMBAT MAGIC in the game. 0% so far

Finish the scripts that eliminates "Reflect Damage" from the game (80% done with this).

Try a few more ideas to get the NPC magic users to obey my custom Combat Styles (so far they have ignored my custom styles and I have no idea why). ?% so far

Teak all settings for game balance. 50% done so far

Create an INI file for as many settings in my mod as I can do easily without making the INI file too big and without harming the Basic goal of my mod. 0% so done far.


But I will have an ALPHA for some players to test while I am making the quest. I only need to finish the other punch items on my list (see above) first.

We've all been bummed with Pluggy issues for over a year now. Maybe report the issue to Hamma.

I try not to use it and the only mod I'm going to try with this new Oblivion clone that requires if is Fearsome Magicka because it is in turn required by Alternate Magic System.

MMO is great though without Pluggy - just can't make a new map marker ... very minor to me.

There are times I'd trade places with you though - bring some of my own ideas to life instead of requesting and complaining. I'm more of a playtester-crash pilot when it comes down to it ... and I look forward to this.

Is it possible the melee will ever support wearing shields and weapons? The loss of rings isn't so bad, but unarmed too is a big hit to enchantment possibilities. I like staves on some of my magic-users

er....umm...HUH?

Either I am misunderstanding what you are saying or you misunderstand what has been said.

H2H means NO WEAPONS. So to use the Combat Magic H2H features you will not have any mêlée weapons or staves or bows in your hands. I am really not sure what you are asking.

The other features that are not H2H "features" such as the OS and casting plasma spells or doing a ghost dodge do not require you to drop your staff or put down your sword.

I may (MAY) not allow the use of a shield if you want to use the OS but only because it looks silly using both. However if players do not mind how silly it looks I will not do this.

I was just wanting your thoughts on the possibility of expanding the H2H features to take on a different aspect when wielding a weapon, something that a mage would use, like a staff (of course Battlemages use anything). And yes, I also believe wearing a normal shield would look silly, but then the "shields" I would be equipping have staff models.

I have no thoughts one way or the other on that at this time, but that may be because I am only concerned now with getting what I have out to beta first.





mmmm... very good point. I guess I will make this a choice then in the INI file, thank you for helping me to see that issue more clearly.

Duke-

Will the plasma balls from this mod be the kind of magic that can be absorbed by the Atronach birthsign?

ummm...I....dont..know for sure.

It is a scripted spell not a normal one, but I think such spells still can be abosrbed....but I really am not sure one way or the other on that.

Tomorrow I will release an alpha version of the mod for a few players to try out while I continue to work on this mod. The alpha will have a few small issue that I know of and will probably have some bugs.
Please do report the bugs but also keep in mind this is not the beta yet (for bug hunting) so bugs may not get addressed right away.

The alpha will still need the following work done before it is released as a beta. The main 2 issues are that there are slow downs once in a while (the game freezes for a split second) that are caused I think by the redundant projectile reference list each actor uses. I want to instead make a master array list that all the actors and the player will use instead, but I dont know how to completely do this yet so I will need to ask the OBSE guys about this.

And the second issue is that sometimes the player attack and movment controls are disabled when the player is hit by large amounts of damage in one hit such as with the plasma balls.
You can correct this issue by going into a menu then out again. I know what I am looking for (concerning this bug) I just have not yet found it in the scripts.


I also need to clean up some of the scripts by organizing the variables. 80% done

Make the "quest" to give the player COMBAT MAGIC in the game. 0% so far

Create an INI file for as many settings in my mod as I can do easily without making the INI file too big and without harming the basic goal of my mod. 20% done so done far.

Teak settings for game balance. 50% done so far but I may wait on this until the beta release to get a little player feedback first.

get the alpha here:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23541

the file is called

TESTONLY

Password to open the zip file is

abracadabra


Hurry as I will be removing it soon!

oops sorry if you downloaded the "testonly" file already delete that zip and get the one called

testonly2

"Testonly" file had a stop in the script that only allowed the player to use the Omni Shield. That was just for testing only and I forgot to take it out before I uploaded the file.

Hi,

Thank you so much for sharing this in it's alpha stage, I have been looking forward to this mod since I first saw this thread, and funnily enough was searching for your combat mods.

I'll be doing a fresh install tomorrow, and this mod is top of my list of trying out.

I'm a bit caught up in Real Life things at the moment, how ever I will give it a good few hours of testing when I can and feedback to you.

Thanks once again :clap:

oh for pete's sake...

The npc are still not using their OS. I am trying to find out what changed from last week. Once I do and I confirm they are using their OS I will upload the alpha again as testonly3.

Sorry about this annoyance, but I am having a lot of trouble getting things done, our connection has become very bad (my Internet provider Time Warner is either incompetent or massively throttle our connection ) and it takes me 10 times longer to get anything done at this time. I cannot even download a simple python update driver in less than 15 minutes. It has been like this for weeks but slowly getting worse each week. Now it is intolerable and I may be dropping Time Warner so I may disappear from the net for a short time.

found it, I added a check for swimming and being underwater but the check was used backwards by accident.

So now download file "testonly3" WORKS.

I cleaned out a few files that were "working files" but not needed to run the mod from the zip package as well, so now it will slightly smaller to download.


get the alpha rev 3 here:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23541
the file is called

TESTONLY3

Password to open the zip file is

abracadabra

Hey, someone please let me know if you see any of the momentary game freezing (a quick shudder once in a while in combat) using this mod. I am have a hard time isolating the root of the issue and I am now wondering if maybe it is not this mod doing it.

OK a little background before my report.

I currently run three different load orders and have three different installs thanks to Gaticus and http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1119357-wipz-mtes4-manager/ (you might like it - not a tool like Wrye Bash - it is much simpler but very powerful - it will allow you to clone your install including game profile folder, app data folder, and main game directory) then swap between them. A great thing for modders who also want to play (have one clone for modding that is stripped down and have one for playing with mods galore). I of course use it to play more than one load order.

So with the ability to not have to feel tied to 'the perfect load order' I created a kind of experimental load order and character that is kinda new for me to play. He is a Dark Elf with the Atronach birthsign - which means he does not regenerate magicka on his own. That is the vanilla behavior, but I also added mods to accentuate this behavior. The mod http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1075687-relz-applers-passive-birthsigns/ alters the Atronach with these features:
I also included a mod called http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=31918 that removes all spell buying from the game and assigns spells to you according to skills and path you choose when the mod starts. You can still learn from books and scrolls and from unique merchants, etc. These combine to make a very difficult game with regard to magic use. My overall aim was to play an assassin type who then takes to magic later and finds, craft, commission jewelry that boost magicka faster than it drains from him. Plus alchemy and all that.

Normally the character does not have magicka at all as it drains away unless near sources of magic or it is cast near or at him. Not only does he absorb it but when he tops off he starts to shoot magick bolts out in all directions then collapses to start again until away from the magic source. Currently the character is far away in the mod Windfall and no where near the Arcane University, nor part of the mages guild.

Now the report.
With my hotkey mod I usually have the spell I use set to shield (which he can't normally cast anyway). After installing this and at each game load the default spell suddenly is always set to the Magic Kit spell. Not sure why but I've hit cast not realizing that once again it was defaulted to the magic kit. Is this intentional? I'd prefer it not be as I think most will hotkey it.

As soon as the spell is cast immediately the character starts gaining magicka and as per the passive birthsign mod starts shooting out bolts of magic heading toward collapse. He can cast the plasma arcs which look like really cool lightning bolts. But the trend is that he gains magicka faster than he can spend it unless he shoots plasma balls (about three then he is drained of all magicka again) he will go into overload. If he does not get rid of magicka and the Magicka Overload bolts form Passive Birthsign mod kicks in then he appears to charge up as if about to shoot a plasma ball but but it only fizzles out and no shot and then he has to wait out the overload (this does not happen normally with passive birthsign mod). So does this mod have spell failure chance? Or it could be the overload bolts are counting as casted magic bolts and overriding/preventing the casting of plasma. (I hope not).

Next the omni shield. It works, but only when no shield is equipped. I thought I'd read it will work with a shield. It drains at a slow speed, so that seems somewhat normal.

My main question is - is the magicka gain part of this mod? If so then does this happen even with vanilla version of Atronach birthsign as well. This I'd like to know prior to taking apart or out the passive birthsign mod. Or maybe an issue with the mod or something I'm not understanding. In the console I see Spell 'Fix Fake Magic Items' added followed by Spell 'Fix Fake Magic Items' removed repeating the removed part. This coincides with the magicka gain. Tes4edit tells me they are from this mod, but not what they do.

I understand that using as many mods as I do that issues like this arise and I'm not asking you to change or cater to these other mods. I'm just wanting to understand what I'm seeing so I can know how to proceed with either edits to one mod or other or removal, etc. I have your mod set to load later (after bashed patch as per usual and all other magic mods).

Also I need to test this last observation out more but I could have sworn my character absorbed magicka from damaged arrows (made by combat archery mod) that were laying on the ground. That seems odd. [edit] yeah without doubt broken arrows are a source of magicka for passive birthsigns.

No freezing or stuttering though, but haven't yet fought a magic user.

[edit] I'm kinda seeing now that I might have to ditch the passive birthsign mod due to conflcits with two mods now. And since it is not supported all the more reason. Problem is if I cannot reset either another birthsign and powers in there after taking it out then that means a new game. Only 8 hours into this game so not the end of the world.