I have a suggestion for the shield bash- why not use GetRaceScale and GetRaceWeight in the formulae? That way, larger races like Orcs and Nords are harder to knock down, which I think would make a lot of sense.

I just tried your mod out- it's fantastic. Arrows are dangerous now. They make your heart beat speed up and your blood pound in your ears. If you are facing more than one archer, and you get hit, you are dead. Absolutely dead. Criticals feel incredible. There's nothing quite like the thrill of watching a fully armored swordsman running at you while you are standing still with bow drawn. Then, the moment before he cuts you to pieces, you let fly and take him out with a perfect headshot.

One thing I haven't been able to use effectively in combat is the leg shot. If I hit anyone's leg, they die immediately. I was playtesting, so I was messing with my character's stats constantly, which might have made me a bit powerful, but even at very low marksman skills, medium strength and weak bows and arrows, a leg shot was a one hit kill. Not sure if that's intended or not.

Keep up the good work!

At level one your dead - yeah. But you can add taking another hit for about every 7 levels.

Watch your back and search out Duke's other active mods to support this.

Hey, I don't know if this is intended but I just downloaded the mod and installed it, but noticed something. When I draw an arrow my fatigue is raised to an insane amount, like 634555 or something, and then my fatigue drains (because I am drawing the bow), to something like -3456, so my character doesn't get up.. Any ideas on this?

Edit: I did some fiddling around with mods and such and it still happens, only on my character. My brother's character works fine, no ridiculous fatigue increases or anything. As soon as I equip any bow on my Argonian, my fatigue skyrockets and it just doesn't work very well, because every time I pull back on a bow I fall down with negative 3000 fatigue.

Any ideas? Your mod looks fantastic!

Duke Patricks Combat Archery Mod REV 1.3
OBSE 18 or better needed.

Rev 1.3
Found and fixed the "Run and Walk at you but no attack" bug.
Also Fixed "Always dodge to the right" bug.
And now VERY powerful bows have a chance to penetrate Shields when the NPC tries to block them.

I am using OBSE 18. Hmm, setting my fatigue after equipping the bow and having the insane fatigue boost, it seems to work okay.. But I am worried setting my fatigue through the console might mess up my character.

Did you just upload a new version ?

Edit: Still happens, but only with this character.. Rather confusing.

This is why I did not want to use Modav type commands.

It can conflict with some fatigue and exhaustion or stat mods.

I prefer to use drain spells, but the players in the WIP thread wanted it this way, so I am sorry I do not know what to say at this time.

What is your load order?
Maybe we can spot the conflicting mod.

Here is my load order:

Oblivion.esmOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esmArmamentarium.esmKT_CustomRaceFix.esp_Ren_BeautyPack_full.espCyrodiil transportation network 1.3.espElaborateEyes-RensBeautyPackFull.espPortable Campsite - Quickstart.espactors_in_charge.espKobu's Character Advancement System.espStealthOverhaul.espBloody_Mess.espBanes Anvil Merchant Upgrade.espLost Paladins of the Divines.espWayshrines in the University.espRealSwords - Argonian LO-NPC.espThieves Arsenal.espArmamentariumVendors.espExnem1 Moonwell and Mystic Night Elf.espOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.espTreeHomeKielanai.espZOMBIES! -  28 days and a bit V2.espHTHAdvanced - Normal.espJudgement of the Nine.espWayshrine Map Markers.espPaladin Spells.espMidasSpells.espSide's Sailing Ships.espzzEstrus.espDuke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.espHTS-WithMessages.espSupremeMagicka.espSM_Scrolls.espSM_SigilStone.espSM_EnchantStaff.espSM_NoSpellLights.espSM_OOO.espSM_UnlockSpells.espLycanmoon.espDuke Patricks - Combat Archery.espDuke Patricks - BASIC Script Effect Silencer.esp

The mods I am thinking would be HTS (hunger thirst sleep) or Kobu's character advancement.

Edit: I disabled Kobu and it still occurred.. I know I keep stressing it but I can't figure out why it's only affecting my character and not others.

I would rather not go thru the entire thread again, but the quick answer is that I already looked at using scale over a year ago
to try to judge size and it is not always applicable for all actors.

This was back when I was working on my mod where large creature could bat you around like a rag doll.

This is not just my opinion, this was the opinion of far far better modders than I.

For example Nords and Orcs are the exact same weight and scale in the CS. And we know that is not true!
Also anyone can make a giant race for example and set the weight and racescale to 1 in the CS.
Or even .5 or anything they want to type in the CS.

AND many creatures that are VERY LARGE (like a horse) are set to a scale of 1 when placed in the game.

Strength and speed is the only universal method that is always applicable.
So that is what I will always use. :shrug:

This is your entire list?
Really?

Yeah, I do not see anything that jumps out at me right now.

You did do a clean install after removed the Kobu mod you spoke of right?

Are you saying that all your characters are using the same load order?

But only one has the issue?
That has to be a corruption of the save game then, but I am 100% sure what is going on in your case.

Yup, that's all it is! Same load order for both characters. I am considering making a new character, anyway, just for this mod haha. Only what, 20 hours of game time anyway. Maybe a marksman assassin.. Anyway I do not mean to go off topic!

Duke, do you recommend using this with your SCA Combat w/ No Recoil 4.5 mod? If so, would you load it before or after the archery mod?

oh, I forgot, in rev 1.3

Now VERY powerful bows have a chance to penetrate Shields when the NPC tries to block them.

After playing (not just testing) I have new recommendations for the defaults in the INI:

;set from 1.1 up to 10 to scale all bow damage!
;Default is 7
set aadpBowFixQuest.BowScale to 7


;set to 0 to prevent Fatigue burn for drawing the bow.
;Default is .007
set aaDPSCABOWSWAYquest.DrawBowFatigueMod to .007


The damage reduction is because of the critical hits.
This critical hit thing adds a whole new dimension to the combat that I did not realize was missing form the game!

Changing the INI file sometimes requires a clean install or you will get CTD.

Anyway as I got the major known bugs squashed (I think) I will be playing Bio-shock 2 for a few days.
( I love the libertarian back story, only brought down by sabotage! ...oh yeah!)

But Psymon is about the next best thing for answering questions on my mods.
In some cases he knows my mods beter than I do...

He is a busy guy but if he has time, he may be able to help.

I will be back in a few days.

Psymon, please Email me if you have any other issues.

Ok, well turns out it might not be your mod causing this change.. I disabled it, and as soon as I equip any bow, my fatigue just goes crazy..

Sorry if I missed this, but I couldn't find it anywhere in your post:

Should I deactivate "FCOM_Archery.esp" if I am using this mod?

Allstarn08-

Questions about FCOM&MOBS are what has tried Duke's patience with regard to me. He does not use an overhaul. I've struggled with this issues off and on for a year.

MY advice it to turn it off as Duke's mod will handle it and much more provided you follow the advice to load this after the bashed patch (I think that is still the advice).

Any weapon stats changing mods that are bashed and have tags (for weapon stats) could mess with the weapon stats that this mod my give. I've seen stacked stats or much more increased stats with Duke's old archery mod loaded prior to bash because of this.

This mod will account for much more of that than will MOBS or FCOM archery will.

I don't think load order matters much. This mod adjusts bow damage much in the same way as Enhanced Economy adjusts prices - both do it by reading the current value, applying a modifier and then writing the new value back. This happens at run-time (in gamemode), so the load order is completely irrelevant (for this, it may be relevant for other parts of the mod).

So if you use this together with "FCOM_Archery.esp", the latter will increase bow damage at load time, and then Duke's mod will adjust them by the multiplier (default 7), with an end-result of way too powerful bows. If you however think "FCOM_Archery.esp"'s adjustments are fine, you can use it and just set the multipliers in Duke's mod to 1.


The great advantage of moving from changing the records at load time, to using OBSE to change the values in scripts, is a greatly enhanced compatibility with other mods, and much less reliance on load order.

Hmm - well it used to be with the last version in the POC there were a lof of bow records that were directly altered much like a patch. And then Duke added scripting on top of that.

I haven't opened this in tes4edit to see if that has changed.

My previous experience of with the last version and FCOM_Archery was extremely escalated damage stats.

need to check that out ...

[edit] and yeah this newer version has no weapon damage stats at all. So I guess load order would matter less. It used to be with the older version the goal was to have it after bash because with FCOM archery and other MOBS/OMOBS stats that these patches would be merged into bash and you would override Duke mods if Duke was loaded prior to bash. Then the scripting version would operate on top of that.

I still very much recommend disabling all FCOM_archery. The ini with this can address all that and more.

I guess I agree. Now, I haven't checked FCOM_archery (and cannot here at work), but I guess that one raises the bow damage individually for different bows, while the Combat Archery mod does a flat multiplier. Now, there are (dis-)advantages with both methods.

Doing it per bow record at load time (FCOM_archery), means finer control, but also that it only works for the bows in master esp/esm, and no possibility of adjustment according to taste.
Doing it in a script like Combat Archery does, means that it automatically works for all bows in the game, and it allows the user to set its own multiplier in the ini.

So I guess that if a user think FCOM_archery's individual setting is the best, he can use this and disable Combat Archery's adjustments in the ini, though I fully agree that for most players, using this mod only, is the best (I will).

There seems to be a glitch. Everytime I am bartering with bow equipment I havent used before, only the old, vanilla values are shown.
As soon as I buy them and sell them again, the new values are shown.

Do only I do have this glitch?

Getting this mod to update the values of the bows merchants have for sale is no easy task, as the bows may be spread around numerous containers, in the merchant's inventory, or just free in the cell. I know quite a lot about this, because Enhanced Economy updates the values of all items for sale. Combat Archery could of course replicate what EE does, but that is quite complicated code spread around several scripts, and it also would make the two incompatible when it comes to repricing, and since I want to use both, I wouldn't like that.

But I have an idea. Duke Patrick, if you are interested, I known a way that I can get Enhanced Economy to call the few lines in your mod that adjust bows, and do so for all bows possibly for sale when a merchant is activated. This way, EE and your mod will be 100% compatible, and you will be guaranteed that all bows for sale have stats correctly adjusted by your mod. It will not make either mod dependent on the other, and if your mod is used without EE, it will work exactly as before this change.

PM me (or take it here, I don't mind) if you're interested. It will involve a few very simple changes to your mod, and not too much work in EE either.

No glitch, this will change eventually in your game as you play the mod.

This is in the readme file. <_<
Please read the read me file, as I will not be giving elaborate answers (or maybe any answers)
to any questions that are answered in the read me file. (I am a little irritated right now, read text in RED below to see why).

Each time the mod finds a new bow ALL THE BOWS OF THE SAME BASE OBJECT are changed globally and then this data is stored in your next save.
However this will take game time to get all the bows and changes will leave your game if the mod is removed.

All bows that NPC use to fight you are changed fairly quickly as are the bows you use in combat.
So this mod peculiarity is not an issue for combat.

Anyway I am not able to play the #@%& Bioshock 2 because of an install issue. SAME %$#& that Bioshock 1 had!
At no time their installer asked for the security code, the game is installed but without the serial number from the box. So then the game shuts down!

SO I have to wait until the &%$# 2K game company puts out a patch for it.
There is NO tech support yet, "coming" soon they say...they release the game without tech support on their web page. :banghead:
I paid $80 for thier a disk and thier stratagy guide.
I do not understand why it is legal for them to do this and NOT be required to return my money at th point of sale!
In the mean time I am back working on this mod.

Right now I am trying to add to the script to make arrows bounce off the player armor if the arrow is too slow.
This ONLY happens when the NPC uses a slow arrow as they ALWAYS draw their bows all the way before they let an arrow loose.
And only if the arrow hits a location with armor.

And Critical hits will also effect the player now, but this will be very optional!

Right on each point!

Haven't tried this version yet, but here's my take on what the mod sounds like. (Note: In some cases I'd really appreciate if you made the mod modular so I can keep using it with my favorite mods.)


Awesome.

I'm using a mod that probably does this better: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13879. It gives you a chance to stagger/trip when your fatigue is low, you run backwards, or both; I believe it takes obstacles into account; it reduces your total available fatigue depending on your health and encumbrance, reduces fatigue when running, etc...
Use with Realistic Health for best effect.

For inspiration, you might also want to take a look at the options http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25533 offers, in particular:

• No running with an arrow nocked. (Allows running with arrow nocked if your marksman skill is high enough)
  
• No moving backwards with arrow nocked
  
• Chance of stagger from enemies attacking you at short range.

Sounds like it can add a lot of strategy to the game.

I'm using kuertee's http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23062, which could be an alternative or be complimentary... the point being that weapons do a lot of damage when wielded by experts.

Sounds good if it works as advertised. Marksman challenge has a "knock off" feature when enemies get too close, but it can be annoying as it seems to trigger even through walls.


Sounds very cool and innovative (I hope all those scripts don't crash the game or slow it down, though...)


Cobl now includes a denock function that works the opposite as yours (use z to denock) and works perfect. Maybe make yours modular? I don't wanna see what happens when both systems trigger at the same time.

Really cool and innovative too, NPCs with arrows sticking out all over them were really ridiculous (even though with the high-damage bows, they'll have less).

Can NPCs still fire their bow without problem if you're melee-attacking them? The last Vampire Archers I dealt with were a b**** to kill in that regard, since they only needed three arrows to bring me down, and there was no way I could block their shots or prevent them from firing.

Gabba-

A lot of points in there and not sure if your quoting Duke or Marksman challenge for some of it.

I believe Duke's mod would work better without Marksman Challenge - but that could be taste. He has already stated that he is OK with running backward while an arrow is knocked.

If your using Realistic Fatigue I'd turn off the tripping in one or the other but not have active in both.

The COBL Denock was actually authored by Duke and I've used it with this mod too. You can just use this mod and turn that off in the COBL options menu.

If using Kuertee Attribute Damage multiplier (and not Dukes Older SCA melee mod) then I would turn the bow damage scaling down to 1 and let that mod calc the damage formula.

If you get withing melee range of an archer they will switch to melee even if using Duke Patrick's Actor Can Miss Now. That is so even from the vanilla game.

I've notived no lag from the scripts.