Question: Will disabling "set A1RunBackAndFall.BackwardSpeedMod to .5" by setting it to zero disable just the slow running backwards or also the falling?

I think it may be interacting with OOO reduced backwards running and causing weird speed attribute fluctuations that sometimes get stuck.

edit: correction, it's Fran's that has the reduced backwards running. I found a mod that is supposed to disable that, so hopefully that will allow your script to work properly.

A1RunBackAndFall.BackwardSpeedMod when set to zero disables ONLY the "slower" running backwards.

Not the falling.

OK, Showler and I discovered an impassable obstacle at this time for trying to use the arrow as a dagger in the manner I would want to do it. So I am putting this idea in cold storage and moving on to my idea to allow the player to fire two arrows at once.

Now, please do not get too excited, this trick is not as devastating to your opponents as you might think. The power from the bow is split (very inefficiently) into the two arrows so each arrow does much LESS damage than if you only fired one arrow. And your accuracy suffers! The only advantage of doing this trick (this is a real life archery trick shot by the way) is to try to hit more than one target at the same time.

So far my research tells me I will not be able to show two arrows loaded on the bow at the same time. Once you fire your arrow you will see two arrows flying out and drifting away from each other.

The only "practical" way to show two arrows on the bow is to only allow the player to do this with a certain type of arrow.

So what is best for you, one special arrow type and you can see two arrows loaded on your bow.

Or any arrow you want but you only see one loaded on your bow?

I assume you'll make this some sort of multi-shot skill? Maybe a perk?

If so, I would think there would have to be a selection made with a modifier key or something, so the Player would be aware of choosing the double-shot without seeing it on his/her bow.

I'd vote for being able to use it with any arrow. I'm already used to forgiving the game's weird interpretations of how weapons look and work.

How about the idea of being able to fire two different types of arrows either at the same target or different but close targets?

So you could double the magic at the cost of what the normal damage is.

How would you do that without interrupting the flow of battle?

I can easily see some key being setup to cause you to fire a double shot of your currently equipped arrows (might be useful for persistent dodgers), but with two types of arrows you'd need to either set them up ahead of time, or jump into your inventory to choose the two arrows you wanted to fire.

I don't even think it would be possible in real life to shoot two arrows from the same bow unless the bow was designed for it. I've not heard of it - except in Green Arrow comic books (Hawkeye for you non-believers). Much less getting a shot off that could actually hit two discreet targets ... lemme see ... I stand corrected:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2Mf6Axw0lI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkbtVcuvU2M - well they both hit the same target.

Well as far as accessing two arrows - why must one assume that each quiver must only have the arrows of that type. What if it was a split quiver or you had a way of feeling the flights to tell which was which? Or have the second arrow pre-set or second quiver pre-set.

Really though - you can pause all combat to access inventory for anything - so that is always the immersion breaker.

Just a suggestion.

I didn't mean to talk down your idea, I just wondered if you had thought through some of the mechanics. A lot of times when someone has wondered about a mod possibility, they've already done a surprising amount of thought about how to implement it.

I certainly agree with you about the quivers. One of Oblivion's many absurdities. I'm hoping that SkyRanger-1 will continue work on his Super Hotkeys mod because I've suggested the addition of an ammo cycler so that you can quickly switch arrow types.

Which brings up one possible mechanic for your idea: 1) Have an arrow type selected, press and hold the "double-shot selector key", press attack and you fire two of the current arrow.

2) Have an arrow type selected, press and hold the "double-shot selector key", press your ammo cycler hotkey till you get to your new arrow type, press attack and you fire one of the originally selected arrow and one of the last selected arrow.

I moved this discussion about the Double arrow knock mod to it's own thread.

see it here:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1083824-wip-knocking-two-arrows-at-once/page__pid__15792527__st__0&#entry15792527

Hi there. I love the things the combat archery actually does to combat but a single issue really starts to anoy me and forces me to remove the mod from my load list. Every time i load a game for a moment everything is fine i start a combat block blows ok but if i use a bow or an npc uses one something goes wrong with blocking and each time i block my character gets staggered.It might be a script fault and i tried to look it through but looks like I'm no scripter. I'm sure it's the plugins fault becouse when i unload it everything is fine. I really love the things Duke Patrick does with this game and i want to use this mod so please help!!

@ tulib202

I am not sure what you are saying, do you mean that when you block a Melee weapon with a bow you are staggered? But that will not happen if the mod is not loaded?

Or do you mean block arrows?
If you are trying to block arrows without a shield (trying to use your bow) then yes you will take damage and thus get staggered unless your block skill is very very high or the arrow damage is very low.

But if you mean block Melee attack, no one else has reported this issue.
So please as a test load ONLY my mod (no other mod) and start a new game.

If this works with no issue then it is a mod conflict.

But I bet the issue is that you are trying to block arrows with your bow.

Nah it's not blocing arrows that's the thing I'll describe it better

The game loads i run around get in to a melee fight sword shield my block skill is very high about 95 the same as with agility and other thing s that make you stagger less i block attacks well (nothing new) but after i use a bow or an enemy uses one something changes( maybe a script does this) but once i swith back to my sword and shield and try to block attacks (my blocks seem to be sucessfull but once my shield has taken the blow i get knocked back aka. staggered i get staggered so often then it's imposible to play, breaks my game really) a mere goblin can stagger me which never hapened before i also noticed that npc have the same problem as me at the attempt of block they take more damage than usuall or get staggered very often which didn't happen before, when i didn't use this mod. Oh and btw i made a test myself unloaded all the mods and left duke patrick's combat archery the problem was still there. I tried removing scripts from the mod and it seems that a single script causes this after i removed the script everything was fine. Hope this wil help you identify the cause:)

OK this is the cause of my problem it's a spell in the esp of duke patrick's combat archery mod and it's called aadpMomHeTouchedME with a script effect that causes my char to staggger if anyone has experienced the same issue just delete that spell from the esp and everything will run just fine.

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/Tescs#The_Construction_Set_v1.2 would probably work a little better.

I doubt that particular section is causing your problem.

The condition checks above it show it should only happen if the NPC is using a bow, you are right in front of them, they are attacking at that moment, you aren't and they have better hand to hand skills.

I would guess it's meant to simulate an archer knocking you back with his hands when you get too close, but only if they are a better h2h fighter than you are.

If taking that out fixed your problem, I can only guess it's because you didn't remove it cleanly and the script is actually stopping at that point and never getting to whatever is causing your problem.

Since you have another mod that changes Block gamesettings, and I don't think those gamesettings get reset if you disable that mod, I'd try starting a new game without Better Blocking enabled and see if you can reproduce the bug then.

The problem was there all the time before i started to use better blocking.I had D.P.C.A. since v1.6 and i've got this bug ever since .I just thought that better blocking will overwrite some sethings and will get the problem done but i was wrong. BTW removing the sript doesn't change anything(i could delete the main script but that would be like unloading the esp:D) the only thing that works and still let's the plugin work is removing one of these two esp entries:

- cell/block 1/sub-block 6/warehouse activator/aadpPlayerArrowZone
- spell/aadpMomHeTouchedME

after removing them i seem to get the denock feature disabled along with the trip over items while running back and the new bow sounds.
The ai tweaks seem to run fine though and the stagger problem is gone too.

I'd like to have all the features enabled if possible could someone help in any way?

I've started a new game with duke patricks combat archery esp only and the problem is still there even with block skill 100 and agility 80.

The problem is more visible in my game and thats becouse i'm using the no recoil animation for npcs provided by duke patrick from his combat mod. Makes combat a LOT BETTER and fluid (cant imagine playing without it:) But anyway belive me the problem is there and I'm calling the autor please look this through!!!!

If you are using any modified KF files from the that old Melee combat mod (silver edition) you have in fact NOT done a clean save. The mod is still loaded (part of it anyway).

As I have been saying for a year now that THAT mod (silver edition) has a serious bug in it and should not be used at all.

The only official mods I distribute and support are on TesNexus, if you get any of my mods from any other web site it is against my wishes, you should not be using it and it will likely be buggy and you will get no help from me to use it! Sorry, but I have too little modding time these days to spend time on troubleshooting a mod that I do not wish to be used. :shrug:

Delete the Melee mod completely (also delete the KF files) start a new game and then you will not have the issue as long as there is no other conflict with another mod.

I was considering uploading a mod that JUST removes the recoil from the game (done by scripting not with buggy KF files) If this will help you I will do this. I was the first to do the NO recoil thing many years ago and other modders (at that time) told me back then it could not be done. The way Oblivion does "Block Recoil" was the most unrealistic and infuriating thing I hated about the game so it was "find a way to get it out of the game" or stop playing the Oblivion for me. I found a way to do it with the KF files but at that time I was a new modder and tinkered with the KF files the way a chimp would do brain surgery!

But with the newest OBSE it can now be done with scripting, and is far better!

Wow that would be great man I'd give you a huge hug if you could do that:D (remove recoil by sripts) gues that would remove my issue as im ussing the kf anims/meshes only not the whole mod:) i just did modifications to combat styles myself for npc so they can fight better without recoil. "The way Oblivion does "Block Recoil" was the most unrealistic and infuriating thing I hated about the game so it was "find a way to get it out of the game"" thats exactly what i thought too actually i've spend a lot of time to be able to remove those and eventually found out that the best way was to use your kf's for npcs and remove recoil animations from creatures it worked like a charm though:D Until this very recent bug.
Oh and BTW I've got an idea for your future no recoil obse mod :
if you could replace the recoil with another block animation so it would seem like the char is blocking different angled blows( if you get what i mean, you know like one block at the left one at the right ),combining that with something like a hit detection script would be really amazing , and man you do really wonderfull things to combat in oblivion try doing this one last bit!!

Duke Patrick, do you think the Dremora Field Arrows may be a little overpowered?

In vanilla, they are a little lower than Steel, about equivalent to Iron. In my current game, Steel does 18 damage, and the Dremora Field Arrows do 70.

Dremora Arrows shouldn't be as good as Daedric ones (though I haven't come across any of them yet, thank god).

As you probably already know Daedric is just another name for Daedra.
Dremora are a type of Daedra. Both are in the class of "god like".

So if the Dremora arrows damage is "about" the same as Daedric (arrows made by Daedra ) that is intended as both are in the same class of "god like" craftsmanship.

My arrow formula (unlike the bow formula that is now in this mod) was not intended to mirror or "be a multiple of" Oblivions damage allocations, instead it runs a set of rules based on the physics of the materials used to make the arrows and modified by general levels of craftsmanship.

My mod team and I put way too much work into researching the materials and lore and developing the arrow rules for my previous archery mod to just throw this all away for this new mod.

Those that are into pseudo physics (simulation) for games rather than fantasy physics should use the arrow formula. It attempts to add an underlining logic to attributes of the arrows. But if you prefer to just roll with Oblivions game attributes just turn this off int he INI. That is why I made it an optional feature.

The vanilla bows are unfortunately almost just arrow "exits from inventory" . The weight differences are almost insignificant because they are not heavy Melee weapons and the health MUST match the damage the bow can dish out because the bow inflicts damage to itself each time you fire it based on the damage the bow applies to the arrows. So even health is "locked in".

And without using my mod there is no difference in reload speed (Rate of fire). In fact all the bows in the game are set to the same speed in the CS and even when you try to change this to try to get different rates of fire with the bows, alas in the game it will not change the rate of fire. The developers just did not go that extra "mile" in hard coding this to work.

So I did not mind giving up my physics based formula for the bows. However the attributes for arrows really do express themselves in the game, so it was important to to me to keep this physics based formula for the arrows.

Hello, Duke Patrick.

I understand your reasoning for the Dremora Arrows and am happy to accept it. Though I'm now a little scared to see what a Daedric Arrow is going to do to me

Hope you don't mind, but I was poking around in your scripts trying to get a handle on how the arrow stats are determined. Interesting stuff, actually. You're a helluva better scripter than I am.

I did notice one thing while in there: NameIncludes "dwemar" Weapref has a typo for "dwemer". Won't matter for vanilla, but might have an impact on people who have renamed the Dwarven stuff and mods that add new Dwemer arrows.

I was also wondering if, while you're in that script anyway, you'd be interested in looking at the MMM Hunting and Crafting arrows: http://pages.suddenlink.net/corepc/#_Section_3:__Ammo:__Required_Materia

The bone arrows are already covered by your script, but the Obsidian, Carved Antler, Daedroth Tooth and Ogre's Tooth arrows are not getting adjusted for materials, and the Flinthead may be getting too much of a boost (I suspect the "flint" check in your script is for a different Flint Arrow since it's in the same grouping as the gem based arrows).

No push, just thought I'd mention it since H&C is popular and the information is easily available.

Very reasonable request.

Can you help by making me a clear matrix like list (PM me or email me a txt or word doc) with your suggestions (such as Antler = bone) of all the materials you think should be covered?
I will boil your list down (or use it as is) and update the mod formulas.

Thanks for the tip on the typo as well!

Those are all MMM Hunting and Crafting materials if I'm not mistaken.

With those and the old Archery mod bone arrows were lousy but obsidion and I think flint (not sure) were really powerful (80+ damage).

That would be way cool if recognition could get incorporated.

I'm looking into it, but it's late here so I'll continue tomorrow.

I'll see if I can balance the materials/craftsmanship calculations in order to get a nice balance between what was intended and what makes the most sense. Looks like it won't be too hard to do. I've got some information, just need to work the calculations so I know where things will end up.