Cool ... sorry no comments my install has been giving me massive grief right now.

Especially after updating to OBSE 18b6 - now just massive transition crashes. Already ruled your mods out.

Thinking of reinstall/new game ... simpler.

I'll be looking forward to 1.7

Shooting at the legs? Evil...yet clever idea.

You would be surprised how difficult this actually is to accomplish.

I have had to squeeze every little trick I know from my brain to get this to work.

It at first seems like an easy thing (hey just move the arrow down to leg level right?)
But in reality there are NUMEROUS details that make this a tricky thing.

For example, I had to find a way to get the game engine to ignore the arrow when it got within 2 feet of the player and the player was blocking. The game will grab the arrow out of the air even at knee level and "block it" if the player is facing the arrow and performing a block.

This was not an issue for the NPC because in vanilla Oblivion they (unlike the Player Character) do not actually block incoming arrows. They do with my mod but it is an illusion using animations and arrow reference slight of hand.

So allowing the player to hit the NPC legs was as easy and NOT allowing my script to "bounce" the arrows off the NPC shield
when the player was aiming for the legs.

Anyway, I am still tweaking my system for this but I think I have got it pinned down now.

I had a scare tonight, my PC flipped out again and would not boot into windows.
I had not backed up all my work for the last 2 days yet!

I finally got windows to boot up after a few hours of blood sweat and tears, then I backed up my files immediately!

So if I disappear from the forums for a few days it will be because I am reloading a new PC with all my software!
I cannot wait to get rid of this $@#& PC, I spent a fortune on it and it has given me trouble from the day I got it.
This PC is like a tornado, it is fast as a bat out of hell but it leaves a mess (on the hard drive) behind it!

I think it is a bad motherboard because I have replaced everything else in the PC.

When exactly did you upgrade to 18b6?

Ouch, that svcks.

Something that can come in handy in case of a crash like that is a Linux LiveCD (like the Ubuntu LiveCD). You can use that to boot your computer without affecting the hard drive, and backup your files to an external hard drive or usb thumbdrive before attempting to fix Windows. It's a good first reaction, since sometimes Windows not booting can mean your hard drive is starting to fail.
The Ubuntu LiveCD is easy to use, too: click the menu item corresponding to your hard drive to open it in a new window; plug in your external hard drive and a window appears with its contents. Then you can drag-and-drop or copy/paste files from one window to another just like in Windows.

Oh within the last 3 days I updated. I posted an issue about the nGCD issues I was having when uninstalling your archery mod. http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1049541&view=findpost&p=15668725 and http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1071809&view=findpost&p=15668736

The nGCD error went away (so far), but then so did the stability - of course could coincidental - just discovered a known issue (on my system) that could have been contributing: STEAM wanted to update and was not able to for some reason. But next exploring removing LOD files and taking out more mods that I've already completed.

Had to walk away for a few days and play other games - can be very frustrating as you know.

Good luck on your end too.

Loving this mod so far.

One thing really strange, though:
When I load a save, the mod disables player controls for so long I lose patience and quit the game to go do something else.

Rev (1.7) Now on TesNexus for uploading.

Get it here:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29831

I improved all the scripts. I finally found a way to get the arrow RIGHT UP AGAINST THE NPC OR PLAYER before it bounces away! Now the arrow will not bounce 2 feet in front of the PC or NPC. I also fixed a few small bugs and now the player will be able to bounce arrows from their shield depending on the opponent's fatigue and bow strength compared to the players block and fatigue.

If you allow it in the INI file, NPC will sometimes aim under your shield at your lower legs to try to get a critical hit. The tricks in the script for this was very tricky and time consuming, but the AI for WHEN the NPC tries to do this is very simple at this time, but I will work on this for later revisions.

I want to take as much of the "dice roll" out of the decisions as I can to make it as much of an evaluation of the battle conditions as I can...eventualy.

Did you also see the words "duke Patrick's combat archery mod is booting up..." ?
Did this go away and the controls did not come on-line or did this message stay on your screen as well?

Normally this Boot up process only takes a few seconds and only happens the first time you start up the mod.
Most often the cause of this issue is that the INI file was not put in the data folder with the ESP, or the INI is corrupt.

But it is also possible that another mod is attempting to change the bows NAME "on the fly" and is conflicting with my mod.

There is a bow in the CS that must be renamed with the symbol {} before the mod can finish the boot up.
If this bow name is being changed (taking away my {} symbol) by another mod this would put the boot up in a endless loop.

New revision may be ready in a week.

This is what I would like to see in the next revisions IF (if if if) it works out:

NPC archers will not (or at least will do so FAR LESS) shoot their fiends in the back!

I have already done this in my Hammer-blade mod for "SCA" faction archers. So this should not be much trouble.
I may need to release a new revison of the Hammer-blade mod to be compatible with this mod however.

Also, TheNiceOne is patiently and graciously working with me to make his Enhanced Economy's mod compatible with my mod and to greatly improve the way my mods applies changes to the bows and arrows using arrays and some of the new OBSE 18 programing style language.
This new stuff should make the weapons change over much much faster now AND the gold value issue will no longer be a problem.
Your old gold values will return when you uninstall the mod (But only if you are a new user of the mod.)

This is new programer style language ---> :slap: <---This is me!

Duke Patrick's Combat Archery Mod Version 1.8 Summery
Now on TesNexus for uploading.

Get it here:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29831


THANKS TO
TheNiceOne He wrote the code in this mod that handles the arrays. This was to fix the bow and arrow gold values getting stuck in the save game issue.

IMPORTANT Uninstall Directions
------------------------------
If you want to reset your gold value prices on bows and arrows before you unstill the mod, you must set aaDPSCABOWSWAYquest.NoPriceChange to 1 in the ini file.

Then you load your save game, and wait/play for at least 10 seconds. Then save and uninstall the mod. If you uninstall without first saving with NoPriceChange set to 1, the price changes made by this mod will be stuck in your saved games.
Note this will only work for new users of this mod. If you are not a new user, you will need to load an old save game that was made before the mod was installed.


NPC Now Try Not To Shoot Their Friends
--------------------------------------
However if their friends jump in the way of an on coming arrow (such as in side stepping) or if the NPC is a very bad shot and their arrows veer off more than they intended friends may still be hit by arrows! However the NPC now have a very special AI system to help them avoid dishing out friendly fire.

Player can now "turtle" behind their shield.
-----------------------------------------------------
If the player holds up a shield (active block) and they sit in the crouch position (sneak mode) and they neither move forward or backward or left or right, the NPC will find it almost impossible to hit your legs.


Improved NPC AI
-----------------------
I have added to the NPC AI to encourage them to move away from the player when crowded. But this AI is still not as good as the player at slipping away from the crowding.


Less Arrow Pin Cushions
----------------------
You will see the arrow get knock to the ground at the appropriate moments in combat. Note: This was taken out, as of rev 1.8, and will return in a later version.

I will be out of town for a few days. So I may not be posting for that long.

Thanks for the new version. I have downloaded it

Some comments about the NoRepriceChange setting: You can very well have this mod installed and in use with this set to 1. That will just prevent any changes to bow/arrow prices, and to the bows' health. Setting it to 1 after having had it at zero for some time, will make all bow/arrow prices revert to what they were when you installed this.

Another advantage of the arrays is that any bow/arrow that have previously been detected by the mod, will instantly be readjusted after a savegame load. The name change and stat change don't get stored in the savegame, so with previous versions, bows/arrows not in your inventory would had to be detected individually for each new Oblivion session.

Anyway, those things are just a small detail in this mod that do a lot to make archery really interesting, so great work :foodndrink:

Hi Spookyfx, I'm using version 1.8 of this mod and I literary stumbled on an issue using Realistic Fatigue and your Combat Archery mod together.
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=969750&view=findpost&p=15714520

Basicly, when I run backwards and I stumble (not your running backwards RISK, but the stumble feature of Realistic Fatigue) my speed attribute doesn't get restored to it's normal value but remains at about -20(-80). disabling the RF stumble feature fixes the problem.
What could cause this?

Did you forget to turn the "reduce speed" feature OFF in the INI file?

IF you allowed this to run in the INI and tired to use another mod that dose the same thing then yes, you would have issues.

Hello spooky,

once again thx for your hard work to make Oblivion much worth experiencing!

Today I found this:
Compatibility patches for Duke Patricks SCA Combat Archery on TESNexus.

Is this still necessary with DPCA 1.8.1 and MMM37b5 and OOO 1.34b5 ??

Pls help. :confused:

No don't use those.

They were made by another author long ago way back before duke added scripting to adjust the weapon stats dynamically in game. They were like MOBS patches - except Duke patches.

Not needed and would probably cause issues if used.

How have people been incorporating this into the FCOM / MOBS world?

I'm not all too knowledgeable about the intricate details of how MOBS rebalancing works, or how the FCOM archery adjustments affect the game. I read the description and readme for Duke's latest mod, and I'm currently using (and loving it) but I can't help feel like I'm missing out somewhere on balance issues with my FCOM version of the game.


Anyone have adjustments they would recommend, or am I fine using the defaults? Should I disable FCOM archery, or is having Duke's load last (even after bash patch, according to the latest BOSS) going to give me all the correct settings?

Thanks much.

Duke's Combat Archery is load order independent, so it doesn't matter where you load it, you'll still get exactly the same result, and the result is:

1. When you start Oblivion, mods like MOBS mods and FCOM archery rebalances the stats of (vanilla + FCOM) bows. Especially FCOM archery makes the bows way more deadly.
2. When you load a savegame, Duke Patricks' Combat Archery starts modifying the stats of your bows, based on their current value (thus affected by normal weapon stat changers), and based on the damage multiplier in its ini file. So if you have MOBS rebalancing and/or FCOM archery and keep Combat Archery's default damage multiplier (of 7 IIRC), you get really, really, REALLY deadly bows.

Since you probably don't want this, you must choose: Either uninstall mods that change bow stats, or reduce Combat Archery's damage multiplier in the ini file. There are advantages/disadvantages to both:

* Keeping MOBS/FCOM Archery and reducing (maybe all the way to 1) Combat Archery's damage multiplier, gives you the damage you're used to, and you get settings that are individually fine-tuned per bow.
* Removing MOBS/FCOM Archery and using Combat Archery's damage multiplier gives you better control of bow damage (too much?, reduce it from 7 to 5), and it works on all bows from all mods.

I'm not really sure which option I'm going to choose myself yet. I still have both Combat Archery's and FCOM Archery installed, but haven't got around to really play yet.

Sorry, still investigating...

NiceOne-

Really if I were you I'd remove FCOM Archery. I've removed all the MOBS stuff from FCOM except what cannot be removed from OOO. You'll find the variances that Duke's mods create are more than just the damage stats but also the quality of the bow which his mods highlight and make a big factor.

You could find a bow with a good enchantment but the quality stinks, but the next black bow you find might be a hardier bow that lasts long and punches an impact.

FCOM even the independent archery mods will not attain the levels of damage and immersion that Duke will provide. Even the highest FCOM and you still get pincushioning of enemies where you hit them many times.

take the plunge

sigh....yes...Psymon is correct, AND this is all in the read me file under the REQUIREMENTS:


REQUIREMENTS
------------------------

Be sure to load the INI file in the same directory as the ESP file.

OBSE 18 or better needed.

If you have used the old "Duke Patrick SCA Combat Archery" mod before YOU MUST DO A CLEAN INSTALL on this mod.

Do NOT use any "Duke Patrick" BOW and ARROW compatibility patches with this mod. All bows and arrows from other mods are automatically adjusted on the fly.

Actually, this mod's change to the bow health and price are the two features I'm sure I will not use Partly because IMHO that feature rather removes variance than adds it.

I just don't see any advantage in all bows having health (durability) and price set to exactly 3x its damage, compared to vanilla's varied health. Look at the three vanilla bows with damage 10, where the numbers are weight, health, price, damage.

Fine Steel Bow 	9.0 	158 	60 	10Silver Bow 	12.0 	180 	55 	10Black Bow* 	8.0 	200 	70 	10

With Combat Archery's default bowscale of 7, their damage is increased to 70. If the health and price change is enabled, their health and price changes to 210 (3xdamage), making the only difference between the bows being their weight. I really don't see any advantage to setting all three bow's health to 210 instead of 158, 180 and 200 respectively, especially since it has the additional disadvantage of messing with the repair status of the bows in my inventory when a savegame is loaded. But fortunately, this feature can be turned off individually, while everything else in this great mod is enabled

I am just not sure that I think the game will be better if the damage is increased more than FCOM with FCOM Archery does. But I appreciate the adjustable damage multiplier with this mod. Most likely I will keep FCOM and FCOM archery, and a Combat Archery bow damage multiplier of 2 or so, thereby knowing that the FCOM-added bows are balanced compared to the vanilla bows, but with somewhat more damage overall (twice) set by Combat Archery.

Anyway, I think this mod is great, and if as good as it seems (I haven't got around to actually play much lately), a real must have. I'm just a bit unsure about how much more damage I want the bows to have, and quite sure I don't much like the health and price change. But everything else is great :foodndrink:

Certainly it is about play-style. I, myself, do not appreciate having to hit a medium level opponent multiple times with an arrow (dead on too) and they shrug it off - at that point why even dodge?

But I like immersive combat and sine I still use the older SCA melee combat the higher damage compliments that mod, so it fits with my load order and play style.

Too much pincushion makes the game arcade and console like ... kinda like having a character who never needs sleep or to eat or drink

to each their own.

We there are several reasons I did this (such as the weight and strength relationship in non-modern materials) in the mod for combat balance, but the bottom line is that doing it your way means no one would ever use the less durable bow that can burst sooner but has the same damage as the stronger bow. If you are a smart player you would only use the bow with the maximum stats. :shrug:

There is a very serious consideration with the bow damage and durability hard coded in the games engine.

The more damage the bow applies to the arrow the more damage is applied to the bow when the arrow is fired. So you if pump up the bow damage but do not adjust the bow health proportionally you will have a bow that will burst on you in only a few shots.

As I said my changes were for combat balance.

Now if there were a huge difference in the weighs of the bows that might make it worth considering a ridiculously low durability bow over a high durability bow that does the same damage. But that is not the case. Sure this could be moded as well, but a huge difference in weight from a steel bow verses a silver bow is "not" immersive.

The only mistake I made here is not explaining this in the read me file. I need to do this for the next update.

To make this clear turning off the pricing for the bows does not (should not) turn off the health balancing. Health for bows is not x3, it should be in proportion with the damage multiplier. If I am wrong about that I need to change this but I thought that is how I wrote the script. Otherwise I would have players complaining that the bows are bursting too easily too soon. I do not see an easy way around this, but you know my script well enough to change this for your own personal use I guess, as long as you understand now what the repercussions will be.

Is it possible to use both this mod and Deadly Reflex - Breathing motion, Head Bobbing and Bow Sway (the latter part)? They both seem to introduce a chance to miss depending on player's skills, but the latter one has a cool visualization of that chance through actual bow swaying. Wouldn't using both of these mods double one's chances to miss?